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  • FIRST POST
    • Cw1979
    • By Cw1979 6th Dec 19, 10:43 PM
    • 43Posts
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    Cw1979
    PCN unauthorised by land management
    • #1
    • 6th Dec 19, 10:43 PM
    PCN unauthorised by land management 6th Dec 19 at 10:43 PM
    Hello,

    I really can't see an example of my case anywhere. If I don't pay the PCN tomorrow, Excel Parking will pursue a case against me in court.

    Details-
    March 2016
    Private car park for block of flats (A).
    Parking Company hired to look over 5 of spaces belonging to another block of flats (B) in the same car park.
    Parking Company puts up sign in wrong area (area not belong to Flats B but to Flats A)
    Parking Company issues PCN to car belonging to resident of Flat A next to the wrongly placed sign.
    Management company of Flats A is informed in the morning (PCN issued around 10pm), they say they have not given permission to Parking Company and sign is taken down soon afterwards when Managing company inform them.
    3 years later- I receive Letter of Claim at my new address. I ask for evidence. Photos are at night, but I take picture of their contacted spaces now and prove I was not in them.
    Parking Company say claim still going ahead as they have evidence of the sign to the side of my car.
    I explain it was it was there without permission and was taken down and remains down. No answer from Parking Company.
    I get managing company of flats to email Parking Company confirming my statement and saying there was no breach of contact as there was no contract.
    Over the phone, parking company says the email does not prove that the managing company is responsible for the space I was parked in, but they will forward the email to 'new business'.

    Can somebody please tell where I stand on this? Should I just pay when the small claims court papers arrive? Or fight it?

    Please help. Thank you in advance.
Page 4
    • Egbert Nobacon
    • By Egbert Nobacon 13th Jan 20, 10:56 PM
    • 393 Posts
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    Egbert Nobacon
    They must have provided photos of the signs they are relying on.

    If they are Excel signs they will surely struggle.

    Also, where is the long abuse of process detail in your defence ?
    • Cw1979
    • By Cw1979 14th Jan 20, 2:38 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Cw1979
    KeithP as I mentioned above, the signs and claim form are both VCS. They are just replying from an Excel email address.
    • Cw1979
    • By Cw1979 14th Jan 20, 2:54 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Cw1979
    I wanted to include the 'abuse of process' but was unable to locate the thread. I know it should be easy, but some reason it isn't for me. So it's my own for fault for being incompetent if it's not included. Unless an easy way to locate it can be suggested.

    Apart from that, would it be ok to send?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Jan 20, 3:08 PM
    • 41,885 Posts
    • 92,827 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    You really should include the abuse of process defence point.

    Use Forum Search, Advanced Search using those exact words above with beamerguy as the User Name, and set to Show Posts.

    Read it all but the part you want to include is in post 14, written by C-m.

    You really should do the complaints especially to the DVLA as their response will help with your case, and possibly even stop it or at least slow it down.

    For KADOE complaints,

    KADOEservice.support@dvla.gov.uk

    For data mishandling complaints,

    datarelease.team@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

    https://ico.org.uk/make-a-complaint/your-personal-information-concerns/
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 14-01-2020 at 3:20 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 14th Jan 20, 3:13 PM
    • 8,723 Posts
    • 8,616 Thanks
    DoaM
    That thread is always within the first few pages of this forum, but quickly goes off the first page because this forum is so busy.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Jan 20, 3:19 PM
    • 80,775 Posts
    • 95,442 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I wanted to include the 'abuse of process' but was unable to locate the thread. I know it should be easy, but some reason it isn't for me. So it's my own for fault for being incompetent if it's not included. Unless an easy way to locate it can be suggested.

    Apart from that, would it be ok to send?
    Originally posted by Cw1979
    I've just re-written a defence for someone this afternoon, where you can use the final half dozen points from it (change the 72 and 172 in THAT case, to 60 and 160 if your case has only had 60 falsely added to the parking charge).

    Read recent posts, find it and use that one!

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Egbert Nobacon
    • By Egbert Nobacon 14th Jan 20, 3:25 PM
    • 393 Posts
    • 750 Thanks
    Egbert Nobacon
    Just like that !



    The purported added 'costs' are disproportionate, a disingenuous double recovery attempt, vague and in breach of both the CPRs, and the Consumer Rights Act 2015 Schedule 2 'terms that may be unfair'.

