Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • lipbalm
    • By lipbalm 4th Jun 19, 7:04 AM
    • 19Posts
    • 4Thanks
    lipbalm
    Urgent Advice required - PPM/BW Legal, CCJ Action
    • #1
    • 4th Jun 19, 7:04 AM
    Urgent Advice required - PPM/BW Legal, CCJ Action 4th Jun 19 at 7:04 AM
    Good Morning All

    Kinda hoping its not too late/i can get some advice on an issue im having with Parking and Property management & BW Legal.

    Il try make it simple/short and sweet.

    I was recently forwarded some mail from my old address, where it turns out that I was receiving mail from BW Legal stating that I had 2 outstanding parking tickets and had an overdue amount.

    As it was the first I had heard of the fines and being the registered keeper (at the time car now since sold), I sent in a SAR (which they still managed to post to my old address) to confirm it was my vehicle, which it was.

    I have no idea where these fines came from, but used to share my car with my ex partner who I am not only no longer with, but have no contact with. To make matters worse, she has returned to her country of residence (not in Europe).

    A couple of days ago, i received a letter from BW legal, stating that i had till the 9th of June to make a decision before they requested a court date. Now it being my vehicle and there being some evidence against a potential parking infraction (clear signage), I thought I would save myself the agro and potentially some money, and pay the fine and save myself going to court.

    WHAT A MISTAKE THAT WAS. I thought by paying the fine and avoiding the court date, I would not only save myself the 75 for the court fees (50 solicitor, 25 court fee), but also the agro. Now I have 2 larger than before bills.

    The fines has gone from being to 239 to 279 (I can provide a breakdown if needed).
    I have already filled in the CCJ/MoneyClaim.gov AoS and stated that I accepted part liability, but not filled in anything further on the MoneyClaim.gov site (this was done before completing BW Legals online service where I setup a DD to pay over time, nothing paid as yet).

    I know this is a right royal mess, but I would really appreciate some help with what are my options.

    The way I see it is I have 3 options.
    1) Build a case and tell BW to shove it and see them in court (can I still do this)?
    2) Pay the 2 x 300 quid fines. Learn as a life lesson and move on.
    3) A Scenario I haven’t yet considered?

    Would really appreciate some swift advice.

    Thanks
    Last edited by lipbalm; 05-06-2019 at 10:23 AM.
Page 2
    • lipbalm
    • By lipbalm 5th Jun 19, 11:17 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lipbalm
    Also just read this on the ticket!

    "The vehicle was parked on private property in a
    manner where the driver agreed to pay a parking
    charge as displayed on the signage at the site."

    As i wasnt the driver, but infact the registered keeper, surely im not liable? Surely they would have to prove i was the driver for this to have any merit?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Jun 19, 11:19 PM
    • 76,543 Posts
    • 89,880 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    In that linked case, BW Legal sent the OP someone else's data, but in your case it is just as bad as they've effectively sent someone else (who now lives at the old address) your data file in its entirety and it relates to a sensitive court issue, and they knew your real address.

    Do report them to the ICO in those terms. Can be done by email.

    Also, if the claim continues as a defended case, then you can start a list of ALL the Claimant's unreasonable conduct, and try for larger costs awarded in your favour on the indemnity basis (e.g. your time at 19 per hour LiP rate). Always worth a try by painting that picture at the hearing but that's wayyy in the future for the Autumn I expect.

    Also just read this on the ticket!

    "The vehicle was parked on private property in a
    manner where the driver agreed to pay a parking
    charge as displayed on the signage at the site."

    As i wasnt the driver, but infact the registered keeper, surely im not liable? Surely they would have to prove i was the driver for this to have any merit?
    Originally posted by lipbalm
    Sorry, no, that's standard. The driver ''agreed'' by conduct of parking.

    The ParkingEye v Beavis case is the authority confirming this, and it's binding case law.

