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  • FIRST POST
    • RozJC
    • By RozJC 3rd Jun 19, 4:12 PM
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    RozJC
    Gas Meter ECV means Smart Meter can't be set up
    • #1
    • 3rd Jun 19, 4:12 PM
    Gas Meter ECV means Smart Meter can't be set up 3rd Jun 19 at 4:12 PM
    Hello,


    I had an engineer come over from my energy supplier (EDF) over the weekend to set up my smart meter with my gas supply.


    They came over a couple of weeks ago and set up the electric with the smart meter just fine, but they couldn't do the gas meter that time because it needed a special part



    But when they came for the second time, I was told my gas meter has a certain Emergency Control Valve (ECV) which means they're not allowed to set up a smart meter. To describe my meter...it's underground just outside my flat (it's ground floor and has it's own entrance) and the ECV is a yellow knob that you turn to stop the supply of the gas to my flat. If you want, I can get a picture when I get back home.



    Apparently, I need to get a new gas meter installed by the main gas supplier before they can complete the smart meter setup.


    It's not my responsibility I'm told, so they got in touch with my property manager and left them a message, so I'll probably need to chase that up at some point.


    I just wanted to ask if anyone else had a similar experience as I can't find anything online about this kind of issue or even how much it would cost for a new gas meter installed just out of curiosity.
Page 1
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 3rd Jun 19, 5:39 PM
    • 10,094 Posts
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    Owain Moneysaver
    • #2
    • 3rd Jun 19, 5:39 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Jun 19, 5:39 PM
    Are you sure it's a new meter, or a new ECV that's required?

    The ECV should be fitted with a handle orientated such that it operates to ‘fall to the closed’ position. It has been agreed that where a meter installer encounters an ECV without a handle then where reasonable the meter installers should remedy the situation. The Gas distributor should usually give the meter installers a stock of handles they can fit, but maybe in this case they haven't, or the meter installer can't do it.

    If no handle is available for this type of ECV then the Emergency Control Valve is at risk, in accordance with the Gas Industry Unsafe Situation Procedures (Current edition), pass to the GDN to arrange an appointment with the consumer to rectify.

    http://www.energynetworks.org/assets/files/Guidance%20on%20Gas%20Service%20Termination%20Issu es%20(Issue%205%202017).pdf

    Your gas distributor (probably Cadent Gas, Northern Gas Networks, SGN or Wales & West Utilities) should therefore contact you in due course to arrange an appointment to have your ECV changed. This will be at no cost to you.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 3rd Jun 19, 8:14 PM
    • 367 Posts
    • 213 Thanks
    MeterMan
    • #3
    • 3rd Jun 19, 8:14 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Jun 19, 8:14 PM
    A picture of the ecv would be great, but I think I know the one you're talking about.

    They are usually the stand 3/4inch or 1inch connections. There are lots of types out there though. There could be any number of issues as to why the meter man hasn't fitted the meter, especially in a semi concealed box.

    If the gas transporter deal the tap acceptable and fit for purpose, they wont change it.

    They may be wrongly assuming its a Medium pressure ECV used in a low pressure system (totally fine) but the connections are different.

    Post a pic
    • RozJC
    • By RozJC 4th Jun 19, 10:05 AM
    • 28 Posts
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    RozJC
    • #4
    • 4th Jun 19, 10:05 AM
    • #4
    • 4th Jun 19, 10:05 AM
    Are you sure it's a new meter, or a new ECV that's required?

    Actually, I think you're right and I may have misunderstood. It's likely to be just the ECV that needs changing.


    A picture of the ecv would be great, but I think I know the one you're talking about.

    Here you go: https://photos.app.goo.gl/UvSwqtgJgQ2nwcr9A
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 4th Jun 19, 7:06 PM
    • 367 Posts
    • 213 Thanks
    MeterMan
    • #5
    • 4th Jun 19, 7:06 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Jun 19, 7:06 PM
    Thanks for picture Roz, by the looks of it, it does require a special adaptor. The standardised method for normal meter operations is to use a washer to create the seal between two fittings, that one looks to be a compression type fitting, where they metal just pushes together in a tapered joint. Its unlikely that your gas transporter would change the tap for this as they will say its fit for purpose.

