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  • FIRST POST
    • martinbuckley
    • By martinbuckley 13th Jun 19, 11:49 AM
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    martinbuckley
    NTK Time Limit
    • #1
    • 13th Jun 19, 11:49 AM
    NTK Time Limit 13th Jun 19 at 11:49 AM
    Sorry if its somewhere else, but I couldn't find it...

    Is there a time limit from the "alleged offence" in which a NTK needs to be sent?
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Jun 19, 11:56 AM
    • 40,556 Posts
    • 90,069 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 19, 11:56 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 19, 11:56 AM
    Yes, it's called the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 and is linked from the sticky thread for NEWBIES, (which you should always read first) or can be found using a search engine of your choice.

    Failing to meet the time limits is one of the reasons why a keeper cannot be held liable, but doesn't necessarily mean the PPC won't still pursue a PCN.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 13-06-2019 at 11:58 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 13th Jun 19, 11:58 AM
    • 5,679 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 19, 11:58 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 19, 11:58 AM
    It also ONLY applies where they are trying to hold the keeper liable; missing the deadline does not automatically mean the *driver* cannot be held liable, for example.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Jun 19, 12:08 PM
    • 15,182 Posts
    • 15,841 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 19, 12:08 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 19, 12:08 PM
    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so if you think you are being unfairly penalised complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Jun 19, 12:17 PM
    • 40,488 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 19, 12:17 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jun 19, 12:17 PM
    Everyone is asked to read up on this in the newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum before starting a new thread

    Go there now to get an understanding of the game you are now caught up in and how to deal with this

    Your specific question is answered there!
    • martinbuckley
    • By martinbuckley 13th Jun 19, 1:33 PM
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    martinbuckley
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 19, 1:33 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 19, 1:33 PM
    Ok, so I googled it and on the following link:

    http://parkingfine-appeals.co.uk/keeper-liability-explained/

    For ANPR tickets, para 7 says:

    "A notice to keeper must be served not later than 14 days after the vehicle was parked"

    Does that mean that a NTK dated 7 weeks after the alleged offence has broken their own rule?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jun 19, 1:35 PM
    • 17,820 Posts
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    KeithP
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 19, 1:35 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 19, 1:35 PM
    Does that mean that a NTK dated 7 weeks after the alleged offence has broken their own rule?
    Originally posted by martinbuckley
    It simply means that they cannot transfer the driver's liability to the keeper. That's all.

    You haven't told us who the parking company is, but if they are a BPA AOS member then the BPA allows them up to seven months after the incident to issue a Notice to Keeper.
    .
    • martinbuckley
    • By martinbuckley 13th Jun 19, 2:02 PM
    • 1,083 Posts
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    martinbuckley
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:02 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:02 PM
    Ipserv - Company Number 10633959
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Jun 19, 2:03 PM
    • 40,556 Posts
    • 90,069 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:03 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 19, 2:03 PM
    Ok, so I googled it and on the following link:

    http://parkingfine-appeals.co.uk/keeper-liability-explained/

    For ANPR tickets, para 7 says:

    "A notice to keeper must be served not later than 14 days after the vehicle was parked"

    Does that mean that a NTK dated 7 weeks after the alleged offence has broken their own rule?
    Originally posted by martinbuckley
    The problem with using a source other than the act itself is that people often misquote or misunderstand it, which is why you were pointed towards the PoFA 2012 itself, not another website's interpretation of it.
    In your case it doesn't matter as the dates are miles outside the requirements, but the quote on that site is actually out by one day as the PoFA actually refers to 14 days beginning with the day after that of the alleged event.
    In other words the date of the alleged event is day zero.

    This is an act of parliament, not a parking scammers' own rule. They don't actually have any rules because they are unregulated.

    As above, it means that the keeper cannot be held liable, but it won't stop the scammers from trying.

    This assumes there was no NTD issued.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 13-06-2019 at 2:10 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Jun 19, 2:09 PM
    • 40,556 Posts
    • 90,069 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Ipserv - Company Number 10633959
    Originally posted by martinbuckley
    BPA member, so PoPLA is available.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Jun 19, 1:32 AM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,714 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Ok, so I googled it and on the following link:

    http://parkingfine-appeals.co.uk/keeper-liability-explained/

    For ANPR tickets, para 7 says:

    "A notice to keeper must be served not later than 14 days after the vehicle was parked"

    Does that mean that a NTK dated 7 weeks after the alleged offence has broken their own rule?
    Originally posted by martinbuckley
    No. This is all covered in the NEWBIES thread already:
    Want to dig deeper? Check the compliance of your Notice to Keeper, if the PPC is citing 'keeper liability' under the POFA. Here's a link to Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 which applies in England/Wales only (look for the words shown in paragraph 8 if it's a 'windscreen ticket followed by a NTK', or the words in paragraph 9 if it's a postal PCN only):

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

    If the NTK arrives late, this does not make the PCN 'void' but it means there is 'no keeper liability' possible.

    If they are a firm which alleges 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012 (which they don't have to!) the a postal PCN must arrive by day 14 if there was no windscreen ticket.

    Or, the NTK must arrive with you between day 29 and day 57 if there was a windscreen PCN.

    Some firms (e.g. Civil Enforcement, Highview, Smart Parking and some small PPCs) don't even bother with POFA 2012 wording so the keeper is not liable if you point that out to POPLA.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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