    Then the POFA lets a PPC transfer liability to you (a shocking law that supports scammers).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • lipbalm
    • By lipbalm 6th Jun 19, 12:29 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lipbalm
    DD Cancelled, ICO logged, MCOL contacted! Anything else?
    Morning CM.

    Just wanted to say a massive thank you for your help. Youve been a star.

    So i cancelled my DD's today (repeated Errors on BW Legals site when trying to do so), had to try 4 or 5 times (i took screenshots). It also asked for a reason when cancelling, which i just put as full stops (as i had to write something).

    I also sent an email to the ICO & called MCOL on 0300 123 1057 (got through pretty fast) who said that the reason that judgement had been served, was because i had admitted liability to BW Legal! I said that this wasnt the case and that i had not admitted liability. MCOL is now going to write to BW Legal to confirm.

    Now comes the part that worries me......I didnt mention the fact that i had setup a DD! Should i be worried about this bit?

    But at no stage state when completing the DD, did it mention that by doing so, i had admitted guilt/liability. If i had of known that by doing so it would have been considered as an admission of guilt, i wouldnt have done so!

    Not really sure where that leaves me now?! MCOL said they will write to BW legal, so i guess i will see what comes next! TBH, by filling int he DD, the only thing i was only trying to see, was how much it might actually cost me, and if it would give me some more time so i could figure out a plan! This has all come on me so suddenly, that its all a bit of a shock!

    I also havent as yet seen the letters that BW Legal (or PPM) sent me when chasing the debt. Should i ask/submit a SAR from BW/PPM, so that i have this to hand?

    I also note that from my SAR from PPM, there wasnt any communication between PPM & BW. If my name/details was mentioned, i should receive this information? I feel they have provided the bear minimum and could potentially be hiding something!

    2 final questions.

    1) Should i be preparing a statement for the court now? Or should i be waiting for further instructions?
    2) Id rather not go to court or spend my life doing/worrying about this. So should i offer BW/PPM to settle out of court. As i never got the initial tickets or the subsequent followups, would they be open to negotiation? Or should i just shut up?

    Thanks again.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Jun 19, 12:38 PM
    • 76,543 Posts
    • 89,880 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You cancelled the DD so it is not a live DD.

    When you cancel a DD you also need to TELL YOUR BANK as that stops any payment being made under the mandate, which the bank might have been sent already!

    Send a SAR to BW Legal, may as well see their data under the circumstances.

    I also note that from my SAR from PPM, there wasnt any communication between PPM & BW. If my name/details was mentioned, i should receive this information?
    No, a person or company does not have to share their legal advice and exchanges with a solicitor re their case.

    I would follow your phone call to the CCBC up with an email to the usual CCBCAQ email in lots of KeithP's replies, (NOT mentioning the DD) but stating that you did not admit liability, and that the judgment is an error, and that your acknowledgement of service came first anyway so please can they reinstate the 'acknowledged' status immediately (for which the intention was to DEFEND IN FULL, you just misunderstood the boxes) so that you are not compromised and can now submit a defence.

    Then call the CCBC again next week to chase again as you cannot be left with a CCJ.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • lipbalm
    • By lipbalm 6th Jun 19, 8:50 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lipbalm
    Help with Letter to ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk
    Evening CM.

    So i cancelled the payment scheme on the BW legal site (after checking the BW Legal site again tonight, even though it stated "plan pending deletion" on both, it has infact only cancelled 1 and i cant cancel the other, so i may have to call them to get that one cancelled) and also cancelled the DD on my bank account. I have double checked on my online banking and the DD is not active! I will keep an eye on it this month to make sure it doesnt get re-enabled somehow.

    Ironically, i received 2 letters from BW Legal today, in it, it states the following. "Thank you for returning the admission (N9A) form to us with your offer of repayment which has been accepted". It then says, "we have now asked the court to enter Judgement (CCJ) by admission for repayments as follows". Now im pretty sure I never completed the N9A form on the MCOL site. And im 99% sure that i didnt/couldnt have done this from the BW Legal Website!? They cant submit that form 'on my behalf' can they? Or is this them trying to be sneaky so i go with their repayments and dont back out and go to court?

