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  • FIRST POST
    • Kayleigh1988
    • By Kayleigh1988 16th Dec 19, 7:03 PM
    • 20Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Kayleigh1988
    Residents permit fell in private car park
    • #1
    • 16th Dec 19, 7:03 PM
    Residents permit fell in private car park 16th Dec 19 at 7:03 PM
    Hi all I am really hopping I can get some help here as it seems Google is abit of a minefield.
    Basically I live in a flat with a private car park and my permit fell and landed upside down. (typical.)
    Received a letter and appealed explaining the situation thinking that as I am a resident with a permit they would be understanding, how wrong was I. Appeal refused.. So I have opened a case through the ias. So I have a few points I have brought up with them so far the fact that I am a tenant being the first. Parking is not included in my tanancy it just says some basic stuff like I must not park in a way to cause obstruction and my car must be taxed etc, nor does it mention anything about requiring a permit.
    I have also brought up a point that the permits are not labelled which way up they need to be (I know it's obvious) but who are they to assume they I know what way the right way is.
    Lastly I have said that the permits are not fit for purpose or supplied as advertised as they state in a letter sent with the permit that they are designed in a way that will stick to the windscreen, however mine didn't a fell off hense we are here now.
    Lastly I asked them for proof they were allowed to ticket on the land as I have not seen any evidence e to this affect.

    I have just received their response through ias and now I have hit a wall. Do I just pay the fine am I going to have bailiffs at my door or my car clamped. I can't afford hundreds of pounds in fines or late payment fees and it seems its easier to just pay the 100 now here's the catch as I received another ticket 2 days later where they haven't even bothered to take a picture of my permit just of my wind screen at an angle where u can see just the corner of the permit so its now 200 worth if parking fines.

    I have just recieved atest response

    It is appreciated that the appellant may have parked in a bay that is allocated to their property. However, the terms require a permit to be displayed at all times. By receiving and accepting this permit (and having shown an intention to comply with the terms of the permit), the appellant has indicated a consent to the parking scheme, which is, in part, for their benefit. In taking this benefit (i.e. in having the parking bay managed), the appellant must accept their part to play, which was to simply display a permit and park in the appropriate bay.

    The appellant has alleged that the operator does not have the required authority to operate on this site. The charge arises from a contractual relationship, the terms of which are stipulated by the signs. It will be noted that we, as the operator, are a principal (not an agent) in this contract. This site has been audited by the IPC and a copy of the landowner's authority has been provided to them as part of the audit process. However, whilst we maintain that we do, in fact, have the authority of the landowner to operate upon this site (being the principal in the contract); the existence of this document has no legal bearing on the contract with the motorist. See Vehicle Control Services v HMRC [2013] EWCA Civ 186, para 22 per Lewison LJ.As this is a commercially sensitive document, and is irrelevant to the issues at hand, this is not provided as evidence in this appeal.

    The PCN was issued for failing to display a valid parking permit. It is necessary that the permit be clearly and properly displayed in order that all the information pertaining the permit is visible. If it is not then how are we to establish that the bay is being appropriately used & that the permit is valid? If a driver displays a permit then it their responsibility to ensure that it is displayed according to the terms and conditions by which it is issued.


    Thanks in advance
Page 2
    • Kayleigh1988
    • By Kayleigh1988 18th Dec 19, 9:04 PM
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    Kayleigh1988
    Yes that the sign thank you but it's not come out very clear but there is a couple of those around the car park
    • Kayleigh1988
    • By Kayleigh1988 18th Dec 19, 9:05 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Kayleigh1988
    You guys are good here
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 18th Dec 19, 9:09 PM
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    Fruitcake
    Yes that the sign thank you but it's not come out very clear but there is a couple of those around the car park
    Originally posted by Kayleigh1988
    That's all very well, but if permits, paying charges to the scammers, or being taken to court by the scammers isn't mentioned in your lease/AST then it is not worth the tin plate upon which it is writ.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Kayleigh1988
    • By Kayleigh1988 18th Dec 19, 9:19 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Kayleigh1988
    This is great news as I'm so relieved and so will some of my neighbours be to hear this, I guess I'm going to get some bully boy letters next??
    If I have visitors who get tickets will theirs stand as they don't have a tenancy?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 18th Dec 19, 10:12 PM
    • 19,592 Posts
    • 24,987 Thanks
    KeithP
    Trading Standards might be interested to see that:

    a) they use an 0845 telephone number without explaining charges, and

    b) they charge 5 extra if paying by credit card.

