Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Knight who says Ni
    • By Knight who says Ni 9th Oct 19, 12:23 PM
    • 19Posts
    • 20Thanks
    Knight who says Ni
    Euro Car Parks 'double-dip'
    • #1
    • 9th Oct 19, 12:23 PM
    Euro Car Parks 'double-dip' 9th Oct 19 at 12:23 PM
    In June I visited a supermarket managed by Euro Car Parks twice in one day. I was there for 5 minutes in the morning and 15 minutes in the evening. ECP claim I was there for the duration.

    I have proof that I wasn't - a GPS trace from my phone plotting my movements and locations, but I also have four witnesses, 2 family, 2 independent and a GPS tagged photograph.

    29.06 - date of the alleged offence

    05.07 - notice to keeper issued(didn't receive)
    saying payment of 70 to be made within 28 days, reduced to 40 if paid within 14 days.

    05.08 - final notice letter sent (didn't receive)
    discounted amount no longer available. Payment due within 28 days

    11.09 - received letter dated 06.09 from Debt Recovery Plus saying they were now dealing with them and the amount was now 130.00

    As soon as that letter received, a short telephone call to both ECP and DRP to establish correct addresses to write too. I sent a annotated map showing position I was at and when.

    I have since received a letter from ECP ignoring my evidence and told to pay DRP and not to write to them.

    I have received a letter from DRP, sent following the phone call but before receiving evidence.

    I have also written to the store manager but yet to receive a reply.

    Collective wisdom from MSE appreciated.
Page 2
    • Knight who says Ni
    • By Knight who says Ni 19th Nov 19, 1:08 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Knight who says Ni
    Yes I did, with scan of registration document.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 19th Nov 19, 1:33 PM
    • 8,009 Posts
    • 9,072 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Yes I did, with scan of registration document.
    Originally posted by Knight who says Ni
    Complaint time then!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Nov 19, 4:47 PM
    • 80,692 Posts
    • 95,221 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Put in a complaint 'concerns about the use of my data' using the ICO website, and upload proof that you sent a SAR, and when.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Knight who says Ni
    • By Knight who says Ni 2nd Jan 20, 6:33 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Knight who says Ni
    Finally received a letter in reply to my SAR request. Four pages of text, including copy of original PCN and higher resolution photos of first entry and second exit.

    However, the paragraph reproduced below says that other footage which would relate to first exit and second entry to have been deleted....

    So what to do?


    "Lastly you have made a request to obtain ANPR data from what you claim to be two seperate entries and visits to the car park. Please be advised that due to our Data Retention Policies, data which you have requested in only kept for 10 days, unless it relates to a Parking Charge Notice (PCN). Our records shiw that you have entered the car park at 11.53.49 hrs on 29/06 and left at 17:37.48 on 29/06. As you have overstayed the maximum period the Parking Charge Notice has been issued"
    • Redx
    • By Redx 2nd Jan 20, 6:37 PM
    • 26,776 Posts
    • 35,033 Thanks
    Redx
    write back and give them 7 days to produce it due to the pcn being issued and data should have been retained for say 6 years due to being required if a small claims MCOL was issued in England and Wales , especially as a pcn WAS issued.



    You will bring this lack of evidence and personal data up at POPLA or in COURT as required, because they have been shown to be wanting in only providing half the pictures required and you will repoert them to the ICO after 7 days has elapsed
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Knight who says Ni
    • By Knight who says Ni 2nd Jan 20, 7:08 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Knight who says Ni
    In their letter they also state that Euro Car Parks does not engage in any form of automated processing and decision making. All processing is done by ECP staff who check and verify the ANPR data before a PCN is issued and before it is sent by post.

    Presumably the same level of error checking that gets my registration number incorrect at the start of the letter (I presume its a fill in the blanks template and they didn't start from a blank template)
    • Redx
    • By Redx 2nd Jan 20, 10:26 PM
    • 26,776 Posts
    • 35,033 Thanks
    Redx
    If anpr was 100% accurate ( instead of about 80% accurate ) and if ECP staff did their jobs properly (none of them do) then no PCN would have been issued to you

    It's such a common problem that it's banned for councils , plus parking prankster blogged about it years ago , so common it's known as double dipping , but then they would say what they said , wouldn't they ?

    6 years and no different now than then

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/02/how-parking-operators-use-anpr.html
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Jan 20, 12:24 AM
    • 80,692 Posts
    • 95,221 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    In their letter they also state that Euro Car Parks does not engage in any form of automated processing and decision making. All processing is done by ECP staff who check and verify the ANPR data before a PCN is issued and before it is sent by post.