    6. Alleging that the letters the parking firm sent have caused an additional loss, is simply untrue. The standard wording for parking charge/debt recovery contracts is/was on the Debt Recovery Plus website - ''no recovery/no fee'', thus establishing an argument that the Claimant is breaching the indemnity principle - claiming reimbursement for a cost which has never, in fact, been incurred. This is true, whether or not they used a third party debt collector during the process.

    7. The Defendant has the reasonable belief that the Claimant has not incurred an additional 60 in damages or costs to pursue an alleged 100 debt. The arbitrary addition of a fixed sum purporting to cover 'damages/costs' is also potentially open to challenge as an unfair commercial practice under the CPRs, where 44.3 (2) states: ''Where the amount of costs is to be assessed on the standard basis, the court will –
    (a) only allow costs which are proportionate to the matters in issue. Costs which are disproportionate in amount may be disallowed or reduced even if they were reasonably or necessarily incurred; and
    (b) resolve any doubt which it may have as to whether costs were reasonably and proportionately incurred or were reasonable and proportionate in amount in favour of the paying party.

    7.1. Whilst quantified costs can be considered on a standard basis, this Claimant's purported added 60 'damages/costs' are wholly disproportionate, are not genuine losses at all and do not stand up to scrutiny. This has finally been recognised in many court areas. Differently from almost any other trader/consumer agreement, when it comes to parking charges on private land, binding case law and two statute laws have the effect that the parking firm's own business/operational costs cannot be added to the 'parking charge' as if they are additional losses.

    The Beavis case is against this Claim
    8. Parking Eye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 ('the Beavis case') is the authority for recovery of the parking charge itself and no more, since that sum (85 in the Beavis case) was held to already incorporate the costs of an automated private parking business model including recovery letters. There are no losses or damages caused by this business model and the Supreme Court Judges held that a parking firm not in possession cannot plead any part of their case in damages. It is indisputable that an alleged 'parking charge' penalty is a sum which the Supreme Court found is already inflated to more than comfortably cover all costs. The case provides a finding of fact by way of precedent, that the 85 (or up to a Trade Body ceiling of 100 depending upon the parking firm) covers the costs of the letters.

    8.1. This charge is unconscionable and devoid of any 'legitimate interest', given the facts. To quote from the decision in the Beavis case at Para [108]: ''But although the terms, like all standard contracts, were presented to motorists on a take it or leave it basis, they could not have been briefer, simpler or more prominently proclaimed. If you park here and stay more than two hours, you will pay 85''. Ad at [199]: ''What matters is that a charge of the order of 85 [...] is an understandable ingredient of a scheme serving legitimate interests.''

    8.2. In the Beavis case it was said at para [205]: ''The requirement of good faith in this context is one of fair and open dealing. Openness requires that the terms should be expressed fully, clearly and legibly, containing no concealed pitfalls or traps. Appropriate prominence should be given to terms which might operate disadvantageously to the customer.''

    8.3. At para 98. {re ...The desirability of running that parking scheme at no cost, or ideally some profit, to themselves} ''Against this background, it can be seen that the 85 charge had two main objects. One was to manage the efficient use of parking space in the interests of the retail outlets, and of the users of those outlets who wish to find spaces in which to park their cars [...] The other purpose was to provide an income stream to enable ParkingEye to meet the costs of operating the scheme and make a profit from its services...''

    8.4. At para 193. ''Judging by ParkingEye’s accounts, and unless the Chelmsford car park was out of the ordinary, the scheme also covered ParkingEye's costs of operation and gave their shareholders a healthy annual profit.'' and at para 198: ''The charge has to be and is set at a level which enables the managers to recover the costs of operating the scheme. It is here also set at a level enabling ParkingEye to make a profit.''

    The POFA 2012 and the ATA Code of Practice are against this Claim
    9. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 ('the POFA') at paras 4(5) and 4(6) makes it clear that the will of Parliament regarding parking on private land is that the only sum potentially able to be recovered is the sum in any compliant 'Notice to Keeper' (further, the ceiling for a 'parking charge', as set by the Trade Bodies and the DVLA, is 100). This also depends upon the Claimant fully complying with the statute, including 'adequate notice' of the parking charge and prescribed documents served in time/with mandatory wording. It is submitted the claimant has failed on all counts and the Claimant is well aware their artificially inflated claim, as pleaded, constitutes double recovery.

