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  • FIRST POST
    • Hm121
    • By Hm121 13th Jun 19, 10:27 PM
    • 18Posts
    • 14Thanks
    Hm121
    NHS starting salary
    • #1
    • 13th Jun 19, 10:27 PM
    NHS starting salary 13th Jun 19 at 10:27 PM
    Hello all,

    I am looking for some advice regarding a band 5 nhs position I have been offered, it's not a clinical role its a biomedical engineering role. I currently get paid 27k in my current role in the private sector but if I accepted the nhs role I would be starting on £24,244 initially I was a bit reluctant to accept the new job, but I don't overly enjoy my current job so I would of taken the pay loss and accepted the nhs offer and it would take 3 years to reach £26970 on the new nhs pay scale so it wouldn't be too bad.

    But my boss came back to me today and offered me £32240 to stay with the company, which is a pretty big increase, I would prefer to work for the nhs as I believe I would enjoy it more then my current role, but the difference between starting at £24214 and going into work tomorrow at £32240 is pretty big, even the top of band 5 is only £30615 and that would take 6 years to reach.

    I do realise nhs staff get a pretty generous pension, which is much more then my current 4% but can anyone suggest any benefits that would outweigh that big pay gap?

    When I was first offered the role I did ask them to match my current £27k but the recruiting manager was apparently told no by HR.

    I plan on calling the manager up tomorrow and saying what I've been offered and see if they can up the starting salary but I doubt they will, has anyone had luck with getting a increase on the starting salary.

    I really would like to accept the NHS job but I would start on a 8k less salary and the only benefit I can see with the nhs is a decent pension.

    Thanks in advance
Page 1
    • JayRitchie
    • By JayRitchie 13th Jun 19, 11:01 PM
    • 284 Posts
    • 290 Thanks
    JayRitchie
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 19, 11:01 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 19, 11:01 PM
    The NHS pension is very good - I'd guess you might value it at about 25% of salary. How do working hours and annual leave compare?
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 13th Jun 19, 11:03 PM
    • 6,015 Posts
    • 7,455 Thanks
    theoretica
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 19, 11:03 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 19, 11:03 PM
    The NHS pension is more valuable than many people realise. eg:

    https://www.nasgp.org.uk/does-the-nhs-pension-scheme-still-represent-good-value-for-money/
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Jun 19, 5:12 AM
    • 9,912 Posts
    • 11,903 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 19, 5:12 AM
    • #4
    • 14th Jun 19, 5:12 AM
    Hello all,

    I am looking for some advice regarding a band 5 nhs position I have been offered, it's not a clinical role its a biomedical engineering role. I currently get paid 27k in my current role in the private sector but if I accepted the nhs role I would be starting on £24,244 initially I was a bit reluctant to accept the new job, but I don't overly enjoy my current job so I would of taken the pay loss and accepted the nhs offer and it would take 3 years to reach £26970 on the new nhs pay scale so it wouldn't be too bad.

    But my boss came back to me today and offered me £32240 to stay with the company, which is a pretty big increase, I would prefer to work for the nhs as I believe I would enjoy it more then my current role, but the difference between starting at £24214 and going into work tomorrow at £32240 is pretty big, even the top of band 5 is only £30615 and that would take 6 years to reach.

    I do realise nhs staff get a pretty generous pension, which is much more then my current 4% but can anyone suggest any benefits that would outweigh that big pay gap?

    When I was first offered the role I did ask them to match my current £27k but the recruiting manager was apparently told no by HR.

    I plan on calling the manager up tomorrow and saying what I've been offered and see if they can up the starting salary but I doubt they will, has anyone had luck with getting a increase on the starting salary.

    I really would like to accept the NHS job but I would start on a 8k less salary and the only benefit I can see with the nhs is a decent pension.

    Thanks in advance
    Originally posted by Hm121
    Aside from the pension, you get 35 days AL starting, 6 months full sick pay and guaranteed salary increase.

    I’m real terms your current increase isn’t that high; 5k after tax, NI and pension, is £250 a month.
    • Mrsn
    • By Mrsn 14th Jun 19, 5:52 AM
    • 207 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    Mrsn
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 19, 5:52 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 19, 5:52 AM
    Whilst it’s a good increase in salary you’ve already stated you don’t enjoy the job.... I don’t see how having the extra money will make you feel more positive towards the role in the future (aside from being a bit more financially comfortable) any problems related to the current role will still be there.