    Presumably the same level of error checking that gets my registration number incorrect at the start of the letter (I presume its a fill in the blanks template and they didn't start from a blank template)
    Originally posted by Knight who says Ni
    Ask why a copy of the verified manual check made and documented by staff, and relevant system updated confirming this action, was not included in your SAR.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Castle
    • By Castle 3rd Jan 20, 9:05 AM
    • 2,468 Posts
    • 3,502 Thanks
    Castle
    In their letter they also state that Euro Car Parks does not engage in any form of automated processing and decision making. All processing is done by ECP staff who check and verify the ANPR data before a PCN is issued and before it is sent by post.
    Originally posted by Knight who says Ni
    Except of course; using an ANPR Camera is automated processing.
    • rdr
    • By rdr 3rd Jan 20, 11:35 AM
    • 311 Posts
    • 237 Thanks
    rdr
    Except of course; using an ANPR Camera is automated processing.
    Originally posted by Castle

    And I bet they don't match all the entry and exit times manually and then calculate the stays by hand.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 3rd Jan 20, 2:43 PM
    • 8,714 Posts
    • 12,162 Thanks
    waamo
    And I bet they don't match all the entry and exit times manually and then calculate the stays by hand.
    Originally posted by rdr
    I suspect they don't have enough fingers and toes to work it out.
    This space for hire.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 3rd Jan 20, 2:55 PM
    • 5,115 Posts
    • 7,685 Thanks
    Half_way
    Except of course; using an ANPR Camera is automated processing.
    Originally posted by Castle



    And forgetting what the A stands for in ANPR
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 3rd Jan 20, 2:58 PM
    • 41,853 Posts
    • 92,767 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Finally received a letter in reply to my SAR request. Four pages of text, including copy of original PCN and higher resolution photos of first entry and second exit.

    However, the paragraph reproduced below says that other footage which would relate to first exit and second entry to have been deleted....

    So what to do?


    "Lastly you have made a request to obtain ANPR data from what you claim to be two seperate entries and visits to the car park. Please be advised that due to our Data Retention Policies, data which you have requested is only kept for 10 days, unless it relates to a Parking Charge Notice (PCN). Our records shiw that you have entered the car park at 11.53.49 hrs on 29/06 and left at 17:37.48 on 29/06. As you have overstayed the maximum period the Parking Charge Notice has been issued"
    Originally posted by Knight who says Ni
    So they admit their policy is to deliberately delete personal data that is proof of parking compliance in order to generate a parking charge for non-compliance.
    They therefore contradict themselves by saying they don't delete it unless it relates to a parking charge, which it does as soon as they delete the data.

    Complaints to the DVLA, ICO, your MP, and the BPA should be made pronto, and in that order.
    The scammers have breached the DPA/GDPR as well as the DVLA KADOE contract so that should be the main point of your complaint, but do include the points made by C-m in post 28.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 03-01-2020 at 3:22 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • steve1500
    • By steve1500 3rd Jan 20, 3:08 PM
    • 1,340 Posts
    • 976 Thanks
    steve1500

    Complaints to the DVLA, ICO, your MP, and the BPA should be made pronto, and in that order.
    The scammers have breached the DPA/GDPR as well as the DVLA KADOE contract so that should be the main point of your complaint, but do include the points made by C-m in post 28.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Slightly disagree - ICO should be first on the list when complaining. She has by far the biggest stick

    Also put them both on notice for compo under DPA. That should get Sainsbury's atttention
    Last edited by steve1500; 03-01-2020 at 3:12 PM.
    Private Parking Tickets - Make sure you put your Subject Access Request in after 25th May 2018 - It's free & ask for everything, don't forget the DVLA
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 3rd Jan 20, 3:25 PM
    • 41,853 Posts
    • 92,767 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Slightly disagree - ICO should be first on the list when complaining. She has by far the biggest stick

    Also put them both on notice for compo under DPA. That should get Sainsbury's attention
    Originally posted by steve1500
    Point taken. My reasoning though is that the DVLA can theoretically cut off the scammers' revenue stream faster than the ICO. Oh look, Porcine Aviation in action.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Knight who says Ni
    • By Knight who says Ni 15th Jan 20, 8:00 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Knight who says Ni
    After a stroppy letter sent following the last batch of helpful advice, came home tonight to find a letter saying my appeal has been successful and the parking charge has been dropped (as a gesture of goodwill).

    Thanks to all who contributed with their advice.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 15th Jan 20, 8:11 PM
    • 26,776 Posts
    • 35,033 Thanks
    Redx
    Goodwill my #### , they couldn't stand the heat so left the kitchen

    It should never have happened

    Well done and a happy new year to you
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

30Posts Today

3,408Users online

Martin's Twitter