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  • FIRST POST
    • scriptkiddie
    • By scriptkiddie 9th Jun 19, 8:49 AM
    • 6Posts
    • 1Thanks
    scriptkiddie
    claim form from BW legal defence
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 19, 8:49 AM
    claim form from BW legal defence 9th Jun 19 at 8:49 AM
    Did the usual. Acknowledge form giving me 33 days. Now drafting defence

    Had a PCN two years ago from PPS for no valid permit at my partners parking space where I park all the time. Ignored it and now it has caught up with me

    Is it worth mentioning in my defence that Landlord 1 no longer runs the association flats it was parked at and is now owned by Landlord 2?

    Could I also mention how PPS ignored emails I sent to them?

    Also in the middle of trying to find tenancy contract to see what it says about parking
Page 1
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 9th Jun 19, 1:17 PM
    • 17,988 Posts
    • 21,957 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #2
    • 9th Jun 19, 1:17 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jun 19, 1:17 PM
    What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

    Did it come from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton, or from somewhere else?
    .
    • scriptkiddie
    • By scriptkiddie 9th Jun 19, 3:22 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    scriptkiddie
    • #3
    • 9th Jun 19, 3:22 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Jun 19, 3:22 PM
    23/05/2019 yes the County Court Business Centre in Northampton
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 9th Jun 19, 3:38 PM
    • 17,988 Posts
    • 21,957 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #4
    • 9th Jun 19, 3:38 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Jun 19, 3:38 PM
    23/05/2019 yes the County Court Business Centre in Northampton
    Originally posted by scriptkiddie
    With a Claim Issue Date of 23rd May, and having done the Acknowledgement of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 25th June 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's over two weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:
    1. Print your Defence.
    2. Sign it and date it.
    3. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to keep you under pressure.
    8. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jun 19, 12:12 AM
    • 76,841 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 19, 12:12 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Jun 19, 12:12 AM
    Is it worth mentioning in my defence that Landlord 1 no longer runs the association flats it was parked at and is now owned by Landlord 2?

    Could I also mention how PPS ignored emails I sent to them?

    Also in the middle of trying to find tenancy contract to see what it says about parking
    Just base it on bargepole's concise residential defence, tweaking it to suit as you are not a resident as such, but an authorised visitor.

    You can add detail at WS stage.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • scriptkiddie
    • By scriptkiddie 12th Jun 19, 4:26 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    scriptkiddie
    • #6
    • 12th Jun 19, 4:26 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Jun 19, 4:26 PM
    OK here is my draft. I'm also not too sure about that last paragraph can I word it better? Also I didn't mention much about signange based on Bargepole's defence because there are signs all over the place, well-lit, and I practically park next to one

    Here goes:



    It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of vehicle registration number REG NO on the material date. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

    From the Defendant's research, the flats appear to be Housing Association owned. The Claimant is not a Housing Association and is put to strict proof that it had sufficient interest in the land or that there were specific terms in its contract to bring an action on its own behalf. As a third party agent, the Claimant may not pursue any charge, unless specifically authorised by the principal. The Defendant has the reasonable belief that the Claimant did not have any authority or right to bring any action in their own name.

    !Even if the Court is minded to believe a contract was formed by the 2014 signs, the POFA 2012 does not permit the Claimant to recover a sum greater than the parking charge on the day before a Notice to Keeper was issued. That sum cannot have exceeded the BPA CoP ceiling of £100 and the Claimant cannot recover additional charges and their Notice to Keeper document failed on all counts. The Defendant cannot be held liable for any sum at all.

    The Claimant has inexplicably added 'contractual costs' bolted onto the alleged PCN, despite using a solicitor to file the claim, who must be well aware that the CPR 27.14 does not permit such charges to be recovered in the Small Claims Court. In any event, the Beavis case confirmed that a parking firm not in possession cannot plead their case in damages and could only collect the already inflated parking charge (in that case, £85) which more than covered the very minimal costs of running an automated/template letter parking regime.

    The Claimant is put to strict proof to show how any alleged costs/damages have been incurred and that it formed a prominent, legible part of any terms on signage, and that it was, in fact, expended. To add vague damages plus alleged 'legal costs' on top is a wholly disingenuous attempt at double recovery, and the Defendant is alarmed by this gross abuse of process.

    The Defendant invites the court to strike out the claim as having no prospect of success. Alternatively, the Defendant requests the court to order the Claimant to provide Further and Better Particulars of Claim and allow the Defendant to respond.

    It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. In summary, it is the Defendant's position that the poorly pleaded claim discloses no cause of action, is without merit, and has no real prospect of success.

    !It is denied that the Defendant or lawful users of his/her vehicle were in breach of any parking conditions or were not permitted to park in circumstances where an express permission to park had been granted to the Defendant permitting the above mentioned vehicle to be parked by the current occupier and leaseholder of ADDRESSt, whose tenancy agreement permits the parking of vehicle(s) on land. The Defendant avers that there was an absolute entitlement to park deriving from the terms of the lease, which cannot be fettered by any alleged parking terms. The lease terms provide the right to park a vehicle in the relevant allocated bay, without limitation as to type of vehicle, ownership of vehicle, the user of the vehicle or the requirement to display a parking permit. A copy of the lease will be provided to the Court, together with witness evidence that prior permission to park had been given.