    Anyway. Heres my email to BBCM. What do you think before i send it?

    Dear Sir/Madam

    On the 20/05/2019, I (the defendant) received a letter (issued 16/05/2019) from the County Court Business Centre (CCBC), stating that BW Legal, on behalf of Parking and Property Management are making a claim against myself for failure to pay a Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

    I completed my Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) on the 02/06/2019 stating that i wished to defend the claim and that i would like 28 days to prepare my file.

    I then logged back on the 04/06/2019 to check my case's, where it was stated that that "A judgement was issued against you on 04/06/2019" and that "A Judgement has been entered against you. You cannot respond to the claim at this time but you may apply for the judgement to be set aside." After having done some research, i have ascertained that I have been judged as guilty with the charge, even though I stated in my MCOL application, that 'I intend to defend all of this claim'.

    I today (06/06/2019) have since called The Money Claim Online Helpdesk (0300 123 1057) and explained to them that this isnt the case for both claims.

    Whilst i appreciate that this information will probably make its way to you in due course, i wanted to follow up my call with an email to explain the situation so that there is no confusion and to make sure that the court is kept updated.

    Should you have any questions or concerns, please dont hesitate to contact myself directly and i would be happy to help assist you with your inquiries.


    Iv never really written anything like this before and im dyslexic, so would really appreciate any changes/criticism.
    Last edited by lipbalm; 06-06-2019 at 9:01 PM. Reason: Updating some wording and additional thoughts.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Jun 19, 9:23 PM
    • 76,543 Posts
    • 89,880 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Does MCOL not let you see which boxes you ticked? I am worried you ticked 'admit the claim' because this is what BW Legal have done:

    What happens if the defendant admits the claim?
    If the defendant admits liability (or if they have failed to respond within the time allowed), you can request judgment in your favour via the MCOL website.
    https://www.inbrief.co.uk/claim-preparations/money-claim-online/
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • lipbalm
    • By lipbalm 6th Jun 19, 9:49 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lipbalm
    I can see the option i selected in MCOL
    I have a downloaded the PDFs which is a copy of my AoS and i did select "2. I intend to defend part of this claim" on both claims.

    Not sure if thats good news or bad news? BW have made an assumption its an admission of guilt either because of this, or because of the DD?! Where as the only thing i think im really guilty of is owning the car.

    What do you think of my letter to CCBM......Is it junk?
    • lipbalm
    • By lipbalm 7th Jun 19, 10:56 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lipbalm
    Assistance with email to CCBC updating case
    Looking for some assistance in writing to the CCBM as i need to inform them of the following.

    1) CCBC marked my case as "judged" even though i had submitted as part of my AoS that i intended to defend my case. This was initiated by BW Legal.
    2) I have 2 claims open with BW Legal and i would like them consolidated to make it easier to track and also save the courts time/efforts.

    Any assistance greatly appreciated.

    Dear Sir/Madam

    On the 20/05/2019, I (the defendant) received a letter (issued 16/05/2019) from the County Court Business Centre (CCBC), stating that BW Legal, on behalf of Parking and Property Management are making a claim against myself for failure to pay a Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

    I completed my Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) on the 02/06/2019 stating that i wished to defend the claim and that i would like 28 days to prepare my file.

    I then logged back on the 04/06/2019 to check my case's, where it was stated that that "A judgement was issued against you on 04/06/2019" and that "A Judgement has been entered against you. You cannot respond to the claim at this time but you may apply for the judgement to be set aside." After having done some research, i have ascertained that I have been judged as guilty with the charge, even though I stated in my MCOL application, that 'I intend to defend all of this claim'.

