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  • FIRST POST
    • SHang10
    • By SHang10 12th Jun 19, 2:24 PM
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    SHang10
    Mortgages sold in run up to the finacial crash and subequent actions
    • #1
    • 12th Jun 19, 2:24 PM
    Mortgages sold in run up to the finacial crash and subequent actions 12th Jun 19 at 2:24 PM
    Afternoon MSE forum.

    I’m currently in the middle of a case which has been brought about by a Mortgage Company Oakwood Home loans (originally GMAC) who have contact me via my sister about a mortgage I had that was repossessed during the financial crash. This company contacted my sister as they saw that my name was on her mortgage (she is a single parent and needed someone else on her mortgage to be able to get her mortgage) my name was on her mortgage before I had bought my own property which was in my name only and subsequently repossessed when I lost my job during the financial crash. This company has now taken my sister to court by trying to get money out of her because of the flat I had repossessed during the financial crash

    What makes this matter much worse is that the flat I originally bought was via a company called GMAC and via an agent I was later informed was a criminal and was known to the authorities. He had essential visited many local churches in London saying that he could help get people onto the housing ladder by purchasing flats in Cardiff if they had good credit ratings. I was one of around 100 people that bought flats via this agent who had asked for £6000 as a deposit to buy one of these flats and they were all in the same block in Newport Road, Cardiff. There was an element of trust because this person was met at a local church but it wasn’t until the flats had completed that all came to light in that that flats were priced at £175,000 for a one bedroom flat in Cardiff but were not actually worth the amount he had said and the mortgages which I was told would have a repayment of around £450 ended up being over £1200 a month. When myself and other approached the agent, he became very aggressive and then from what we know went on the run with his American accomplice as he was being investigated (as we later found out). At the time I sought legal advice and I was told there was nothing that could be done and I would have to wait 2 years until the mortgage rate changed or I could sell at a loss. I believe pretty much all of the people who bought the properties ended up being repossessed during these two years and I was one of the last to be repossessed as I was able to keep up with the high payments a bit longer than most as I was single at the time. Many of the people who were repossessed were understandably furious as we had not only lost allot of money but also our credit ratings were now very bad. I had fought to keep the property offering to pay what I could until I had found work and at first the company agreed, and then out of the blue I was told that they now actually wanted to seek repossession of the flat and they actually went to court without informing me the first time. When I sought legal advice, I was told that with so many repossessions happening at the time there was little that could be done apart from walk away. I was also told that there was little I could do regarding the original agent and that I should be thankful that I was young enough to buy again in the future as many of the people who had bought from this agent were old and had bought for their retirements and would unlikely recover from the repossession because they were too old to work again. I was also told that it was unlikely I would hear anything from the mortgage company as they had enforced repossessions on all of the flats in the same block and would likely be after the insurance of the mortgages. During the time of the repossession the mortgages changed hands from GMAC to Oakwood Homeloans.

    Years later my sister receives a letter saying that she is being taken to court for because of the flat in my name that was repossessed back in 2010. Oakwood via a company called Optima Legal had said that because my name was on my sisters’ mortgage that I had a beneficial interest in her house so they were going after her house for the old mortgage I had with GMAC. I was again informed again when seeking legal advice that this would be quick case and that the fact I had paid nothing towards my sisters flat would show that I was not an owner of her flat. The first judge attempted to throw the case out but Opitma Legal requested more time so the case was adjourned. When the case went back to court it was another judge who up held the court order saying that I was in fact the owner of my sisters flat because my name appeared first (Mr and Ms ). This case has been going on for a number of years now and has cost over 28K in legal fees.

    I brought the case to the FCA who have been looking at it for over a year and the last letter I received from them apologised to me for the amount of time it has taken to investigate because they themselves have been inundated with cases. Upon investigating things myself I also found that GMAC were in fact fined the largest fine for mortgage fraud themselves by the FCA and even worse it appears that they sold the mortgages to Oakwood Homeloans but appeared to be operating through the same building and address as previously which I always found a bit confusing at the time. When I brought this to the FCA I was told by the call handler that he thought I should raise a case complaining about the handling of the case by the FCA (which is moved to an independent body) which is all fine and good but all of this takes time and whilst the case is still going on it seems like Oakwood are likely to get money from my sister or worse still she is now considering selling her house to get the court order off her property and give them the money as she is losing the will to fight any longer.

    I have also seen that others had previously been affected by the actions of GMAC and the way they operated which can be found online via simple searches

    This whole situation as you can imagine is bringing my family to breaking point and I am completely dismayed that this company is even allowed to do something like this but I am seriously running about of money trying to defend the case whilst getting the original mortgage investigated.

    I have been told to inform the press about this case which I have done this week but am in need of urgent assistance because I think my case is probably not the only one like this where a mortgage company has the money to continually chase in court whereas most people don’t have that finance available. What makes matters worse is that Oakwood Homeloans was bought by Credit Suisse who are also now under investigation for their handling of loans in Mozambique. I have written to Credit Suisse also about this case and they have shown no interest the case.