    My company provides fittings for these, but its not EDF and I don't know if EDF have access to these fittings.
    • RozJC
    • By RozJC 6th Jun 19, 1:23 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RozJC
    • #6
    • 6th Jun 19, 1:23 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Jun 19, 1:23 PM
    Thanks for picture Roz, by the looks of it, it does require a special adaptor. The standardised method for normal meter operations is to use a washer to create the seal between two fittings, that one looks to be a compression type fitting, where they metal just pushes together in a tapered joint. Its unlikely that your gas transporter would change the tap for this as they will say its fit for purpose.

    My company provides fittings for these, but its not EDF and I don't know if EDF have access to these fittings.
    Originally posted by MeterMan

    I see. Interesting.


    Thanks for the insight.


    I will see how I get on after speaking to the relevant people.


    Regards
    • RozJC
    • By RozJC 13th Jun 19, 5:21 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RozJC
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 19, 5:21 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jun 19, 5:21 PM
    Hi again,


    An update for anyone interested...


    So, I first tried calling Cadent as EDF suggested and they flat out told me that they're not going to change the ECV unless it's an emergency.


    So I went back to EDF and told them this and then after looking through the engineer's notes from the last vist and talking to some people, they booked me in for another appointment so the engineer can come out and fit it.


    Yesterday, I get another call from EDF telling me that they're going to have to cancel the appointment because apparently their engineers have been told that they are not allowed to touch meters with my kind of ECV on it (they called it a butterfly-type ECV) and that I need to speak to Cadent in order to get it changed.


    I called them this afternoon and once again re-iterated that I already spoke to Cadent and that they're not going to change the ECV on the meter. They said they'll speak to some people and see what's going on.


    Turns out, they sent Cadent round to my place to have a look at my gas meter.



    Cadent have literally just left my property after looking at my gas meter and they've said there's nothing wrong with the ECV and they just need to get the appropriate fitting for it. Also, apparently it's not one of their meters. The visit lasted about 5 minutes max.



    So, it sounds like EDF just do not have the fittings or the appropriately trained engineers to fit whatever fitting is needed in order to get me a smart meter.


    So, I guess I won't be getting my gas added to my smart meter through EDF.
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 13th Jun 19, 6:09 PM
    • 367 Posts
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    MeterMan
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 19, 6:09 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jun 19, 6:09 PM
    About the butterfly style ECV, its correct that we can't touch them, but the ones in reference are old iron ECVs which yours is not. I think EDF are just being finicky about it.

    Change to the biggest supplier who have the fittings... if you're desperate for a smart meter.

    Failing that, write to the ombudsman to highlight the issue and to find a solution.
    • RozJC
    • By RozJC 13th Jun 19, 6:41 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RozJC
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 19, 6:41 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 19, 6:41 PM
    About the butterfly style ECV, its correct that we can't touch them, but the ones in reference are old iron ECVs which yours is not. I think EDF are just being finicky about it.

    Change to the biggest supplier who have the fittings... if you're desperate for a smart meter.

    Failing that, write to the ombudsman to highlight the issue and to find a solution.
    Originally posted by MeterMan

    I'm not massively desperate for it, so I probably won't switch for that reason alone.


    I spoke to EDF again after Cadent came and went and they said they're going to talk to the engineer team again to work out what next steps are, so I'll see what comes of that.
    • RozJC
    • By RozJC 18th Jun 19, 8:34 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RozJC
    Hi again,


    Last update from me as EDF have finally told me that it is their company policy to touch these butterfly ECVs and until this gets changed, then they are not going to be able to fit a smart meter for my gas.


    So, I guess that's that.


    Thanks very much for all your help with this, but it looks like there's nothing more to be done here.
    • RandomRaven
    • By RandomRaven 21st Jun 19, 9:52 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RandomRaven
    Apologies for bumping a slightly old thread but OP you need to contact GTC (sorry can't post a link as I am not allowed, google them) as they are the gas transporter for your property and not Cadent. If you call them they can arrange to have it replaced and then your supplier can then exchange the meter
    • RozJC
    • By RozJC 23rd Jun 19, 10:32 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RozJC
    Apologies for bumping a slightly old thread but OP you need to contact GTC (sorry can't post a link as I am not allowed, google them) as they are the gas transporter for your property and not Cadent. If you call them they can arrange to have it replaced and then your supplier can then exchange the meter
    Originally posted by RandomRaven

    Oh right. Well, I will give them a call on Monday and see what they say.


