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  • FIRST POST
    • venousdata
    • By venousdata 6th Jun 19, 1:09 PM
    • 41Posts
    • 12Thanks
    venousdata
    Help needed - ukpc 9 parking charge notices, 7 at debt collection, 2 appealed
    • #1
    • 6th Jun 19, 1:09 PM
    Help needed - ukpc 9 parking charge notices, 7 at debt collection, 2 appealed 6th Jun 19 at 1:09 PM
    HI everyone! TLDR at bottom.

    I'm annoyed I hadn't discovered this forum until a few days ago - the advice here is great!
    I've had a read over the newbie thread and my case seems to differ from the points raised there, and I now realise I've made a few mistakes in terms of getting past these 'charges'.

    So I recently moved to a new location with a private permit holder only car park. we have allocated spaces but with two cars in the household we sometimes need to park in the visitors bay.

    Anyway, long story short, since moving in on September 2018 I've been parking beside a green shed for recycling bins on occasion when no other spaces were available, and have unknowingly racked up quite a few charges. I had forgotten to change the address on my logbook (which I've since done last week) so the charges were sent to an old address!!

    The only way I found out about them was by calling UKPC and asking, since a few neighbours were complaining that one of the residents were taking photos of their cars and sending them to UKPC and advised that he may have done the same to my car.

    Unfortunately by the time I called I had a total of 9 charges, 6 of which had gone to debt collection. I denied owning any money to UKPC and told them that no contract agreement had been entered in to or breached.

    Since then, another charge has gone to debt collection, so I've only managed to appeal the two most recent ones.

    The main mistake I made is on both of the recent appeals, I had identified myself as the driver AND registered keeper of the vehicle, but had still maintained my innocence and made sure to deny the owed debt incurred from these 'invoices'.

    My neighbours are in the same dilemma (less charges, however) and intend to fight back and go to court if need be, we are all willing to provide witness statements for each other to corroborate that the person taking photos of our vehicles, did so fraudulently, by shutting our vehicle doors while we were unloading shopping and is stalking us with threatening behaviour (he actually verbally assaulted one of my neighbours and aggressively put his hands in her face, leaving her 'worried for her safety and afraid to go outside' .

    We have also all emailed the landowners and complained to UKPC and intend to carry on until they give up or take us to court.

    My question is, can I still get out of this despite, having the charges sent to an old address due to not updating my log book for over half a year, identifying myself as the registered keeper AND driver, and not appealing the first 7 charges?? I think I've done everything else right as I've denied owning any money or entering in to any agreement/breaking any contract etc.

    Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.

    TLDR: Accrued 9 charges from UKPC in a permit holder only car park at my new address due to not updating my log book from old address in over half a year. Only managed to appeal the most recent 2 charges as I was unaware of the rest at the time of receiving them.
    Also identified myself as the registered keeper AND driver of the vehicle when writing my appeal to UKPC. Only 2 out of 9 charges were appealed. Can I still get out of paying??
    Last edited by venousdata; 06-06-2019 at 1:10 PM. Reason: remove smiley from TLDR
Page 2
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 6th Jun 19, 8:18 PM
    • 3,435 Posts
    • 5,315 Thanks
    NeilCr
    Witness statements are good, especially if you all make a pact to attend each other's hearings if at all possible, to give oral evidence to support each other's story.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Absolutely

    If you are all getting tickets for unloading and then moving your vehicles elsewhere once done then this person is rather more than over zealous. As Fruitcake says, I'd have been on to the police about him.

    I read your post as that you may have left your car for long periods parked by the bin store.
    Last edited by NeilCr; 06-06-2019 at 9:09 PM.
    • venousdata
    • By venousdata 8th Jun 19, 3:09 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    venousdata
    Hi All, just a quick update as I didn't want to unnecessarily create a second thread.

    I am yet to receive any correspondence in the post form UKPC/Debt Collection Plus and had a few questions regarding that:

    1. Is an email to DPO/Complaints@UKparkingcontrol.com adequate? or should I also be writing to them?

    2. In the car park of the alleged offence, there is a sign at the gate, but this is not very visible from within a car. They have strategically placed it just left of the passenger side of the car, rather than on a wall to the right of the driver's window. Could this be a valid point in a potential future defence?

    3. On close inspection, in the large car park there are two signs that instruct drivers to park within designated bays, but this text is extremely small and definitely non-visible from within a vehicle. Could this be another defence? even if the vehicle was not parked in a designated bay the the time of the alleged offence?

    4. If UKPC fail to rectify/erase my details, and ultimately send their court documents to the old address, is there anything I can do about this? I fear that I may miss court documents and receive a CCJ without even knowing due to them not adhering to GDPR etc.