    Any help that can be provided is very welcome because I think this case is an illustration of how mortgage companies can get away with acting fraudulently simply because most people can’t afford to fight them in the courts. I am in-between very angry and dismayed that this is even allowed to happen and that a mortgage company who has acted fraudulently is getting away with it scot free when it appears that a clear breach of practice has taken place and the FCA’s slow response means that my sister is likely going to have to sell her house to pay the money that they are requesting which I am horrified at and she is beyond consolable

    I wondered if anyone else has had or having a similar experience and could offer any advice

    I've also been advised to consider trying and get press coverage as I've been told that the dynamic of the case would be of interest to people, so wondered if anyone has experince in taking their case to a place to gain that type of attention, or any programes that look into the practices and ethics of companies.

    I have taken the advice to write to my local MP which I have.

    Thanks any asistance in advance
    Last edited by SHang10; 12-06-2019 at 8:35 PM.
Page 1
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 12th Jun 19, 4:09 PM
    • 5,106 Posts
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    foxy-stoat
    • #2
    • 12th Jun 19, 4:09 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jun 19, 4:09 PM
    Your better off, if you havent already to seek paid legal advice on this.

    By being on the mortgage and deeds of your sister you are jointly and severally liable for her debt as well as any equity in her property, even though you paid £0.00 towards it.

    Maybe worth finding out if you are Joint Tenants or Tenants in Common with unequal shares by way of a Deed of Trust, if you had one drawn up at the time.

    One of the downsides being on someone else's mortgage I suppose.

    Good luck, you will need all of it.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 12th Jun 19, 4:46 PM
    • 13,121 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #3
    • 12th Jun 19, 4:46 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jun 19, 4:46 PM
    There's a lot of text here, but I can't see what the fraud by GMAC was?
    • SHang10
    • By SHang10 12th Jun 19, 8:34 PM
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    SHang10
    • #4
    • 12th Jun 19, 8:34 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jun 19, 8:34 PM
    GMAC were fined for essentially reposessing people early. Ive seen that they were apparently fined the highest amount by the FCA at the time. They then offloaded all of these Mortgages to Oakwood Homeloans and Mortgage Express from what I can see. However it appears that the people handling these mortgages in the call centres were the same as before and continued to force reposessions early ( a complaint made against Oakwood Homeloans) .So the same orginal GMAC mortgages that were being repossessed early ( which it is believed was so the mortgage company could claim the insurance on the full amount of the mortgage) were continng the practice of forcing others into repossesions early by the same people handling the mortgages but under a different morgage company name.
    • SHang10
    • By SHang10 12th Jun 19, 8:38 PM
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    SHang10
    • #5
    • 12th Jun 19, 8:38 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Jun 19, 8:38 PM
    Yes I am currently being assisted by the CAB, they were the ones who suggested I write to my local MPand also write to this forum.
    Sorry I realised that I missed off the last couple of paragraphs in my orginal post.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 13th Jun 19, 7:47 AM
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    silvercar
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 19, 7:47 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Jun 19, 7:47 AM
    GMAC were fined for essentially reposessing people early.
    Were they ordered to compensate people? Let's be clear here, they weren't repossessing before people built up arrears, they were repossessing customers who went into arrears, maybe hastily, but still it was the customers who failed to keep their side of the mortgage.

    Reading your initial post, I thought you were complaining that they were involving your sister's property, where you were just a name on the mortgage and held no beneficial interest, rather than complaining about the repossession.

    The first judge attempted to throw the case out but Opitma Legal requested more time so the case was adjourned. When the case went back to court it was another judge who up held the court order saying that I was in fact the owner of my sisters flat because my name appeared first (Mr and Ms ). This case has been going on for a number of years now and has cost over 28K in legal fees.
    Taking your understandable bias out:
    1. the first judge agreed to give the complainant extra time
    2. the second judge agreed the court order.

    I find it difficult to believe that the only reason the judge agreed you have equity was because your name appeared first!

    ....Oakwood are likely to get money from my sister or worse still she is now considering selling her house to get the court order off her property and give them the money as she is losing the will to fight any longer....
    The obvious answer is for your sister to wait until your legal case has finished. The charging order will sit on the property, but won't force a sale.

    I would be looking at dates carefully. The CML (council of mortgage lenders) says anyone whose property was repossessed and sold and who has not been contacted by their lender within six years from the date of the sale will not be asked to pay the shortfall.

    Random page of info on this here (not suggesting you contact that website.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 13th Jun 19, 8:04 AM
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    davidmcn
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 19, 8:04 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 19, 8:04 AM
    GMAC were fined for essentially repossessing people early.
    Originally posted by SHang10
    That isn't "fraud" - unless you're claiming that they were manufacturing the borrowers' mortgage arrears?
    • Brock_and_Roll
    • By Brock_and_Roll 13th Jun 19, 8:07 AM
    • 987 Posts
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    Brock_and_Roll
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 19, 8:07 AM
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 19, 8:07 AM
    OP - sound advice from Silvercar there!