    The Consumer Rights Act 2015 ('the CRA') is against this claim
    10. Further, the purported added 'costs' are disproportionate, vague and in breach of the CRA 2015 Schedule 2 'terms that may be unfair'. This Claimant has arbitrarily added an extra 60% of the parking charge in a disingenuous double recovery attempt that has already been exposed and routinely disallowed by many Courts in England and Wales. It is atrocious that this has been allowed to continue unabated for so many years, considering the number of victims receiving this Claimant's exaggerated Letter before Claim, or the claim form, who then either pay an inflated amount or suffer a default judgment for a sum that could not otherwise be recovered. It is only those who defend, who draw individual cases to the attention of the courts one by one, but at last in 2019, some areas noticed the pattern and have moved to stop this abuse of process at source.

    10.1. In the Caernarfon Court in Case number F2QZ4W28 (Vehicle Control Services Ltd v Davies) on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated: ''Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones-Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates [...] in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for 60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court in Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of 160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued he would treat all cases as a claim for 160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared [...] the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.''

    10.2. That decision in Wales was contested in a N244 application by VCS, but the added 60 was still disallowed on 30 Oct 2019. District Judge Jones-Evans stated that even in cases parking firms win, he never allows the 60 add on, and despite parking firms continuing to include it in their Particulars, most advocates have now stopped pushing for it at hearings. The Judge said that a contract formed by signage is a deemed contract, which the motorist does not have the opportunity to negotiate. That, and the fact that there is no specified sum on the signage, means that the extra 60 cannot possibly be recoverable. He said that the 60 was clearly a penalty, and an abuse of process. The considered sum in that case was reduced to 100 with a full case hearing to follow, but the 60 would not be awarded under any circumstances, and further, he ordered that the Claimant must now produce a statement of how they pleaded claims prior to Beavis, and subsequently.

    10.3. In Claim numbers F0DP806M and F0DP201T - BRITANNIA PARKING -v- Mr C and another - less than two weeks later - the courts went further in a landmark judgment in November 2019 which followed several parking charge claims being struck out in the area overseen by His Honour Judge Iain Hamilton-Douglas Hughes QC, the Designated Civil Judge for Dorset, Hampshire, Isle of Wight & Wiltshire.

    10.3.1. Cases summarily struck out in that circuit included BPA members using BW Legal's robo-claim model and IPC members using Gladstones' robo-claim model, and the Orders from that court were identical in striking out all such claims without a hearing during a prolonged period in 2019, with the Judge stating: ''It is ordered that The claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in the Beavis case. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''

    10.3.2. BW Legal made an application objecting to two 'test' cases that had been struck out by District Judge Taylor against a parking firm for trying to claim for 160 instead of 100 parking charge. This has been repeated conduct in recent years, on the back of the Beavis case, where parking firms have almost unanimously contrived to add 60, or more, on top of the 'parking charge'. Members of both ATAs who have influence on their self-serving 'Trade Bodies' have even voted to have this imaginary 'damages/debt collection' sum added to their respective two Codes of Practice, to create a veil of legitimacy, no doubt to allow their members to confuse consumers and to enable them to continue to 'get away with it' in several court areas which are still allowing this double recovery.

    10.3.3. That N244 application to try to protect the cartel-like position of some of the 'bigger player' parking firms, was placed before the area Circuit Judge and a hearing was held on 11th November 2019, with other parking charge cases in that circuit remaining struck out or stayed, pending the outcome. The Defendants successfully argued on points including a citation of the CRA 2015 and the duty of the court to apply the 'test of fairness' to a consumer notice (a statutory duty that falls upon the courts, whether a consumer raises the issue or not). All three points below were robustly upheld by District Judge Grand, sitting at the Southampton Court, who agreed that:
    (a) The Claimant knew or should have known, that 160 charge (howsoever argued or constructed) was in breach of POFA, due to paras 4(5) and 4(6).
    (b) The Claimant knew or should have known, that 160 charge (howsoever argued or constructed) was unconscionable, due to the Beavis case paras 98, 193, 198 and 287.
    (c) The Claimant knew or should have known, that 160 charge where the additional 'recovery' sum was in small print, hidden, or in the cases before him, not there at all, is void for uncertainty and in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2 (the 'grey list' of terms that may be unfair) paragraphs 6, 10 and 14.

    10.3.4. At the hearing, the Judge refused their request to appeal. It was successfully argued that the parking firm's consumer notice stood in breach of the CRA 2015, Schedule 2 (the 'grey list' of terms that may be unfair) paragraphs 6, 10 and 14. Using the statutory duty upon the Courts to consider the test of fairness and properly apply schedule 2 of the CRA 2015 it was irrelevant whether or not the consumers' defences had raised it before, which they had not. The same issues apply to this claim.