    5. From what photographic evidence I have seen, the photographs are taken seconds apart from each other. There is little evidence that the vehicle was in that spot for any longer than a minute. Would I be able to argue this point in court if need be?

    6. Finally, i have the following email I am about to send to my local MP, any criticism would be greatly appreciated! See below:

    Dear MP,

    I am writing to you to express my fear, anger, frustration and disgust at the way I am being treated by UKPC and/or their servants.

    I have lived in ________ for just shy of one year and have received 9 parking charges for a breach of contract that did not happen. It is the same for multiple neighbours, who are all being stalked by the same person - who knowingly stages his photographs before sending them to UKPC. This man claims to be the "Managing Director" of ________, yet refuses to identify himself.

    Not only are the photographs taken seconds apart (no proof the vehicles were parked there for a long period of time), the vehicles were in the midst of unloading whilst these photos were taken. The "Managing Director" has physically shut the doors of the vehicles for each of his fraudulent photographs to give the impression that they are parked.

    I, and many of my neighbours do not deserve to be stalked and illegally invoiced in this way. We demand that something is done by you and/or your team about this.

    Yours faithfully,

    (me)


    Thanks in advance guys
    Last edited by venousdata; 08-06-2019 at 3:16 PM. Reason: missing point
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 9th Jun 19, 9:44 AM
    • 6,590 Posts
    • 6,623 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    The DPO@ address usually works for submitting SAR requests. If you have told the PPC via email to DPO@ about your new address for service (and instructed them to remove/delete/erase your old address) and they STILL send mail to the old address, you complain to the ICO. In the meantime, is there: -
    1. any reason to suppose they will write to old address
    2. any way you can collect post from old address

    Signs are always a good defence point, particularly if they are small or obscured or illegible. The BPA/IPC cop would have details of what constitutes a "good" sign.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 9th Jun 19, 9:57 AM
    • 3,435 Posts
    • 5,315 Thanks
    NeilCr
    When you say managing director are you saying that the property owners own the freehold - and there is a residents Management Company in place?

    I am a bit confused about this as you said you contacted the landowner. Who is that?

    I also remain confused as to whether you were parked as opposed to "just" unloading

    I think your letter to the MP is a bit heavy. Others will advise but I think you need to concentrate on the PPC and what has gone through Parliament not on this individual. It's personal taste but, in the first instance, I wouldn't demand -I'd ask for help.
    • venousdata
    • By venousdata 9th Jun 19, 10:08 AM
    • 41 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    venousdata
    Ok, I think it may be too early for a SAR request to be made.

    1. I just feel like they would do it out of spite. I called them over a week ago to change my address and they said theyíd get the correspondence sent out to the new address. I called a week later and they denied saying that and insisted they can only send to the registered keepers log book address. I think Iím going to have to call them once or twice a week to check up whether they actually send anything to the new address.

    2. Unfortunately not. I rarely get time to visit it and the last two times I knocked I had no answer.
    • venousdata
    • By venousdata 9th Jun 19, 10:12 AM
    • 41 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    venousdata
    There is a stranger taking photos of vehicles who claims to be the ďmanaging directorĒ of the car park but refuses to identify himself in any way.

    The vehicle was turned off and had the doors shut in the photos so it looks parked, despite being in the midst of unloading. My only proof of this are witness statements from the neighbors.

    Iíll tone my letter down a bit, thanks.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 9th Jun 19, 10:12 AM
    • 6,590 Posts
    • 6,623 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Don't phone - get it all in writing!
    • venousdata
    • By venousdata 9th Jun 19, 3:41 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    venousdata
    Quick update - my neighbour has had his invoice cancelled as UKPC were unable to confirm that an agreed upon contract between the landowner, residents and UKPC currently, or ever existed.
    I now have photographic evidence of this and have been copied in on a long thread of emails proving that UKPC are unable to prove that the "contract" exists. Good news!

    I've now written to my local MP and am going to contact the police regarding the intimidation and stalking from the "Managing Director" who is yet to identify himself.

    The battle is won, but the war goes on. Thank you for your advice so far, everyone!
    Last edited by venousdata; 09-06-2019 at 3:47 PM. Reason: typo
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 9th Jun 19, 4:36 PM
    • 12,525 Posts
    • 17,454 Thanks
    beamerguy
    This is "gently gently catch a monkey"

    Get more evidence about the mystery man, set a trap, take pictures of him being a Managing Director, both his actions and face.
    Then discover where he comes from and where he goes to

    UKPC offer a self ticketing operation and pay £10 commission per ticket. They provide the signs etc.