    7. The Defendant avers that the operatorís signs cannot (i) override the existing rights enjoyed by residents and their visitors and (ii) that parking easements cannot retrospectively and unilaterally be restricted where provided for within the lease. The Defendant will rely upon the judgments on appeal of HHJ Harris QC in!Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd!(2016) and of Sir Christopher Slade in!K-Sultana Saeed v Plustrade Ltd![2001] EWCA Civ 2011. The Court will be referred to further similar fact cases in the event that this matter proceeds to trial.

    Any contract the claiment had was with landlord LANDLORD at the time of DATE. LANDLORD 2 have since become the new landlord from DATE. Therefore any claim on the behalf of LANDLORD 1 is null and void


    I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.



    Name

    Signature

    Date
    Last edited by scriptkiddie; 12-06-2019 at 5:13 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jun 19, 12:48 AM
    • 76,841 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 19, 12:48 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 19, 12:48 AM
    I think these are your main points to hang your hat on, so they should go up to be put after your second paragraph, so that these are paras #3, #4 and #5:
    - It is denied that the Defendant or lawful users of his/her vehicle were in breach of any parking conditions or were not permitted to park in circumstances where an express permission to park had been granted to the Defendant permitting the above mentioned vehicle to be parked by the current occupier and leaseholder of ADDRESSt, whose tenancy agreement permits the parking of vehicle(s) on land. The Defendant avers that there was an absolute entitlement to park deriving from the terms of the lease, which cannot be fettered by any alleged parking terms. The lease terms provide the right to park a vehicle in the relevant allocated bay, without limitation as to type of vehicle, ownership of vehicle, the user of the vehicle or the requirement to display a parking permit. A copy of the lease will be provided to the Court, together with witness evidence that prior permission to park had been given.

    - The Defendant avers that the operator’s signs cannot (i) override the existing rights enjoyed by residents and their visitors and (ii) that parking easements cannot retrospectively and unilaterally be restricted where provided for within the lease. The Defendant will rely upon the judgments on appeal of HHJ Harris QC in Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd (2016) and of Sir Christopher Slade in K-Sultana Saeed v Plustrade Ltd [2001] EWCA Civ 2011. The Court will be referred to further similar fact cases in the event that this matter proceeds to trial.

    - Any contract the claiment had was with landlord LANDLORD at the time of DATE. LANDLORD 2 have since become the new landlord from DATE. Therefore any claim on the behalf of LANDLORD 1 is null and void
    You also need to number every paragraph and spell-check your defence (a couple of typos picked out in red above but they may not be all of them).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 13th Jun 19, 8:39 AM
    • 6,716 Posts
    • 6,807 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 19, 8:39 AM
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 19, 8:39 AM
    Might be worth looking at a couple of threads from today/yesterday about courts throwing out claims for abuse of process where the PPC/solicitor has added the mythical £60 additional costs.


    Here is one such!
    Last edited by Le_Kirk; 13-06-2019 at 8:41 AM.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Jun 19, 8:46 AM
    • 15,307 Posts
    • 15,961 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 19, 8:46 AM
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 19, 8:46 AM
    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • scriptkiddie
    • By scriptkiddie 13th Jun 19, 5:15 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    scriptkiddie
    I think these are your main points to hang your hat on, so they should go up to be put after your second paragraph, so that these are paras #3, #4 and #5:
    You also need to number every paragraph and spell-check your defence (a couple of typos picked out in red above but they may not be all of them).
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Updated. Thanks

    only problem now is this one

    It is denied that the Defendant or lawful users of his/her vehicle were in breach of any parking conditions or were not permitted to park in circumstances where an express permission to park had been granted to the Defendant permitting the above mentioned vehicle to be parked by the current occupier and leaseholder of ADDRESSt, whose tenancy agreement permits the parking of vehicle(s) on land. The Defendant avers that there was an absolute entitlement to park deriving from the terms of the lease, which cannot be fettered by any alleged parking terms. The lease terms provide the right to park a vehicle in the relevant allocated bay, without limitation as to type of vehicle, ownership of vehicle, the user of the vehicle or the requirement to display a parking permit. A copy of the lease will be provided to the Court, together with witness evidence that prior permission to park had been given.


    Still no luck actually finding the agreement. Even asked neighbours as it's one size fits all, still no luck. All I have is a book or two, proved by the landlord simply giving basic instructions on do's and don'ts where parking is briefly mentioned. Worst case scenario, could I use them and tweak the above paragraph differently?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jun 19, 5:27 PM
    • 76,841 Posts
    • 90,197 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes, you will have plenty of time to get a copy of the tenancy terms. Did you use a letting agent? Maybe they have a copy.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • scriptkiddie
    • By scriptkiddie 15th Jun 19, 9:50 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    scriptkiddie
    Housing Association, i'm sure I could get one

    Last point is this paragraph

    Any contract the claimant had was with landlord LANDLORD at the time of DATE. LANDLORD 2 have since become the new landlord from DATE. Therefore any claim on the behalf of LANDLORD 1 is null and void

    Could I structure this better or make it sound better? It seems like half a job
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jun 19, 12:58 PM
    • 76,841 Posts
    • 90,197 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes you could use it to explain that this means the Claimant has no legitimate interest in pursuing a claim and the ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis case is distinguished in all facts and detail.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • scriptkiddie
    • By scriptkiddie 12th Jul 19, 5:57 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    scriptkiddie
    UPDATE

    Got a letter from BW legal saying that PPS want to continue the claim and that BW legal have notified the court. Shall I get typing my witness statement?
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