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  • FIRST POST
    • archer123
    • By archer123 14th Jun 19, 11:12 AM
    • 50Posts
    • 7Thanks
    archer123
    How do I get out of Phoenix?
    • #1
    • 14th Jun 19, 11:12 AM
    How do I get out of Phoenix? 14th Jun 19 at 11:12 AM
    As dunstonh pointed out in another thread, Phoenix only handle legacy funds.
    I have some of my pension invested in a low performing fund. I am 67yr and don't want to draw the money yet.
    I want to move it to give better fund choices and maybe lower the fees. Oh, and a more responsive provider.
    But Phoenix are not making it easy.
    What is the normal process? Surely I should be able fill out a transfer form, choose the new SIPP provider, or whoever, and bingo!
Page 1
    • wjr4
    • By wjr4 14th Jun 19, 11:34 AM
    • 600 Posts
    • 426 Thanks
    wjr4
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 19, 11:34 AM
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 19, 11:34 AM
    Has it got any guarantees or protected PCLS? If not, find a new provider, complete their own transfer form and transfer it. Why don't you consider a fund switch if you are not looking to withdraw any money yet?
    • archer123
    • By archer123 14th Jun 19, 11:46 AM
    • 50 Posts
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    archer123
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 19, 11:46 AM
    • #3
    • 14th Jun 19, 11:46 AM
    There are no guarantees. I do not really know what PCLS is.
    The fund is split into 2 parts; old protected rights and non-protected rights, but both have units in a Janus Henderson Managed fund that lost value.
    I just don't seem to get any response or help from Phoenix.....like no-one is home!!

    So, as you suggest, the receiving provider can give me the transfer forms to signoff. Right?I could tranfer without cashing out the Janus Henderson fund, and then make my switches in the new provider. May be cheaper?
    • MallyGirl
    • By MallyGirl 14th Jun 19, 12:30 PM
    • 3,968 Posts
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    MallyGirl
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 19, 12:30 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 19, 12:30 PM
    Last year lots of investments lost value.
    PCLS is pension commencement lump sum - the 25% tax free lump sum that you might want to take
    You need to know what your current fees are before you can work out if elsewhere might be cheaper
    • Marcon
    • By Marcon 14th Jun 19, 12:44 PM
    • 1,263 Posts
    • 1,002 Thanks
    Marcon
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 19, 12:44 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 19, 12:44 PM
    So, as you suggest, the receiving provider can give me the transfer forms to signoff. Right?I could tranfer without cashing out the Janus Henderson fund, and then make my switches in the new provider. May be cheaper?
    Originally posted by archer123
    Are you suggesting an in specie transfer of the Janus Henderson fund - or indeed the whole of your pension investments held with Phoenix?
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 14th Jun 19, 1:23 PM
    • 31,328 Posts
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    xylophone
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 19, 1:23 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 19, 1:23 PM
    How do I get out of Phoenix?
    British Airways?

    You would approach your chosen new provider and ask them to arrange the transfer.

    What is the value of the pot?
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 14th Jun 19, 2:11 PM
    • 98,597 Posts
    • 67,050 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 19, 2:11 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 19, 2:11 PM
    The fund is split into 2 parts; old protected rights and non-protected rights, but both have units in a Janus Henderson Managed fund that lost value.
    2018 was a negative year. So, you would expect values to have fallen. A loss does not mean poor performance.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • archer123
    • By archer123 14th Jun 19, 3:24 PM
    • 50 Posts
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    archer123
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 19, 3:24 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 19, 3:24 PM
    Haha. No, it's not BA....but not a far off guess.

    The total vaue is about 150k. Yes I am suggesting an 'in specie' transfer to make it simple, then decide on the fund(s) when it arrives. Is this good?

    I thought all uncrystalised pension pots allowed 25% tfls ...so how does this PCLS differ? If you mean was it a single premium investment from my company DB scheme? Yes it was. And yes I am one of the masses who was conned out of lucrative future benefits, without a full understanding of the implications and a load of lies.. But that's another story, and long forgotten (not).