    That’s really not meant to be negative as to be offered that much to stay in the first place must be flattering but o think you need to think closely to the original reasons you wanted to leave in the first place
    • MarkN88
    • By MarkN88 14th Jun 19, 6:26 AM
    • 1,049 Posts
    • 627 Thanks
    MarkN88
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 19, 6:26 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 19, 6:26 AM
    NHS jobs are advertised with the band, the actual figures and state if new to the NHS that you would start at the bottom of the band, so when you applied and knew this, why didn’t you pull out if that wasn’t acceptable?

    You need to decide if it’s the job you enjoy or the salary, after you decide this you will know what job to go for.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 14th Jun 19, 6:56 AM
    • 2,890 Posts
    • 2,601 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 19, 6:56 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 19, 6:56 AM
    If the NHS has another suitable candidate whom they can offer the job to if you refuse, you're very unlikely to negotiate anything. So long as another candidate meets all the other requirements they're not going to worry about you - even if you're the best in the world at your job.


    If you don't enjoy (or even dislike your current job) it's up to you to decide how much more you want to be paid to put up with it. (Mind you, although I enjoyed working in the NHS, some of my colleagues didn't).


    As a recipient of a NHS Pension, I'd go for the NHS. I know the current NHS pension isn't as good as mine, but you'd struggle to find anything better in the private sector - plus sick pay etc. etc.


    Clinical staff are under a lot of pressure and stress, but in my experience it's non-clinical staff who tend not to enjoy the job much (largely because they come into more contact with NHS managers!). As a former NHS workforce planner, I would argue a bio-medical engineer is clinical, although many would disagree.
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 14th Jun 19, 7:18 AM
    • 6,895 Posts
    • 12,442 Thanks
    GlasweJen
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:18 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:18 AM
    NHS annual leave is also generous and increases with service as well.

    You'll be paid a premium if you work a bank holiday or any "unsociable hours".
    Bounts, Quidco, Shop and Scan, Receipt Hog, Costco Cashback, Debit card cashback

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    • JReacher1
    • By JReacher1 14th Jun 19, 7:52 AM
    • 3,225 Posts
    • 4,492 Thanks
    JReacher1
    • #9
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:52 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Jun 19, 7:52 AM
    You’re basically taking an £8k pay cut to join the NHS. I suppose it depends on your financial circumstances whether you need that money or not.

    I would have a think about what your plans are for the next few years and see what is more important to you.

    In three years at the NHS you will be on almost £27k but I would imagine you’re current salary would also increase during this three year period.
    • Hm121
    • By Hm121 14th Jun 19, 8:17 AM
    • 18 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Hm121
    Thanks all for the replies, sorry but I'm unable to quote on my phone.

    But yes I would get a few more holidays then I currently get, I guess sick pay is a positive but I get good sick pay where I work at the moment.

    @markn88 - yes the nhs list the bands and pay, they list the range for that band and anyone in their right mind would naturally assume it means starting salary ranges anywhere between those 2 points based on experience. And no where did it say on the job description that new comers start at the bottom of the pay scale, most people wouldn't know this unless they have worked for the nhs beforhand.
    • NaughtiusMaximus
    • By NaughtiusMaximus 14th Jun 19, 8:44 AM
    • 2,110 Posts
    • 5,220 Thanks
    NaughtiusMaximus
    if new to the NHS that you would start at the bottom of the band,
    Originally posted by MarkN88
    That's the official position, unofficially these rules are sometimes bent if the successful applicant is the only one regarded as appointable or was streets ahead of everyone else.
    • polgara
    • By polgara 14th Jun 19, 9:15 AM
    • 424 Posts
    • 421 Thanks
    polgara
    Aside from the pension, you get 35 days AL starting, 6 months full sick pay and guaranteed salary increase.

    I’m real terms your current increase isn’t that high; 5k after tax, NI and pension, is £250 a month.
    Originally posted by Comms69

    27 days plus bank holidays moving up to a maximum of 33 plus bank holidays (usually 8 but can change based on Easter and which annual leave year it falls in).