    I today (06/06/2019) have since called The Money Claim Online Helpdesk (0300 123 1057) and explained to them that this isnt the case for both claims.

    Whilst i appreciate that this information will probably make its way to you in due course, i wanted to follow up my call with an email to explain the situation so that there is no confusion and to make sure that the court is kept updated.

    Should you have any questions or concerns, please dont hesitate to contact myself directly and i would be happy to help assist you with your inquiries.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Jun 19, 5:51 PM
    • 76,543 Posts
    • 89,880 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    If there were two claims (were there 2 x n1 forms?) I suggest:


    Dear Sir/Madam

    URGENT - RE CLAIM NOs XXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXX - Judgment in error


    On the 20/05/2019, I received two N1 Claim Forms, which I intend to defend in full. I completed my Acknowledgement of Service on 02/06/2019 and ticked that I wished to defend the claim, and MCOL was updated.

    I have two urgent matters to raise regarding the case management:

    1. I have checked and whilst I see I did select "I intend to defend part of this claim" on both claims, which is incorrect as it's my intention to defend both in full, I did NOT complete any admission (N9A) form, to my knowledge. I had spoken to BW Legal, but I was preparing my defences.

    I then logged back on the 04/06/2019 to check my cases, where it was stated for each claim, that "A judgment was issued against you on 04/06/2019...You cannot respond to the claim at this time but you may apply for the judgement to be set aside."

    On 06/06/2019 I called The MCOL Helpdesk (0300 123 1057) and explained to them that this is an error by the court or you have been misinformed by BW Legal. As such, I believe I should not have to pay 100 to apply to set aside an error made by the Claimant or court who have denied me my choice to defend.

    I am hopeful that under your case management powers the CCBC must be able to put right an error and remove the premature judgment note, as the case was already marked as acknowledged by me with an intention to defend, on 2nd June 2019.

    I felt I must follow up my call with an email to explain the situation, so that there is no confusion. It is my intention to defend both claims in full. I was told that the CCBC was urgently contacting BW Legal who suggested I had completed a N9A, which is not the case.

    2. I realise this matter above may need to be put before a Judge and so I have a second point for the CCBC Judge to consider (relating to allocation of the claims) which is this:

    The Court is invited to take note from the duplicate Particulars (apart from the date of parking event) that the Claimant has issued two claims, numbers XXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXX, against the Defendant at or around the same date, and with substantially identical particulars. It is submitted that this constitutes an abuse of process, making the Defendant potentially liable for two instances of issue fees, solicitor costs, and hearing fees, and runs contrary to the overriding objective of CPR 1.1, the disposal of cases justly and at proportionate cost. The Court is invited to consolidate the claims to be determined at a single hearing, and to apply appropriate sanctions against the Claimant.

    Please reply by email or post by 14th June at the latest. This is urgent because time is of the essence for me, due to these CCJs placed against my file in error.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 07-06-2019 at 5:54 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • lipbalm
    • By lipbalm 11th Jun 19, 1:31 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lipbalm
    Judgement for Claimant letters received.
    Thanks so much for your response CM! I hope you had a great weekend?

    Just an update on what has happened last/this week as im super confused as to what i should to!

    1) I have now received 2 x Judgement for Claimant (ACCEPTANCE) letters for both claims. Even though i called the CCBC last week. Maybe these were sent prior to my call and its a delayed letter. Will i get a followup letter from the CCBC/BW Legal stating that i wish to fight it? Should i contiune to prepare a WS/Defence?

    2) I spoke to a friend who works in the legal industry and explained the situation. He said in his honest opinion, that he thinks that i stand very little chance of winning the case. Whilst hes actually a property lawyer, he seemed quite knowledgeable on CCBC/CCJ's and someone i respect! So i really dont know what to do now.

    3) I spoke to BW Legal asking if they would settle out of court (save legal fees, time, effort, a potential loss) and they said no, as iv already accepted liability by completing the repayment scheme!