    I pay 1% to Phoenix. I guess Henderson make a charge, as well.
    Last edited by archer123; 14-06-2019 at 3:26 PM.
    • HappyHarry
    • By HappyHarry 14th Jun 19, 3:51 PM
    • 982 Posts
    • 1,451 Thanks
    HappyHarry
    • #9
    • 14th Jun 19, 3:51 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Jun 19, 3:51 PM
    Just to check, your new pension provider needs to be the one requesting the funds from Phoenix. Phoenix won't send on the pension funds to your new provider on your say so.

    Edit: What are Phoenix doing that isn't making it easy?
    Last edited by HappyHarry; 14-06-2019 at 3:52 PM. Reason: Question
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser. Any comments I make here are intended for information / discussion only. Nothing I post here should be construed as advice. If you are looking for individual financial advice, please contact a local Independent Financial Adviser.
    • archer123
    • By archer123 14th Jun 19, 3:56 PM
    • 50 Posts
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    archer123
    Hi Harry. Thanks for your input.

    Phoenix don't respond to any emails... and didn't send the retirement pack that I requested. But.... now been told it was actually despatched last Tuesday via snail mail.

    Maybe I'm just toooo impatient.
    • archer123
    • By archer123 14th Jun 19, 4:05 PM
    • 50 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    archer123
    My plan now is to study the other funds that are available with Phoenix (didn't know they had any others!) and work out if any suit my needs, if not transfer the lot out to another provider, asking them to initiate the transfer.
    Great

    Thanks
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 14th Jun 19, 4:27 PM
    • 31,328 Posts
    • 19,419 Thanks
    xylophone
    in specie' transfer to make it simple,
    Believe me, an "in specie" transfer can be far from simple.

    Myself, if ever I had to transfer a SIPP/ISA/Share account again, I'd sell to cash before transfer and choose the new investments afterwards.
    • MallyGirl
    • By MallyGirl 14th Jun 19, 5:44 PM
    • 3,968 Posts
    • 9,405 Thanks
    MallyGirl
    Me too. Cash transfers were all a matter of days, the only time I did in specie it took 4 months and a lot of chasing
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 14th Jun 19, 6:12 PM
    • 15,913 Posts
    • 19,135 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    Another vote for a cash transfer if you plan to sell the fund anyway. Will be much quicker and simpler.
    Please dont criticise my spelling. It's excellent. Its my typing that's bad.
    • shinytop
    • By shinytop 14th Jun 19, 9:49 PM
    • 509 Posts
    • 588 Thanks
    shinytop
    Hi Harry. Thanks for your input.

    Phoenix don't respond to any emails... and didn't send the retirement pack that I requested. But.... now been told it was actually despatched last Tuesday via snail mail.

    Maybe I'm just toooo impatient.
    Originally posted by archer123
    My work pension administrator is very slow (1 or 2 weeks) to reply to emails. But they always answer the phone and are very helpful. Maybe try that?
    • Linton
    • By Linton 15th Jun 19, 5:05 AM
    • 11,248 Posts
    • 11,657 Thanks
    Linton
    Hi Harry. Thanks for your input.

    Phoenix don't respond to any emails... and didn't send the retirement pack that I requested. But.... now been told it was actually despatched last Tuesday via snail mail.

    Maybe I'm just toooo impatient.
    Originally posted by archer123
    Emails are not a suitable way of sorting out your pension, consider the confidentiality issues. All formal documentation is in paper form. One of my pensions is with Phoenix. I have always found them efficient and competent with a very good telephone help desk.

    Another factor you need to understand is that when a pension scheme is taken over by companies like Phoenix it may include historic computer software and hardware, standard procedures and trained staff. It is not economically worthwhile re-engineering the systems to cope with new facilities. That is why old closed pensions are sold on by the original provider.
    • archer123
    • By archer123 15th Jun 19, 8:22 AM
    • 50 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    archer123
    Email contact using their secure online access!!
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