    Since January 2018, merchants have been forbidden from charging extra for different payment methods.

    See this MSE News article:
    Credit and debit card charges banned from Saturday - what you need to know
    .
    • Kayleigh1988
    • By Kayleigh1988 19th Dec 19, 7:21 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Kayleigh1988
    Will be calling trading standards up today!!
    • Kayleigh1988
    • By Kayleigh1988 19th Dec 19, 9:46 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Kayleigh1988
    Just spoke to C.A and they told me you don't have to advertise charges made by 0845 number as this can vary depending on your survive provider
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 19th Dec 19, 9:56 AM
    • 8,697 Posts
    • 8,595 Thanks
    DoaM
    You don't have to advertise what the charges will be, but you DO have to declare that calls to the number will likely be subject to additional charges by your service provider.

    Consumer Advice aren't always correct.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Kayleigh1988
    • By Kayleigh1988 19th Dec 19, 1:51 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Kayleigh1988
    so now do i just wait and see what comes next? If i pester the housing association is there anything they can do?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Dec 19, 2:03 AM
    • 80,686 Posts
    • 95,218 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes, the HA can make the scammers cancel PCNs. They should not let PCM near your cars. Ideas on how to word a proper complaint about PCM, here:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5997200

    Get PCM removed by getting other residents together and complaining en masse.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Kayleigh1988
    • By Kayleigh1988 21st Dec 19, 10:39 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Kayleigh1988
    HA have been in contact with Pcm and have called me back and said my tickets both still stand ��
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Dec 19, 5:31 PM
    • 80,686 Posts
    • 95,218 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    They just gave in to PCM then? Useless. The HA is able to cancel them.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Ian011
    • By Ian011 23rd Dec 19, 2:40 PM
    • 2,355 Posts
    • 1,501 Thanks
    Ian011
    Just spoke to C.A and they told me you don't have to advertise charges made by 0845 number as this can vary depending on your survice provider
    Originally posted by Kayleigh1988
    C A are incorrect.

    This page explains the Ofcom regulation (known as the "Condition binding non-providers") in force since 1 July 2015

    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/advice/uk-calling/uk-calling-for-businesses

    The charges must be stated immediately alongside the number. Missing call charge statements should be reported to ASA.

    https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/non-geographic-call-charges.html
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 23rd Dec 19, 2:50 PM
    • 41,853 Posts
    • 92,767 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    HA have been in contact with Pcm and have called me back and said my tickets both still stand ��
    Originally posted by Kayleigh1988
    So ask them for the name and address of the HA member who will be attending court as a witness pursuant to Section 33 of the Civil Court Procedures for Miscellaneous Rules About Evidence.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Kayleigh1988
    • By Kayleigh1988 10th Jan 20, 10:20 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Kayleigh1988
    so quick update, IAS appeal rejected on one haven't bother with IAS on the second.
    Signs have been reported but I have been informed that they don't actually charge the 5 for credit card payments and the signs are allowed to be out of date on this information.
    Are my next steps to just sit and wait for a court date?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 10th Jan 20, 10:53 AM
    • 6,253 Posts
    • 8,277 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Your next steps are as ever outlined in the newbies thread!
    If you ever have a query about ANY part of this whole PPC scam, go there.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Jan 20, 11:51 AM
    • 16,399 Posts
    • 17,339 Thanks
    The Deep
    Signs have been reported but I have been informed that they don't actually charge the 5 for credit card payments and the signs are allowed to be out of date on this information.

    I would check with Trading Standards as I very much doubt that this is the case. If a sign is out of date how can it form a contract?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Kayleigh1988
    • By Kayleigh1988 14th Jan 20, 6:52 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Kayleigh1988
    This was reply from trading standards-

    I made some enquiries about the sign and the company. The sign states that ‘all automated telephone payments are subject to a 1.00 administration fee’ and the payment line 0845 number is used for this automated payment. However surcharge payment (in this case 5 payment) for credit card payment has been banned since January 2018.



    I understand that they have updated their system. Although these old signs state there is a charge (5), and they don’t charge consumers for using their credit cards except 1 for the automated payment.

    They also updated their tickets and web site and they will change their old signs gradually but this may take time.
    • Ian011
    • By Ian011 15th Jan 20, 11:16 AM
    • 2,355 Posts
    • 1,501 Thanks
    Ian011
    If they already have a 1 telephone administration charge, there is no reason for them to be using a premium rate telephone number that imposes an additional Service Charge on callers. In doing so, they are effectively double charging all callers.
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