    Need to forget about all the church part - its in the past and not relevant to current situation i.e. you owe GMAC money from a shortfall they suffered from an historic repossession.

    GMAC - may have been a lot of things and were very very much a symbol of the mortgage credit boom & bust....but they were not fraudulent and alleging fraud is potentially libelous and could work against you.
    • Kentish Dave
    • By Kentish Dave 14th Jun 19, 3:17 PM
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    Kentish Dave
    • #9
    • 14th Jun 19, 3:17 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Jun 19, 3:17 PM
    I’m not clear what the question is here. You owned a house with a mortgage on it, failed to pay and it was repossessed, right?

    If so the mortgage company has twelve years to pursue the debt. What’s the legal question?
    • Kentish Dave
    • By Kentish Dave 14th Jun 19, 3:22 PM
    • 806 Posts
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    Kentish Dave
    And adding, in what conceivable way does Credit Suisse’s business in Mozambique matter?

    You may be best to have your sister buy you out of your half of the equity and using the money to settle the debt.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 14th Jun 19, 6:05 PM
    • 64,860 Posts
    • 57,226 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    my name was on her mortgage before I had bought my own property which was in my name only and subsequently repossessed when I lost my job during the financial crash.
    Did you declare the equity in the property at the time your own property was repossesed.
    “If the financial system has a defect, it is that it reflects and magnifies what we human beings are like. Money amplifies our tendency to overreact, to swing from exuberance when things are going well to deep depression when they go wrong. Booms and busts are products, at root, of our emotional volatility.”
    ― Niall Ferguson
    • SHang10
    • By SHang10 30th Jul 19, 11:55 PM
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    SHang10
    Update
    Evening Forum, and thanks for the replies. The initial post was to provide as much detail as possible regarding the case and the background for how Mortgage companies and investment banks work together.

    The main point of my complaint concerns the fact that GMAC were fined for aggressively repossessing customers which was in breach of the laws concerning dealing fairly with customers especially those with payment shortfalls

    I am unable to paste links but if you google
    "GMAC fined £2.8m for 'mistreating' mortgage customers and you will see the article.

    These mortgages were subsequently sold to Oakwood Homeloans and Mortgage Express however the call handlers and people dealing with the mortgage paperwork were the same people as previous and they continued the same practice of forcibly repossessing through Oakwood Homeloans and Mortgage Express. When I got my original Mortgage through GMAC a friend of mine also bought his flat, we used the same agent etc. His GMAC mortgage ended up with Mortgage Express and mine Oakwood Homeloans but on more than one occasion the call handlers answered the phone saying the wrong mortgage name, ie Mortgage Express when I was calling about my Oakwood Homeloans mortgage. The actual codes for the mortgages on the paperwork were practically the same but these were supposed to be two separate companies, I know this because I have seen my friends mortgage documentation so its obvious they were using the same office. Surely it is not legal for GMAC to get fined and sell their mortgages to another company but the people handling the phone calls and paperwork are the same as before but now operating under a different name?

    I'm not sure if anyone watched the case on the Victoria Derbyshire about three weeks ago on 05th July where a guy Julian Watts had been repossessed by Mortgage Express and it has been shown the company had been forging signatures on multiple legal documents as they pushed through forced repossessions on a raft of repossessions.

    Again i can't paste the link but if you type into google

    "Government-owned bank 'forging signatures' in repossession cases"

    you will see the article and video on the BBC from the 5th of this month. It is believed there are other companies that used this practice.

    This is now being looked at by the Treasury Select Committee because it has been shown many companies like Mortgage Express and other mortgage companies had been taking illegal shortcuts to force repossessions and there is a case where this has been found on a large scale in the United States. I know that Mortgage Express and Oakwood Homeloands operated out of the same Skipton address using the same people to handle their calls, paperwork and repossessions and would be interesting to see if this present case ends up involving them. Either way it is the belief that they continued the practice for which the previous company had just been fined for and this is a breach of conduct.

    Concerning my case the CAB advised that they feel there is a case to answer concerning the validity of the subsequent court order because the original repossession maybe suspect due to the manor of the repossession, they point to the fact that I had my original payment plan cancelled without my knowledge and repossession proceedings were issued even though I had an agreed payment plan. This I thought was me only but its has turned out that many were forcible repossessed who had payment plans in place. They has suggested I submit a N244 to suspend the original court order whilst it can be looked into if the people were in fact the same people who had continued the practice of forcing repossessions early.

    Unfortunately my sister doesn't want to continuing fighting and now said she wants to sell the property as the stress has been too much for her which is a shame. The CAB said to send the form in urgently and get a judge to look at the evidence to see if my repossession was fairly completed in line with the rules so am doing that.
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