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  • FIRST POST
    • Resourceful
    • By Resourceful 31st May 19, 10:59 PM
    • 47Posts
    • 15Thanks
    Resourceful
    Urgent advice needed - County Court Claim.
    • #1
    • 31st May 19, 10:59 PM
    Urgent advice needed - County Court Claim. 31st May 19 at 10:59 PM
    Hi all.
    For one reason and another I find myself with 2 days to acknowledge service of a cc claim from PE. Without going into detail yet about the specifics of the claim can anyone advise me how to proceed?
    I have been on the MCOL website and they are asking for a Gateway ID and password but the claim form says I need to use the claim no. and password. Do I need to register using the claim no. in order to obtain the ID?
    Assuming I can access the area of the website where I can acknowledge service of the claim can I just write something really short such as 'service acknowledged'? I just need to buy myself a bit more time in order to prepare a defense, etc The last day to acknowledge service is Sunday 2nd and as I have to work all day tomorrow I am cutting this fine.
    I fully intend to make a complaint to the landowner (a hotel) in addition to preparing a court defense but after several months of this I am losing the will to live! Is settling out of court for an agreed sum still an option to me at this late stage? I know it's not an ideal outcome but life is too short and I'd honestly be happy to just get them off my back as soon as possible.

    Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jun 19, 12:21 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,715 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The car park was completely unlit on site.
    That's a potentially winning legal argument. At POPLA you could have won with that as well, as we presume P/Eye only showed POPLA daylight images but you didn't challenge that 'evidence'?

    Shortly after I visited the hotel and spoke to the assistant front of house manager but got fobbed off with a 'there's nothing we can do' claim.
    The irony is that the hotel (chain) actually sponsor the event that I was playing at, an event that draws thousands to this seaside town and probably their hotel every year!
    Seriously you need to update that complaint, especially if you have no claim yet. The Manager should cancel it and you should point out the sponsorship and the fact they entrapped 3 band members.

    If not then ask for the contact details of the Hotel national chain CEO, and say the same thing and how stung the band members feel by the unlit signs and yet the Hotel were sponsoring the event!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Resourceful
    • By Resourceful 12th Jun 19, 3:42 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Resourceful
    First of all, thank you Coupon-mad for your reply.
    I was beginning to think that having been away from this for a few days, my thread had slipped so far down the forum that there was no chance of anybody responding! I can see you have your work cut out dealing with the number of queries you receive each day so really appreciate your time helping me.

    So to answer your points:

    1) I did challenge PE's 'evidence' at POPLA stage regarding lighting. They did only show a daylight photo and indicated one light which was not on site. Here's my challenge paragraph:
    Lighting

    Parking Eye: "There is sufficient ambient lighting on site and we have highlighted some of the lighting poles within the
    images. (Enclosed)"


    ME: "Operator evidence shows only one lighting pole marked. Again, the provided photo clearly shows this light is NOT on site as stated, it is some distance away and only provides light for the footpath/road directly beneath it NOT the car park. If the ambient light were sufficient to light up the whole area then my car would be clearly visible in the captured ANPR photographs, which it is not."

    Upon further investigation, the light indicated in their POPLA 'evidence' is at least 3 carriageway widths plus two pavements away from the car park entrance sign and is attached to the wall of a concert hall building pointing straight down at the pavement below. When I revisited the site one evening (after my POPLA submission) this light was not lit as I believe it is operated from within the concert hall building which was closed at the time. I believe it was also closed at the time of the alleged offence.

    2) Hotel Complaint...I should have followed this up ages ago but only discovered last week that they are event sponsors which has renewed my enthusiasm to try complaining again. I'll send something today if possible.
    In the mean time, as far as my defence is concerned, other than challenging their 'sufficient ambient lighting' claim do you see anything else I can legitimately tackle them with?
    • Resourceful
    • By Resourceful 12th Jun 19, 3:45 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Resourceful
    p.s. Is it acceptable to bump threads on this forum so they get seen?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 12th Jun 19, 3:47 PM
    • 40,488 Posts
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    Quentin
    Big NO.


    From MSE Rules:


    Can we "bump" threads


    For those that don't know, "bumping" is where a forum user who hasn't received a reply to a question comes back and replies on the thread to "bump" the thread back to the first page of the board it's on, making it more prominent.


    No...….
    Last edited by Quentin; 12-06-2019 at 3:55 PM.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 12th Jun 19, 3:47 PM
    • 6,560 Posts
    • 6,577 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    p.s. Is it acceptable to bump threads on this forum so they get seen?
    Originally posted by Resourceful
    Yes ............... and you have! Sometimes it is used by the regulars to keep posts on top if they didn't have time to answer it themselves.
    • Resourceful
    • By Resourceful 12th Jun 19, 4:07 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Resourceful
    Ha! Two conflicting answers and a double bump to boot!
    Seriously though, what constitutes a bump and what do you do if you only have a few days before your defence submission deadline and urgently need advice relating to your specific circumstances?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jun 19, 12:34 AM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,715 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes, you should always reply again - just like you have - and hope someone sees it, as I just have. That's because when I've missed a day, I go back to where I last read, often 8 or more pages back, and start there and read all posts, rescuing things if they've been missed due to how busy this forum is.