    10.3.5. A transcript will be publicly available shortly. In his summing up, it was noted that District Judge Grand stated: ''When I come to consider whether the striking out of the whole claim is appropriate, that the inclusion of the 60 charge means that the whole claim is tainted by it, the claimant should well know that it is not entitled to the 60. The very fact that they bring a claim in these circumstances seems to me that it is an abuse of process of the court, and in saying that, I observe that with any claim that can be brought before the court that if a party doesn't put in a defence to the claim, default judgments are entered. So, the Claimant, in bringing the claims is, in other cases, aware that if the defendant doesn’t submit a defence, the Claimant is going to get a judgment of a knowingly inflated amount. So I conclude by saying that I dismiss the application to set aside Judge Taylor’s ruling.''

    10.4. Consumer notices - such as car park signs - are not excused by the CRA 'core exemption'. The CMA Official Government Guidance to the CRA says: ''2.43 In addition, terms defining the main subject matter and setting the price can only benefit from the main exemption from the fairness test ('the core exemption') if they are transparent (and prominent) – see part 3 of the guidance.'' and at 3.2 ''The Act includes an exemption from the fairness test in Part 2 for terms that deal with the main subject matter of the contract or the adequacy of the price, provided they are transparent and prominent. (This exemption does not extend to consumer notices but businesses are unlikely to wish to use wording that has no legal force to determine 'core' contractual issues).'' The parking industry is the exception to this rule because they have no consumer 'customers' yet are consumer-facing. Their intention is very clearly in many cases (including this case) for a consumer not to see the onerous terms hidden in their notices and it is averred that no regard is paid to consumer law.

    10.5. The definition of a consumer notice is given at 1.19 and the test of fairness is expanded at 1.20: ''A consumer notice is defined broadly in the Act as a notice that relates to rights or obligations between a trader and a consumer, or a notice which appears to exclude or restrict a trader’s liability to a consumer. It includes an announcement or other communication, whether or not in writing, as long as it is reasonable to assume that it is intended to be seen or heard by a consumer. Consumer notices are often used, for instance, in public places such as shops or car parks as well as online and in documentation that is otherwise contractual in nature. [...] Consumer notices are, therefore, subject to control for fairness under the Act even where it could be argued that they do not form part of the contract as a matter of law. Part 2 of the Act covers consumer notices as well as terms, ensuring that, in a broad sense any wording directed by traders to consumers which has an effect comparable to that of a potentially unfair contract term is open to challenge in the same way as such a term. There is no need for technical legal arguments about whether a contract exists and whether, if it does, the wording under consideration forms part of it.''

    11. In December 2019 in a different Court circuit, Deputy District Judge Joseph sitting at Warwick County Court had clearly heard about the decisions affecting the IOW, Hampshire, Dorset and Wiltshire circuit because he summarily struck out multiple parking ticket claims from various firms all due to the adding of the false 60 costs to 100 parking charge, that already indisputably (in law and case law) includes those costs.

    11.1. The Judge determined that ''it is an abuse of process for the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover.'' further, in issuing his Orders striking out several 160 parking claims without a hearing, the Judge stated that he had ''considered S71(2) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 for the fairness of the contract terms and determined that the provision of the additional charge breached examples 6, 10 and 14''.

    12. In summary, the Claimant's particulars disclose no legal basis for the sum claimed and it is the Defendant's position that the poorly pleaded claim discloses no cause of action and no liability in law for any sum at all. The Claimant's vexatious conduct from the outset has been intimidating, misleading, harassing and indeed untrue in terms of the added costs alleged and the statements made.

    13. The Defendant is of the view that this Claimant knew or should have known that to claim in excess of 100 for a parking charge on private land is disallowed under the CPRs, the Beavis case, the POFA and the CRA 2015, and that relief from sanctions should be refused.

    14. If this claim is not summarily struck out for the same reasons as the Judges cited in the multiple Caernarfon, Southampton, IOW and Warwick County Court decisions, then due to this Claimant knowingly proceeding with a claim that amounts to an abuse of process, full costs will be sought by the Defendant at the hearing, such as are allowable pursuant to CPR 27.14.



    Statement of Truth:

    I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true.


