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  • FIRST POST
    • abiabc
    • By abiabc 24th May 19, 11:02 AM
    • 17Posts
    • 8Thanks
    abiabc
    E.on Fix Online v20
    • #1
    • 24th May 19, 11:02 AM
    E.on Fix Online v20 24th May 19 at 11:02 AM
    Hi Malc/Helena

    I am trying to sign up to Fix Online v20 from Energy Plan.

    The language for smart meters has been softened in the information about the tariff - thanks to you guys for feeding back and this being done.

    The language in the information says:-

    Free Smart Meter Installation and

    We'll contact you to offer a free smart meter installation if eligible.

    Nothing about having to agree to them or only staying on the tariff if they can't be fitted.

    However, in the terms and conditions when you get to the end it is no different to the compulsory smart meter tariffs. It says:-

    I understand that by choosing this tariff, Iím happy to be contacted about smart meters and have them fitted in my home. Iím also aware that Iíll stay on this tariff if E.ON canít install them.

    This is the same phrase as on all the compulsory tariffs. I don't mind being contacted - but I don't want to be forced to have them even if eligible.

    This is from the terms and conditions on Fix Online v20. You don't see this until right at the end of signing up. I think it is probably a mistake that this has not been softened/changed also or I could be really cynical and view it as a trap. But I really don't want Smart Meters yet and can't sign up with this terminology.

    Please can you chase it up with the powers that be. I really want to stay with E.on but may not be able to cope much longer with the EnergyPlan prices. I was on a really good fix until the beginning of this month.

    Many thanks
    Abi
Page 3
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 14th Jun 19, 2:37 PM
    • 4,890 Posts
    • 8,303 Thanks
    Smodlet
    I could swear but this site would only !!!! every word. As of yesterday, I can leave my current energy provider penalty free and, for the first time in at least a couple of years, the energy market seems to be going the right way at the right time and I am hopeful of finding another tariff with whichever supplier which is at least no more expensive than my current, very competitive, one.

    The stars align further in that, at last, Eon have a competitive tariff at a time I am able to take advantage of it; this has never happened to me before yet the rot already sets in: They force people to have so-called smart meters which are anything but as soon as you change suppliers.

    Like other posters, I neither want nor need a "smart" meter as I am more than capable of sending meter readings every month myself without let or hindrance from some juice-guzzling, pointlessly complicated robot trying to do the job of meter.

    Your loss, Eon. There are plenty of other tariffs out there and I will find a supplier who does not BS me like this. You have no legal right to compel customers to have a "smart" meter: You know it, I know it and Ofgem know it. If you want more complaints made to them on top of your already reprehensible record of misleading and bullying customers on this subject, just keep on digging.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • oliverbrown
    • By oliverbrown 14th Jun 19, 2:44 PM
    • 96 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    oliverbrown
    They force people to have so-called smart meters which are anything but as soon as you change suppliers.
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    The cheapest current E.on tariff, Fix Online, does not require you to agree to a smart meter being installed.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 14th Jun 19, 3:00 PM
    • 4,890 Posts
    • 8,303 Thanks
    Smodlet
    The cheapest current E.on tariff, Fix Online, does not require you to agree to a smart meter being installed.
    Originally posted by oliverbrown
    OK, perhaps I misunderstood, oliverbrown, but it sounds as if they still hound you and how is one to interpret (paraphrasing) "perhaps another tariff would suit you better if you refuse to have one" if not as a requirement?

    I thank you for your response but am still very unsure about Eon... Better the devil I know, perhaps, provided they can come up with a competitive tariff in the next 47 days. So far, not a sausage. Still, there is EDF, n'est-ce pas? (Imagine that icon with a beret, if you will)
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • oliverbrown
    • By oliverbrown 14th Jun 19, 3:07 PM
    • 96 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    oliverbrown
    I understand your hesitance given some of the woolly language used by the E.on rep on here, but I don't see anything in the current T&C which would allow them to kick you off the tariff if one was offered, and refused, a smart meter.

    So I would say if and when such an "offer" for a smart meter comes, politely refuse it and state there's nothing within the T&C which enforces it. If it came to a dispute, I don't think the Energy Ombudsman would rule in E.on's favour.

    Remember, the worst that could happen is that they kick you onto the standard variable tariff, at which point you can leave penalty free, but I don't think it would come to that.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 14th Jun 19, 4:59 PM
    • 4,890 Posts
    • 8,303 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Can you leave penalty free, though? It is so long since I was on a standard tariff, I no longer know. As you say, "wooly" language gives me pause. Really not worth the hassle but I am grateful for the reminder to beware of these hard sell tactics, should I have to change provider.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • oliverbrown
    • By oliverbrown 14th Jun 19, 5:31 PM
    • 96 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    oliverbrown
    Can you leave penalty free, though?
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    Yes, there is no penalty to leave E.on from the standard variable tariff.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 15th Jun 19, 1:45 PM
    • 4,890 Posts
    • 8,303 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Yes, there is no penalty to leave E.on from the standard variable tariff.
    Originally posted by oliverbrown
    Thank you for your time and patience with me, oliverbrown. I will admit it is several years since I switched supplier and the prospect of doing so does not fill me with joy. The current one has always come up with the best tariff for me in the nick of time but time is running out for them now. I will watch the CEC.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • docpaulo
    • By docpaulo 17th Jun 19, 4:27 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    docpaulo
    More tariff T&C confusion
    I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I'm in a similar position to others here regarding smart meter requirements. I have an added problem - E.ON don't seem to be able to supply me with the full T&Cs for the tariff I'm switching to so that I can check them!

