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  • FIRST POST
    • Moneysaving222
    • By Moneysaving222 14th Jun 19, 6:52 PM
    • 62Posts
    • 15Thanks
    Moneysaving222
    Is my vendor or real estate agent lying to me
    • #1
    • 14th Jun 19, 6:52 PM
    Is my vendor or real estate agent lying to me 14th Jun 19 at 6:52 PM
    Ive made an offer on a house not knowing there was structural movement, my mistake for not seeing it. My mortgage company picked it up and later my survey. I didnít realize that both did surveys.

    Anyway, the vendor reckons she doesnít know about the structural movement, got her to get a structural engineer to visit the property and do a report. It was agreed we would swap reports. In the meantime I spoke to the admin person for my mortgage application and she says the report would have to be in my name and that it would be best if I instructed my own structural report (I agreed).

    I have spoken to the vendors representative, aka the Estate Agent (EA) and apparently she had just got a voicemail at 2pm (I called 2:05pm. I sent an sms at 7pm because I hadnít heard. The issue with the subsidence is apparently the windows or the drains.

    Ok Iím clearly been taken for a mug - but by who? Are all EA liars? Did they do the structural report. Any ideas?
Page 1
    • anselld
    • By anselld 14th Jun 19, 6:58 PM
    • 6,428 Posts
    • 6,369 Thanks
    anselld
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 19, 6:58 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 19, 6:58 PM
    Don't understand where you think the lie is, but that is irrelevant really. You should only rely on your own bought-and-paid-for experts. Anyone else is not even qualified to know if they are lying or not.
    • Moneysaving222
    • By Moneysaving222 14th Jun 19, 7:31 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Moneysaving222
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:31 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:31 PM
    So far I’ve been told by the EA that the owner didn’t realize there were big cracks in the back of the house (owned it for 10 years), she hasn’t lived there for four years (carpets haven’t been changed in 10+ years suggesting it was a rental for the whole time), that she’s been told the windows were the cause of subsidence by the structural engineer, the owner works as an estate agent herself.....

    The EA told me she had just had a voicemail from the owner, literally the minute before I call and she would call me back. Never did. Also when I had my offer accepted twenty mins later a person who viewed the property the week before made a surprise bid. The EA didn’t know that I would need a structural report in my name for the mortgage company (I wasn’t ever going to use their report, I just wasn’t prepared to spend more money).
    • Moneysaving222
    • By Moneysaving222 14th Jun 19, 7:35 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Moneysaving222
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:35 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:35 PM
    Apparently the owner is “disappointed” she spent £450 on a structural report when she should be making her insurance company aware of the subsidence.

    So I wonder if a structural report was ever carried out and who’s lying about the results.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 14th Jun 19, 7:36 PM
    • 49,588 Posts
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    G_M
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:36 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:36 PM
    Look.Ignore what people triyng to sell a house are telling you. They just want to sell the house.


    If you are worried there may be a significant structural issue, employ someone professional, who knows what they are doing, and will report to you, and then decide what to do.
    Last edited by G_M; 14-06-2019 at 9:02 PM.
    • Moneysaving222
    • By Moneysaving222 14th Jun 19, 8:07 PM
    • 62 Posts
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    Moneysaving222
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 19, 8:07 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 19, 8:07 PM
    ^yes that’s what I’m doing and I would like to liaise with the vendor, hence I do it through the EA.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 14th Jun 19, 9:04 PM
    • 49,588 Posts
    • 61,552 Thanks
    G_M
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 19, 9:04 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 19, 9:04 PM
    ^yes thatís what Iím doing and I would like to liaise with the vendor, hence I do it through the EA.
    Originally posted by Moneysaving222
    then what advice or help are you looking for here?


    Give your professional the EA's contact details and he'll set up an appointment to inspect, and report back to you.
    • Moneysaving222
    • By Moneysaving222 15th Jun 19, 10:15 AM
    • 62 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Moneysaving222
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 19, 10:15 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 19, 10:15 AM
    Iím just feeling a little lost with the whole negotiation part. Had I know about structural issues before making an offer I wouldnít have started the mortgage application etc.

    The whole process I feel like Iíve been doing it back to front and getting no right advice or doing the process the way I think it should be done.

    Hence why Iím coming on this forum and asking for help. I thought I negotiated with the EA that the vendor would get the structural report done as she didnít know about huge cracks in her house and I didnít want to spend money on the engineers report to find out she wouldnít sell etc.

    Obviously the EA is working for the vendor and I also need to negotiate and clarify information.

    I have been told movement is due to windows..... this is from the EA who was apparently told by vendor. Itís a lie, windows donít cause subsidence. I was told we could exchange reports (mine was the survey) but being told that subsidence is due to windows is making me lose my faith.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 15th Jun 19, 10:23 AM
    • 19,862 Posts
    • 50,437 Thanks
    elsien
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 19, 10:23 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 19, 10:23 AM
    Chinese whispers and third party verbal information is never going to be accurate whether someone is lying or (more likely) minunderstanding what was said.

    You are overfocussing on that part of it.
    And it's also the reason you carry out due diligence with your own checks. And risk being slightly out of pocket if you have to walk away - all part of the home buying process.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • HampshireH
    • By HampshireH 15th Jun 19, 10:38 AM
    • 1,830 Posts
    • 2,381 Thanks
    HampshireH
    You say nobody noticed this structual problem and the cracks.

    Seems hard to believe. Serious cracking will usually show on both the inside and outside of the walls.