    Thanks.
    • RozJC
    • By RozJC 24th Jun 19, 9:40 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RozJC
    Gave GTC a call this morning. They seemed pretty happy to help.


    Just waiting to hear back from them to arrange an appointment to have a look.
    • RozJC
    • By RozJC 1st Jul 19, 2:41 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RozJC
    Hello again.


    Another update for you all.


    GTC's engineer came over and replaced my ECV with a new one today.


    So, I called up EDF Energy to arrange the new smart meter appointment....and it turns out that there's another issue stopping them from fitting the smart meter.


    Apparently, I am in a medium pressure area and they can only fit smart meters on supplies that are standard pressure.


    So, yeah, I'm still out of luck with regards to my gas meter smart setup.


    They're probably not going to change their mind any time soon, so I guess that's that.


    Thanks to all that helped me with this.
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 1st Jul 19, 6:14 PM
    • 367 Posts
    • 213 Thanks
    MeterMan
    You certainly do not have a medium pressure system, I can say this with 100% certainty (from your picture)

    The ECV is a medium pressure ECV, but for whatever reason, GTC decided to keep it low pressure instead.
    • RozJC
    • By RozJC 1st Jul 19, 7:16 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RozJC
    You certainly do not have a medium pressure system, I can say this with 100% certainty (from your picture)

    The ECV is a medium pressure ECV, but for whatever reason, GTC decided to keep it low pressure instead.
    Originally posted by MeterMan

    Oh right.


    Maybe I'll give them another call and try again.
    • RozJC
    • By RozJC 2nd Jul 19, 4:09 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RozJC
    Spoke to EDF Energy again.


    They said it's not the system, but the actual supply of gas to the meter is medium pressure, so it's nothing to do with the gas meter itself.


    I'd sure like to know how they measure that and what determines what medium and normal pressure is.
    • thorganby
    • By thorganby 2nd Jul 19, 5:24 PM
    • 315 Posts
    • 257 Thanks
    thorganby
    Spoke to EDF Energy again.


    They said it's not the system, but the actual supply of gas to the meter is medium pressure, so it's nothing to do with the gas meter itself.


    I'd sure like to know how they measure that and what determines what medium and normal pressure is.
    Originally posted by RozJC
    You need to speak to someone at EDF Energy with more than one brain cell.

    The "problem" is explained here with pictures!

    https://www.gtc-uk.co.uk/docs/default-source/general---energy-suppliers/non-standard-ecv-threads-gm-tgi-ig-0363.pdf

    Obviously far too difficult for them to understand.
    • RozJC
    • By RozJC 5th Jul 19, 9:41 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RozJC
    You need to speak to someone at EDF Energy with more than one brain cell.

    The "problem" is explained here with pictures!

    https://www.gtc-uk.co.uk/docs/default-source/general---energy-suppliers/non-standard-ecv-threads-gm-tgi-ig-0363.pdf

    Obviously far too difficult for them to understand.
    Originally posted by thorganby

    Maybe it is...


    I can't be bothered with all the back and forth with their clueless phone operators, so I'll leave it for a bit and maybe call up again later down the line.
    • Lisa6950
    • By Lisa6950 28th Aug 19, 3:05 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Lisa6950
    Same Issue!
    I have exactly the same issue. Backwards and forwards with British Gas for 4 months now, 7 appointments resulting in no smart meter. 1st appointment, engineer turned up and said he couldn't work on my meter as he isn't medium pressure qualified, Another appointment was then made with a medium pressure engineer, who advised that SGN needed to come and change 'something' on my meter as 'its old' before they can install a smart meter, SGN came out on the request of British Gas and advised there's nothing wrong with my meter. British Gas then made another appointment for a smart meter to be fitted.This was cancelled on the day of the appointment by the engineer assigned to the job as when looking at the job sheet he discovered my meter is medium pressure and he isn't qualified in medium pressure. Another appointment was then made, which again was cancelled on the day of the appointment by the engineer, who this time was medium pressure qualified, but who said if the valve hadn't been changed he couldn't do the job. British Gas are now telling me that SGN need to carry out the work before they can touch the meter, and SGN are telling me it is down to my supplier, British Gas, and not them to change the butterfly ECV.
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