    Just putting the stark word BUMP can be annoying but asking a differently-worded question is perfectly OK!
    Hotel Complaint...I should have followed this up ages ago but only discovered last week that they are event sponsors which has renewed my enthusiasm to try complaining again. I'll send something today if possible.
    Yes keep trying, as if they will agree to at least email asking for the PCN to be cancelled, it causes P/Eye issues and they often throw out WP offers, then are more likely to fold before the hearing, same as I advised here and the person has a lower offer already:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=75914253#post75914253

    In the mean time, as far as my defence is concerned, other than challenging their 'sufficient ambient lighting' claim do you see anything else I can legitimately tackle them with?
    I haven't seen a draft defence from you yet? Most people base it on bargepole's concise defence example about unclear signs and in your case you'd just be adding that it was pitch black and that the Hotel have been contacted to cancel the PCN as you were headlining an event for which the Hotel sponsored. Therefore the Claimant has no legitimate interest or commercial justification for pursuing this charge, and the Beavis case is fully distinguished in this regard and due to unlit/unseen terms in the darkness.

    Any chance you are headlining an event in Brighton at any time?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Resourceful
    • By Resourceful 13th Jun 19, 2:45 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Resourceful
    Thank you again Coupon-mad.

    I'm way behind with this but the deadline is 4pm on Monday so I will have to throw something together in the way of a defence. The link you posted was helpful so I should be able to adapt that. As I wasn't a hotel client I don't have that argument but I will press the hotel to get it cancelled and as you say if I can just get them to send an email that will strengthen my defence. I should point out that the hotel is one of several sponsors but don't think that makes any difference. Wouldn't it be ironic though if they turned out to be sponsors for the live entertainment...!

    No shows planned for Brighton I'm afraid although I have played there a lot in the past.
    • Resourceful
    • By Resourceful 13th Jun 19, 7:32 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Resourceful
    As I scour the forum for appropriate defence examples to plagarise and adapt I was wondering how I should refer to myself, given that I have already identified myself as the driver. 'I' or 'the defendant'?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jun 19, 7:36 PM
    • 17,823 Posts
    • 21,677 Thanks
    KeithP
    Defences are always written in the third person, so it is 'the Defendant'.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jun 19, 7:36 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,715 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You are (in your defence) the Defendant, whether or not you were the driver.

    You can use bargepole's concise defence and just add a paragraph or two. Easy!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Resourceful
    • By Resourceful 13th Jun 19, 8:13 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Resourceful
    Thank you Keith and C-m.
    The defendant shall now continue drafting said defence!
    With another busy weekend ahead I can see this going to the wire on Monday so a concise defence it shall be. I think I'll need to work out how to do a digital signature too and will prep' the email so it's just 'attach and go'!
    • Resourceful
    • By Resourceful 15th Jun 19, 11:54 AM
    • 47 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Resourceful
    A couple of quick questions please, if anybody can help.

    I'm really pushed for time on getting my defence in. What happens if I don't submit it on time? Would that be a default win for the claimant? If so would that be the full value of the claim including their 'extras' as detailed on the claim form?
    Just looking at worst case scenarios.
    Last edited by Resourceful; 15-06-2019 at 12:05 PM.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 15th Jun 19, 12:10 PM
    • 40,488 Posts
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    Quentin
    Yes to all your questions

    (Assuming that the claimant is on the ball and requests judgement)
    • Resourceful
    • By Resourceful 15th Jun 19, 12:15 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Resourceful
    Thanks Quentin.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jun 19, 12:22 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,715 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes but it really should only take you half an hour, doing what I said above. When I say it is easy, I mean it. No detail needed as such, as you can expand on defence points later.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Resourceful
    • By Resourceful 15th Jun 19, 12:38 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Resourceful
    Ah, so all I'm effectively doing here is sending in a list of points that I intend to challenge in greater detail in court?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jun 19, 12:45 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,715 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yep, go and look at bargepole's concise defence, use that and add a paragraph about the car park or specific thing(s) you want to include (e.g. if a person wants to state as fact they were not driving, or that the car had a permit, or paid & displayed, or didn't stay beyond a reasonable period of grace, or whatever the issue is) and Bob's your Uncle.

    You MUST return here at Witness Statement and evidence stage, where you add the details.

    Read bargepole's thread COURT PROCEDURES as it's not jut a case of defence then a big gap and doing nothing till rocking up at a hearing. People who do that, usually lose.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 15th Jun 19, 12:47 PM
    • 40,488 Posts
    • 24,530 Thanks
    Quentin
    See the links to bear template defences you have been pointed to in #2 of the newbies FAQ thread
    • Resourceful
    • By Resourceful 15th Jun 19, 1:10 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Resourceful
    I've already copied a couple of defence examples so will collate mine tomorrow morning and post here for your critique with a view to finalising and submitting it by Monday morning.
    Out of interest, what is the average period of time between submitting a defence and receiving an order to exchange witness statements and what is the deadline for exchanging WS after receiving the order from the court?
    Just trying to work out how long I might have to prepare my WS.

    Thanks again guys, I really appreciate your help.

    EDIT: Reading Bargepole's CC Process advice it seems to usually be required 14 days before the hearing so I guess the time between submitting a defence and receiving a hearing date is the determining factor and presumably that comes down to how busy your local county court is at any given time.
    Last edited by Resourceful; 15-06-2019 at 1:24 PM.
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