    Drainage could be a legitimate reason. However some cracking could also be historical movement. Or the slab could have dropped over time due to the make up of material settling underneath it over the years creating internal cracking (and gaps under skirting/betwern walls and ceiling)

    Could be a number of things. Its in your own interest to get your own survey. You can swap it with the vendor if you wish - very nice of you.
    Just make sure they are given a photocopy and you keep the original if you choose to do this.

    How bad are the cracks?
    • Moneysaving222
    • By Moneysaving222 15th Jun 19, 10:41 AM
    • 62 Posts
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    Moneysaving222
    Hi Hampshire, the owner said she didn’t notice and because I didn’t go outside I didn’t see the outside cracks. I saw the inside cracks which aren’t uncommon for houses that age (my house has some cracks).

    Hi elisen, I’m just concerned that I’m going to spend £££ and the landlord isn’t going to sell or it’s not able to get a mortgage or insurance.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 15th Jun 19, 10:45 AM
    • 49,588 Posts
    • 61,552 Thanks
    G_M
    Iím just feeling a little lost with the whole negotiation part. Had I know about structural issues before making an offer I wouldnít have started the mortgage application etc.

    .
    Originally posted by Moneysaving222
    That's why you have surveys etc done! To find out these things before making the finl commitment.


    As for 'negotiation' - until you have the facts, there is nothing to negotiate!
    • kinger101
    • By kinger101 15th Jun 19, 10:52 AM
    • 4,786 Posts
    • 6,726 Thanks
    kinger101
    Hi Hampshire, the owner said she didnít notice and because I didnít go outside I didnít see the outside cracks.
    Originally posted by Moneysaving222
    You didn't look outside. You're buying the place. Inspect everything.



    Iím just concerned that Iím going to spend £££ and the landlord isnít going to sell or itís not able to get a mortgage or insurance.
    Originally posted by Moneysaving222
    In which case, it might be better to walk away now.
    • Moneysaving222
    • By Moneysaving222 15th Jun 19, 11:16 AM
    • 62 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Moneysaving222
    I’ve got a message from the negotiator: “the surveyor has said there is no movement or subsidance”. Lol. Ok. There clearly is when my mortgage company (who is independent) and my surveyor said there is.
    • Moneysaving222
    • By Moneysaving222 15th Jun 19, 11:18 AM
    • 62 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Moneysaving222
    Hi kinger, yes I know. Silly me.
    • markin
    • By markin 15th Jun 19, 12:55 PM
    • 846 Posts
    • 692 Thanks
    markin
    Don't buy until her insurance company has fixed the problem, it could be months to sort, maybe time to walk.
    • Moneysaving222
    • By Moneysaving222 15th Jun 19, 2:01 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Moneysaving222
    Hi markin, yes if I had clarity about what knowledge she has of the movement and what’s she’s done, that would be great because then I can put forward my action plan. But being told that an expert said that subsidence is caused by windows, we know they are lying.

    I’m also under the impression that if her insurance knows I can continue the insurance with that company (or another if it’s more cost effective.)
    • elsien
    • By elsien 15th Jun 19, 2:07 PM
    • 19,862 Posts
    • 50,437 Thanks
    elsien
    I’ve got a message from the negotiator: “the surveyor has said there is no movement or subsidance”. Lol. Ok. There clearly is when my mortgage company (who is independent) and my surveyor said there is.
    Originally posted by Moneysaving222
    Your mortgage company don't do a full survey. They do a valuation based on what they can see to decide whether the house is worth what you're asking to borrow from them. They have flagged up concerns but without a full survey neither you nor they are in a position to properly say what the cause of the cracks are and how they should be dealt with. What sort of survey have you had done?

    Any house you buy, the seller (or you) can withdraw at any point up to exchange and you will lose anything you have paid out up to that point. Is this house important enough to you to want to take the chance?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 15th Jun 19, 2:16 PM
    • 4,889 Posts
    • 8,302 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Hi Moneysaving222, and welcome.

    You refer to a "real estate agent" in your thread title, which makes me wonder if you are, perhaps, American or Canadian; are you here in the UK? It sounds so as you then go on to refer to EA's who, you should know, are paid to lie; it's their living. They are all destined for the same circle of hell as lawyers, imho. You can't believe a word they say as all they care about is their commission and they would tell you a one-man tent was St. Paul's cathedral if they thought you would believe it.

    You are correct; windows do not cause subsidence: Drains collapsing can. Windows can sag or drop due to inadequate/no lintels as many older properties were not designed with the weight of double glazing in mind, only that of single-paned, wooden framed windows but all that does is cause gapping at the top of the windows, not structural movement, as far as I am aware.

    FYI, most UK insurance companies specifically exclude subsidence and landslip from the conditions they cover so I think you may be on a hiding to nothing there.

    G_M is the go-to guy for all things property on this forum, imho so you would do well to listen to what he says. (Hi, G_M) It seems, unless you are prepared to spend possibly £000s on underpinning and who knows what else, that it might be an idea to chalk this up and find another property to buy, armed with the knowledge you have gained.

    I am glad you have found this forum; it can be very helpful to house buyers.

    P.S. If you want, I'll tell you my lawyer joke; it could apply easily to EAs as well. (Surrey_EA, I don't mean you, you're cool)
    Last edited by Smodlet; 15-06-2019 at 3:06 PM.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Moneysaving222
    • By Moneysaving222 15th Jun 19, 2:25 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Moneysaving222
    Hi Smodlet, thank you. Yes I’m confused about so much and yes tell the joke.

    Hi elisen, at this moment in time I’ve not been able to find anything I want, and i need to know if there will be future movement etc. Had the EA just said the vendor isn’t willing to get a report and you’ll need your own name for your mortgage company, I wouldn’t be so annoyed, and I would see justification of getting my own structural survey done.
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