    Briefly, last week I initiated a switch through the MSE Cheap Energy Club to E.ON's 'Fix Online Exclusive v4 with Clean £2'. According to the tariff details on CEC this didn't include a smart meter requirement (it WAS stated for other tariffs on there), and at no point in the online switching process was I told that a
    smart meter was a requirement or that I would be contacted about one or asked to confirm that I wanted one.

    Yesterday I received a 'Welcome' email from E.ON which had the same wording under 'Getting Smart' as Gold123 reported in post #40 above. My experience differs from Gold123 in that I can't obtain a copy of the tariff T&Cs to check it! The charges are listed in the email but the 'T&Cs for this tariff' link in the email is broken and takes me to an error page ending '../for-your-home/errors/quote-and-signup-error'.

    So earlier today I spent a frustrating 80 minutes on the phone and online to E.ON trying to find somebody who could either send me a copy of the T&C document or discuss the terms relating to smart meter requirements for this tariff. Staff were either 'not tariff trained' or couldn't/wouldn't put me in touch with the 'Tariff Team' directly. Finally I waited on the phone while a CS rep trawled through the Tariffs section of the E.ON website looking for the tariff and not finding it (I'd already tried that!). At that point I ended the call and started searching this forum. Wish I'd done that earlier but didn't realise there was this ambiguity.


    So, can anyone please send me a working link to T&Cs specific for the above tariff or PM me a copy of it while I am still in my cooling off period (until June 28th).


    I should state that I have no intention of explaining or discussing my reasons for not wanting a smart meter: any replies to that effect will be ignored.
    • Gold123
    • By Gold123 17th Jun 19, 5:04 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Gold123
    Had same issue as you, can't load the T&C's but based on what I've read in this thread there is no longer a requirement to have a smart meter, only that they can contact you to offer one, at least that's what I hope.
    • oliverbrown
    • By oliverbrown 17th Jun 19, 5:11 PM
    • 96 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    oliverbrown
    So, can anyone please send me a working link to T&Cs specific for the above tariff or PM me a copy of it while I am still in my cooling off period (until June 28th).
    Originally posted by docpaulo
    Here are the T&C for your package. Fix Online Exclusive terms are in section 11: https://www.eonenergy.com/-/media/downloads/residential/tariffs/2019/q2/fix-online-exclusive.pdf

    Edit: I missed that you went for the Clean £2 option. I'd imagine that aside from the £2, the T&C are identical to the above, but maybe an E.on rep could confirm.
    Last edited by oliverbrown; 17-06-2019 at 5:19 PM.
    • oliverbrown
    • By oliverbrown 17th Jun 19, 5:26 PM
    • 96 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    oliverbrown
    In the end I found the T&C for Fix Online Exclusive with Clean £2: https://www.eonenergy.com/-/media/downloads/residential/tariffs/2019/q2/fix-online-exclusive-clean-2.pdf
    • docpaulo
    • By docpaulo 17th Jun 19, 8:48 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    docpaulo
    Thank you oliverbrown, that's very helpful. Now I can make an informed decision about this tariff.


    I see that both contracts state under 11.1 that:


    With this tariff you agree to be contacted during the tariff term for the installation of a smart meter. You are still eligible for this tariff if you currently have a smart meter installed or your property is currently ineligible for a smart meter.



    This is the statement that was confirmed by Malc, the E.ON rep, in post #37 of this thread. He also stated in post #2 that :
    'Smart meters aren't compulsory and we can't insist on installing them where a customer refuses.' That's fine, because that's the current legal position.


    However, in the same post he goes on to say:
    'Customers asking to go on one of the Fixed Tariffs currently available on our website agree to consider smart meters'.................'Where customers are okay with having the meters or agree to consider them within the near future, we'll switch them to the tariff and note the account to discuss again at a later date. Where they tell us categorically, no, they will not have smart meters, we need to look at quoting against another tariff. (My italics).


    My interpretation of all this (for what it's worth) is that customers can't be forced to accept a smart meter, but if they refuse to have one they will be persuaded/forced(?) to move to another E.ON tariff than the one they thought they had signed up for - possibly after the cooling off period for the original tariff has ended.