    That could explain why there is no contract

    At the end of the day, UKPC are responsible for this person. Get a lot evidence who this person is and yes, tell the police about him and get a report number
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Jun 19, 5:43 PM
    • 25,093 Posts
    • 40,464 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Send a complaint to the DVLA that they have been operating without a contract, in flagrant conflict with the requirements of the BPA Code of Practice and therefore breaching their KADOE contract with the DVLA. Ask them to open an investigation urgently.

    UKPC have obtained your personal data from the DVLA without 'reasonable cause' (use those words) and therefore also in breach of DPA and GDPR.

    ccrt@dvla.gov.uk or
    KADOEservice.support@dvla.gov.uk
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 09-06-2019 at 6:01 PM.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • venousdata
    • By venousdata 10th Jun 19, 3:05 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    venousdata
    Can this self-ticketing operation continue to operate without a contract?

    Thanks, I will email DVLA and KADOE today.
    • venousdata
    • By venousdata 12th Jun 19, 10:34 AM
    • 41 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    venousdata
    Hi again,

    UKPC are yet to amend my address for service despite numerous calls, emails and I have now even physically sent mail to three addresses that I found for them (1 PO Box, 2 office addresses).

    I fear that I will miss my Letter before Action and May even miss court deadlines because of this. Is there anything I can do to get them to rectify my address? Or anybody I can complain to to enforce this?

    Iím no longer worries about winning the case as I have tones of proof but am now concerned about missing the case and deadlines all together due to not having access to the old address.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Cheers
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Jun 19, 10:51 AM
    • 12,525 Posts
    • 17,454 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Hi again,

    UKPC are yet to amend my address for service despite numerous calls, emails and I have now even physically sent mail to three addresses that I found for them (1 PO Box, 2 office addresses).

    I fear that I will miss my Letter before Action and May even miss court deadlines because of this. Is there anything I can do to get them to rectify my address? Or anybody I can complain to to enforce this?

    Iím no longer worries about winning the case as I have tones of proof but am now concerned about missing the case and deadlines all together due to not having access to the old address.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Cheers
    Originally posted by venousdata
    Complain directly to the BPA
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jun 19, 11:40 PM
    • 76,465 Posts
    • 89,803 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    UKPC are yet to amend my address for service despite numerous calls, emails and I have now even physically sent mail to three addresses that I found for them (1 PO Box, 2 office addresses).
    Presumably you sent it to their DPO using the contact shown on their privacy page?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • venousdata
    • By venousdata 13th Jun 19, 6:22 AM
    • 41 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    venousdata
    Yes. I mailed it to them also.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 13th Jun 19, 7:19 AM
    • 5,679 Posts
    • 7,253 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Report them to th ICO and, as told, complain to the BPA

    State thei rmember is flagrantly abusing your data by not keeping their records up to date, and you require them to instruct their member to comply with the GDPR and face sanctions for their refusal to do so. A less than possitive response will result in a complaint to the DVLA, asking that UKPC access to the keeper dtabase is restricted as they refuse to comply with their obligations as a data controller.
    • venousdata
    • By venousdata 13th Jun 19, 7:44 AM
    • 41 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    venousdata
    BPA are looking in to my complaint, and I will be complaining to ICO today. I guess for now I will have to just call UKPC to see if any court letters have been sent out?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Jun 19, 7:51 AM
    • 15,182 Posts
    • 15,849 Thanks
    The Deep
    … but with two cars in the household we sometimes need to park in the visitors bay.

    With respect, I would say that you need to dispose of one car, or seek accommodation with two car parking spaces. Surely you researched the parking availability before you signed the AST? Anyone who rents in a place infested by UKPC should expect problems, read these

    https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/324523-ukpc-liable-for-trespass-success/

    https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/324523-ukpc-liable-for-trespass-success/page/2/

    Mr Davey, a barrister, owned the space he parked in, so do not raise your hopes, but it throws light on the nuisance UKPC can be, not to mention their proclivity for fraud.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.htmltshoy

    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    Last edited by The Deep; 13-06-2019 at 7:54 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Jun 19, 12:44 AM
    • 76,465 Posts
    • 89,803 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No-one calls UKPC.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • venousdata
    • By venousdata 14th Jun 19, 12:49 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    venousdata
    Thanks, Iíve complained to my MP. He and his team are looking in to the matter and will update me shortly.

    UKPC have also finally updated my data to reflect the current address for service. Luckily I have not missed any letter before action etc.

    Quick question though,

    Iíve been reading a lot of the defense posts and was wondering if itís possible to begin writing my witness statement and defense before receiving it? Just to avoid having to rush anything last minute.

    Also, what is the correct order of documents I will need to write? I know a witness statement is an expansion of my defense points, but is there anything that needs to be prepared before that stage? Is it too early for me to make a SAR?
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