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  • FIRST POST
    • YvonneAnne
    • By YvonneAnne 14th Jun 19, 7:19 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 1Thanks
    YvonneAnne
    SERPS - where did my money go?
    • #1
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:19 PM
    SERPS - where did my money go? 14th Jun 19 at 7:19 PM
    When I was 17 in 1984 I worked for Local Government and was contracted out by them automatically apparently. I didn't get the memo. I moved jobs and houses a fair bit and had another three employers, BT, Newcastle University, and Newcastle Polytechnic which later became Northumbria University and then in 1990 apparently my Schedule D (??) Payments ceased according to Inland Revenue.
    I have contacted three of the four company pension schemes and despite giving detailed info, they can't find me! They all suggested filling in tracer forms but I'm giving them the same info!
    My pension forecast includes a COPE estimate of 16.25 a week.. How am I going to access this? Would an FOI request get more info? Any advice greatly appreciated, thankyou.
Page 1
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 14th Jun 19, 7:21 PM
    • 16,021 Posts
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    AnotherJoe
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:21 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:21 PM
    There is a trace your pension service run by the government try that.
    https://www.findpensioncontacts.service.gov.uk/
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 14th Jun 19, 7:57 PM
    • 31,458 Posts
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    xylophone
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:57 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:57 PM
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1622167

    and then in 1990 apparently my Schedule D (??) Payments ceased according to Inland Revenue.
    What has this to do with SERPS?

    See post 23 here

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6009662&page=2

    DWP holds a detailed record of the periods of contracted-out and contracted-in employment, indexed by NI number. The guy I spoke to at DWP gave me the complete breakdown of my record over the phone. No values or employers, just the dates of employment and whether contracted-out or in.
    COPE estimate of 16.25 a week
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pension-fact-sheets/contracting-out-and-why-we-may-have-included-a-contracted-out-pension-equivalent-cope-amount-when-you-used-the-online-service


    17 in 1984 I worked for Local Government and was contracted out by them automatically apparently. I didn't get the memo. I moved jobs and houses a fair bit and had another three employers, BT, Newcastle University, and Newcastle Polytechnic which later became Northumbria University
    These would have had DB contracted out schemes.

    How long did you work for each employer?
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 14th Jun 19, 8:00 PM
    • 4,675 Posts
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    Silvertabby
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 19, 8:00 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 19, 8:00 PM
    In the case of the LGPS, if you left before 1988 with less than 5 years service then you won't have accrued any actual pension benefits. Moreover, if you were under 25 when you left then your only option would have been a refund of your own contributions. You wouldn't have had to request this - a cheque would have been sent to your home address.
    • YvonneAnne
    • By YvonneAnne 14th Jun 19, 8:56 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    YvonneAnne
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 19, 8:56 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 19, 8:56 PM
    I have already tried the Gov.UK tracing pension service, that was who I got the companies present day fund details contacts from
    • YvonneAnne
    • By YvonneAnne 14th Jun 19, 9:01 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    YvonneAnne
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 19, 9:01 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 19, 9:01 PM
    These are not my contributions.. They are reductions in NI payments that were made to add to the state additional pension scheme that I was opted out of using SERPS. Inland Revenue state I am entitled to at least 16.25 additional pension which would have been the S2P if I hadn't been contracted out. this is a SERPS/COPE issue, the companies receiving my payment have no record of me yet Inland Revenue have confirmed payments and Pension Tracing Service gave me their details
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 15th Jun 19, 12:40 AM
    • 31,458 Posts
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    xylophone
    • #7
    • 15th Jun 19, 12:40 AM
    • #7
    • 15th Jun 19, 12:40 AM
    Did you read post 23 linked in my post above?
    You could try DWP to find out when you were contracted out which would indicate the employer you were with at the time in question?

    The other possibility is that you contracted out into a personal pension after 1988- do you have any records of a pension policy with an insurance company?

    See https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/state-pension/what-was-contracting-out-a581c3l1kqf4
    • nigelbb
    • By nigelbb 15th Jun 19, 4:58 AM
    • 2,631 Posts
    • 3,398 Thanks
    nigelbb
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 19, 4:58 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 19, 4:58 AM
    In the case of the LGPS, if you left before 1988 with less than 5 years service then you won't have accrued any actual pension benefits. Moreover, if you were under 25 when you left then your only option would have been a refund of your own contributions. You wouldn't have had to request this - a cheque would have been sent to your home address.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    I was in a similar position with the NHS pension scheme. I worked for less than five years & as I recall a year or so after I left the NHS I received a cheque for several hundred pounds. I was young & foolish & was rather pleased by the windfall but in retrospect now that I am a pensioner I would appreciate the small DB pension. Currently with the NHS pension scheme it's only if you have less than two years service that you are forced to accept a refund of contributions.

    This has set me thinking as I assume that contracted out NI contributions would have been squared up & I would have been put back into the same position as if I had never been contracted out of SERPS but is there any way that I can confirm this?
    • grnglide
    • By grnglide 15th Jun 19, 9:36 AM
    • 158 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    grnglide
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 19, 9:36 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 19, 9:36 AM
    You could try DWP t
    Is it not HMRC that is needed in this case?


    Used to be class 1 caseworker in the past. It is HMRC that hold all the records and can tell you when you were contracted out and the scheme(s) you were in.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 15th Jun 19, 12:44 PM
    • 31,458 Posts
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    xylophone
    Is it not HMRC that is needed in this case?
    See post 23

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6009662&page=2
    • molerat
    • By molerat 15th Jun 19, 2:51 PM
    • 21,424 Posts
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    molerat
    16.25 COPE does not suggest a very long contracted out period(s) so there is the possibility that the majority of those listed employments may well have refunded and reversed the contracted out status leaving no trace of the employment / pension in their records. OP's NI record should show contacted out years and the employer for those years.
    https://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/give-support/donate-now/
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 15th Jun 19, 6:37 PM
    • 31,458 Posts
    • 19,493 Thanks
    xylophone
    there is the possibility that the majority of those listed employments may well have refunded and reversed the contracted out status leaving no trace of the employment / pension in their records. OP's NI record should show contacted out years and the employer for those years.
    But see Post 1

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=75917747#post75917747
    • jamesd
    • By jamesd 16th Jun 19, 6:40 AM
    • 23,460 Posts
    • 15,800 Thanks
    jamesd
    Only 16.25 COPE suggests little contracted out time. There are two broad cases to consider:

    1. if you contracted out yourself into a personal pension. The HMRC records show that the scheme received the money so ask them to explain or pay redress and formally complain if they don't.
    2. if you were in a contracted out defined benefit scheme provide dates of employment and ask the scheme to investigate via their tracing form and explain then complain if they fail to. However, four jobs in six years suggests short term employee ineligibility for the main pension is the likely answer. But a GMP-only pension might remain and it's worth specifically asking about this.
    • YvonneAnne
    • By YvonneAnne 16th Jun 19, 7:10 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    YvonneAnne
    Thanks everyone, it's a lot clearer now, literally as I've logged into my laptop instead of my phone and saw the bits I missed - many thanks Xylophone, post 23 nailed it actually!!
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