    I really dont know what to do now. Im beyond confused and just want this whole saga over.

    Should i pursue fighting it for a lost cause, only to end up in the same situation, or should i just pay and learn my lesson (even though i really cant afford to pay)!? BW Legal said that even if I pay in instalments, the CCJ only disappears only after 6 years (which i really dont want)! My only option is to pay straight away to remove the CCJ! Can anyone confirm?

    Feeling very down and depressed. Dont think i could have handled this any worse !
    Last edited by lipbalm; 11-06-2019 at 1:34 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jun 19, 7:05 PM
    • 76,543 Posts
    • 89,880 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You have 30 days to pay the sum and remove the CCJ. No rushing.

    You gave the court till 14th to reply, and these letters do not reply do they?

    What is a Judgement for Claimant (ACCEPTANCE) letter? Show us.

    We almost never see ANY set aside cases lose, and almost never see any defended parking cases lose. Your legal friend is right n general terms if it had been a normal Claimant with real debts, but what they are not familiar with, is the scum of parking firms and who we win 99% of the time.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • lipbalm
    • By lipbalm 13th Jun 19, 10:21 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lipbalm
    You have 30 days to pay the sum and remove the CCJ. No rushing.

    You gave the court till 14th to reply, and these letters do not reply do they?

    What is a Judgement for Claimant (ACCEPTANCE) letter? Show us.

    We almost never see ANY set aside cases lose, and almost never see any defended parking cases lose. Your legal friend is right n general terms if it had been a normal Claimant with real debts, but what they are not familiar with, is the scum of parking firms and who we win 99% of the time.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thanks CM. The 14th is tomorrow. So not sure where that leaves me! Would i have to respond with a defence? Not quite sure what you mean by "You gave the court till 14th to reply, and these letters do not reply do they?"

    Heres a copy of the letter from CCBC.
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!As5qgKCo0JgPk16EjbUMLHlZMTBo

    I also got this from BW Legal today.
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!As5qgKCo0JgPk18_5l6TC0i5jVKT
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jun 19, 10:33 PM
    • 76,543 Posts
    • 89,880 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I am sorry to say it but I think you are stuffed, as you offered to pay. The BW Legal letter is standard but the court letter shows clearly that BW Legal have proved to the CCBC that you offered to pay 5 a week.

    You said to us you'd never signed an agreement to pay it, but you must have signed something after all. Completely the wrong thing to do and the court have been satisfied that BW Legal have the right to the money in full, which is ludicrous as you'd never have had to pay that if you followed the advice and didn't contact BW Legal.

    You will get a CCJ unless you pay it off in full.

    Instalments mean you will get a CCJ against your name for six years!

    You would be better off as far as your credit rating is concerned (if you want to protect it so you can borrow money, enter into phone contracts, rent or buy property within 6 years) borrowing the sum from a relative or your bank and PAYING BW LEGAL IN FULL.

    Awful state of affairs, sorry to see it.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • lipbalm
    • By lipbalm 14th Jun 19, 12:59 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    lipbalm
    A tale of what NOT to do......
    thanks so much @C-M for all your help and assistance.

    I think you are correct. Its just a sh*t state of affairs and i think tbh, i would just be better off paying and not costing you guys your 99% win ratio ! Hopefully i can cover the cost by picking up some extra shifts!

    Just wanted to thank you again for all your help. You have been amazing! If you have a charity that you can think is a good cause, please let me know and i will donate towards them as way of showing my appreciation for your time (and patience)!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jun 19, 12:27 AM
    • 76,543 Posts
    • 89,880 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Thankyou, and I am so sad to see how this one panned out.

    Cancer Research UK is close to my heart and if anyone I help ever wants to give a donation to them as a thanks, whether they say so here on the forum or just quietly donate to charity, then IMHO it's worth me doing this for free.

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,392Posts Today

7,214Users online

Martin's Twitter