    Name

    Signature


    Date


    IF THOSE PARAGRAPH NUMBERS DO NOT FIT IN SEQUENCE UNDER YOUR FIRST POINTS OF DEFENCE OR WITNESS STATEMENT, YOU MUST (OF COURSE) CHANGE THEM!
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Jan 20, 3:29 PM
    • 41,885 Posts
    • 92,827 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    The time now saved by having that defence point "oven ready" can be used for the very, very important complaints.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Cw1979
    • By Cw1979 14th Jan 20, 4:52 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Cw1979
    Having a bit if a panic. It's been 28 days since the issue date (17th Dec). I filed acknowledgment of service on Sunday 22nd Dec. A post said I had until 20th Jan to file defence. Have I understood that correctly or have I missed the deadline?
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 14th Jan 20, 4:55 PM
    • 8,027 Posts
    • 9,121 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Having a bit if a panic. It's been 28 days since the issue date (17th Dec). I filed acknowledgment of service on Sunday 22nd Dec. A post said I had until 20th Jan to file defence. Have I understood that correctly or have I missed the deadline?
    Originally posted by Cw1979
    KeithP posted this (your thread post # 36): -
    With a Claim Issue Date of 17th December, you have until Monday 6th January to file an Acknowledgment of Service. If possible, do not file an AoS before 23rd December, but otherwise there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To file an AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread. About ten minutes work - no thinking required.

    Having filed an AoS, you have until 4pm on Monday 20th January 2020 to file your Defence.
    • Cw1979
    • By Cw1979 14th Jan 20, 5:13 PM
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    Cw1979
    That is the post that I read. But I can't find the reason for it being more than 28 days. What I have read says 28 days from the claim date with no exceptions for bank holidays etc, when I looked this evening online.
    • Cw1979
    • By Cw1979 14th Jan 20, 5:58 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Cw1979
    Can anyone help with this? Very panicky now.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 14th Jan 20, 6:14 PM
    • 26,826 Posts
    • 35,098 Thanks
    Redx
    read your claim form , its 5 days from the issue date which gives you the date of service , plus 28 days due to you doing the AOS (doubled from 14 days to 28 days) = 33 days from the issue date on the claim form (its been there all along)

    no need to wonder, KeithP gave you the correct details in his post
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Cw1979
    • By Cw1979 14th Jan 20, 6:20 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Cw1979
    If I submit now, could I argue that no time of day was given for deadline of submission on claim form or on money claim online?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 14th Jan 20, 6:22 PM
    • 26,826 Posts
    • 35,098 Thanks
    Redx
    no , because the details are spelled out on their website and your claim form

    you appear to have until next monday to submit your defence , no idea why you are rushing or panicing , KeithP told you the deadline, MCOL never tell you the deadline , its your job to read the paperwork
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Cw1979
    • By Cw1979 14th Jan 20, 6:25 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Cw1979
    If so, where do I upload my defence online?

    Thank you in advance.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 14th Jan 20, 6:27 PM
    • 26,826 Posts
    • 35,098 Thanks
    Redx
    you dont , you need to read what KeithP posted earlier in this thread , he gave you exact instructions, if you are not going to read your paperwork and read the advice in this thread we are wasting our time


    it was post #36 and you thanked him for it on the 18 December 2019, so a few weeks ago
    Last edited by Redx; 14-01-2020 at 6:29 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 14th Jan 20, 6:30 PM
    • 19,628 Posts
    • 25,051 Thanks
    KeithP
    If I submit now, could I argue that no time of day was given for deadline of submission on claim form or on money claim online?
    Originally posted by Cw1979
    Why would you want to 'submit now'?

    As Redx says, all the information is in front of you... read your Claim Form. It's on the back.

    You do the sums. It is nothing more than simple arithmetic. You will find that you have until 4pm on Monday 20th January 2020 to file your Defence.

    I've written this once before on this thread...
    Do what you think best but I would strongly recommend following the guidance in post #36 above.
    It still applies.
    Last edited by KeithP; 14-01-2020 at 6:32 PM.
    .
    • Cw1979
    • By Cw1979 14th Jan 20, 6:33 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Cw1979
    I see it now. So sorry. Spiralled a bit there and literally couldn't read the words. Stupid anxiety causes your brain to stop working properly. So relieved. Thank you for your patience.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 14th Jan 20, 7:09 PM
    • 13,360 Posts
    • 19,230 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Can anyone help with this? Very panicky now.
    Originally posted by Cw1979
    I totally understand your thoughts

    But, you are not a criminal, you will not go to prison, you won't even get a CCJ

    You are going to beat these scammers. You are receiving the very best advice available, even a solicitor could not give you better advice ....... just remember you have some of the best brains on here ...... that is something the scammers don't have.
    Why, because they break the law with abuse of process.

    Even a barrister employed by BWLegal in Southampton was speechless when tackled by coupon-mad

    Get positive and no more jitters
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
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