    Generous sick pay - however you have to have service to get the full 6 months:


    • during the first year of service – one month’s full pay and two months’ half pay
    • during the second year of service – two months’ full pay and two months’ half pay
    • during the third year of service – four months’ full pay and four months’ half pay
    • during the fourth and fifth years of service – five months’ full pay and five months’ half pay
    • after completing five years of service – six months’ full pay and six months’ half pay.
    The new system is movement through step points annual but there isn't guaranteed salary increase for new starters.
    However, the pension is pretty hard to match for most small employers - employer contribution is very good plus the other stuff - lots of places give discounts for NHS staff.
    • Andy L
    • By Andy L 14th Jun 19, 10:11 AM
    • 10,112 Posts
    • 9,264 Thanks
    Andy L
    That's the official position, unofficially these rules are sometimes bent if the successful applicant is the only one regarded as appointable or was streets ahead of everyone else.
    Originally posted by NaughtiusMaximus
    There is no NHS-wide official position that people must start at the bottom of the scale (eg in Agenda for Change itself or via legislation). Individual trusts can have whatever policy they like, providing it doesn't breach equality legislation.
    The 2 trusts I've worked for have had policies saying they can offer higher than the min if the candidate justifies it (eg suitable qualifications and/or experience from other employers) but that's not "bending the rules", its following them
    • MarkN88
    • By MarkN88 14th Jun 19, 12:18 PM
    • 1,049 Posts
    • 627 Thanks
    MarkN88
    Which trust have you applied for ?
    • JayRitchie
    • By JayRitchie 15th Jun 19, 12:48 PM
    • 284 Posts
    • 290 Thanks
    JayRitchie

    However, the pension is pretty hard to match for most small employers - employer contribution is very good plus the other stuff - lots of places give discounts for NHS staff.
    Originally posted by polgara
    Pretty much no private sector employer gives a pension anything like as good as the NHS one. Thats a serious consideration for anyone considering a job there.
    • NaughtiusMaximus
    • By NaughtiusMaximus 15th Jun 19, 1:48 PM
    • 2,110 Posts
    • 5,220 Thanks
    NaughtiusMaximus
    There is no NHS-wide official position that people must start at the bottom of the scale (eg in Agenda for Change itself or via legislation). Individual trusts can have whatever policy they like, providing it doesn't breach equality legislation.
    The 2 trusts I've worked for have had policies saying they can offer higher than the min if the candidate justifies it (eg suitable qualifications and/or experience from other employers) but that's not "bending the rules", its following them
    Originally posted by Andy L
    When I said official I wasn't referring to something written into legislation, rather the internal position of HR teams within individual NHS organisations. My experience of the organisations I've worked for in the NHS is the usual HR position is that all appointments are to the bottom of the pay scale for the relevant band (the exception being if it's an existing NHS employee on the same band who instead starts one increment higher) but they will, occasionally, be more flexible depending on the circumstances.

    Of course each organisation is free to set up it's own HR policies in this regard so I'm sure there are some who regard the starting salary of every post as open to negotiation.
    • panika
    • By panika 16th Jun 19, 7:06 PM
    • 138 Posts
    • 139 Thanks
    panika
    Band 5 starting salary comparing for experienced/qualified person comparing to private sector. On the plus side, you are getting better pension, more annual leave and sick pay. It is also more secure employment. Sometimes, when you look what managers do and see consequences of their decisions, you will notice, that this wouldn't go so lightly in the private sector.
    I have been working in Ebme departments for a few years. Just a thought- after gaining experience in this kind of job, you can apply for band 6 position where you will earn between 30-38k.
    • Hm121
    • By Hm121 17th Jun 19, 12:17 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Hm121
    I was looking into the pension but would you be able to tell me what the exact employer contribution is, it says 14.3% on the nhs site, but I read that it went up 6.3% in April making the total 20.6%, I did enquire about the pension and have been told its 20.83%, so alot of conflicting information. So let's say the employer contribution is 20.6 and I contribute 7.1, so the total would be 27.7, am I right in thinking 27.7 would be the correct amount?

    So using 27.7%, the monthly pension contribution on the starting salary of £24214 with the nhs would be £558.94 each month?
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 17th Jun 19, 8:02 PM
    • 2,890 Posts
    • 2,601 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    Is the employer contribution relevant? It's still a final salary scheme isn't it? It's not funded from a "pot".
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 17th Jun 19, 8:28 PM
    • 1,868 Posts
    • 3,272 Thanks
    nicechap
    Is the employer contribution relevant? It's still a final salary scheme isn't it? It's not funded from a "pot".
    Originally posted by Manxman in exile
    I believe for new joiners it is based on total contributions rather than final salary. However, you can transfer in pension from other places.

    https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/member-hub/cost-being-scheme
    Originally Posted by shortcrust
    "Contact the Ministry of Fairness....If sufficient evidence of unfairness is discovered you’ll get an apology, a permanent contract with backdated benefits, a ‘Let’s Make it Fair!’ tshirt and mug, and those guilty of unfairness will be sent on a Fairness Awareness course."
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