    Perhaps the E.ON rep can confirm that? I'm happy to be corrected.
    Personally, while all this may be perfectly legal under the laws governing contracts etc. (I'm no expert), I would much rather that E.ON clearly stated up-front that acceptance of a smart meter was compulsory for certain tariffs then I wouldn't have to waste hours digging around to find out that maybe the deal wasn't the one for me after all.
    • oliverbrown
    • By oliverbrown 17th Jun 19, 8:59 PM
    • 96 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    oliverbrown
    I would much rather that E.ON clearly stated up-front that acceptance of a smart meter was compulsory for certain tariffs then I wouldn't have to waste hours digging around to find out that maybe the deal wasn't the one for me after all.
    Originally posted by docpaulo
    Other E.on tariffs are more definitive about the customer needing to agree to a smart meter when joining those tariffs. My assumption is that if Fix Online was just as "strict" about the customer needing to agree to one as part of the sign up, all E.on tariffs would have the same wording in the T&C.

    As I said before, in my opinion the Fix Online T&C do not commit the customer to agreeing to a smart meter and therefore I do not believe E.on has grounds to kick people off the tariff for smart meter refusal.
    • oliverbrown
    • By oliverbrown 17th Jun 19, 9:30 PM
    • 96 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    oliverbrown
    That being said, I don't think the T&C's vary between products, just the "Review" section on the product pages. It's curious that the wording in the Review section differs if the (vague) T&C are the same.

    T&C: "With this tariff you agree to be contacted during the tariff term for the installation of a smart meter. You're still eligible for this tariff if you currently have a smart meter installed or your property is currently ineligible for a smart meter."

    Review panel for Fix Online v20:



    Review panel for Fix and Boiler Cover v15

    • docpaulo
    • By docpaulo 18th Jun 19, 7:23 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    docpaulo
    My understanding is that the T&Cs are your legal contract with the company, anything else is just marketing.
    • oliverbrown
    • By oliverbrown 18th Jun 19, 10:35 AM
    • 96 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    oliverbrown
    My understanding is that the T&Cs are your legal contract with the company, anything else is just marketing.
    Originally posted by docpaulo
    I agree. In which case none of their tariffs mandate the installation of a smart meter, at least not how I interpret the T&C.
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Fix Online Exclusive
    Signed up the new Fix Online Exclusive v4 on Monday based on the new softer terms of agreeing to be contacted and offered a smart meter.

    Just received the Welcome to Eon email and again confusion:

    Third paragraph suggests:

    "Getting smart
    We'll be in touch to check your home is suitable to fit smart meters. If it is, we'll book you an appointment and once fitted, we'll leave you with an in-home display so you can take control of the energy you're using."

    Which I certainly did not agree to.

    But later this is contradicted in the key facts of the tariff by this:

    "- We'll contact you to offer a free smart meter installation if you're eligible."

    which is what I did agree to, to only be offered it.

    Can the Eon representative please confirm which is correct.

    Thanks in advance.
    Originally posted by Gold123

    Morning Gold123 and thanks for joining us. I can confirm the right statement is the one I posted above (#37 - 4 June) about being contacted.

    Although Fix Online Exclusive version 4 is a different tariff from the thread title, the wording in the T&Cs is the same. The relevant section says as follows.

    With this tariff you agree to be contacted during the tariff term for the installation of a smart meter. You are still eligible for this tariff if you currently have a smart meter installed or your property is currently ineligible for a smart meter.

    The full T&Cs are at the link oliverbrown has kindly posted in #50 below (17 June) - thanks oliverbrown.

    Hope this explains Gold123.

    Malc
    Last edited by E.ON Company Representative: Malc; 19-06-2019 at 9:14 AM. Reason: Added text
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Tariffs
    Yes, there is no penalty to leave E.on from the standard variable tariff.
    Originally posted by oliverbrown
    Confirm that oliverbrown. There are no exit fees on our standard Energy Plan tariff.

    We also don't apply fees when switching from one of our tariffs to another. Where exit fees are part of the T&Cs, they only apply when changing supplier outside of the renewal period.

    Here are the T&C for your package. Fix Online Exclusive terms are in section 11: https://www.eonenergy.com/-/media/downloads/residential/tariffs/2019/q2/fix-online-exclusive.pdf

    Edit: I missed that you went for the Clean £2 option. I'd imagine that aside from the £2, the T&C are identical to the above, but maybe an E.on rep could confirm.
    Originally posted by oliverbrown
    Originally posted by oliverbrown
    Many thanks for posting links to the relevant T&Cs for our Fix Online Exclusive tariffs. Happy to confirm the difference between the two versions concerns the £2 monthly charge for renewable energy. Other aspects are the same.

    Thanks again oliverbrown.

    Malc
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Fix Online Exclusive
    I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I'm in a similar position to others here regarding smart meter requirements. I have an added problem - E.ON don't seem to be able to supply me with the full T&Cs for the tariff I'm switching to so that I can check them!

    Briefly, last week I initiated a switch through the MSE Cheap Energy Club to E.ON's 'Fix Online Exclusive v4 with Clean £2'. According to the tariff details on CEC this didn't include a smart meter requirement (it WAS stated for other tariffs on there), and at no point in the online switching process was I told that a
    smart meter was a requirement or that I would be contacted about one or asked to confirm that I wanted one.

    Yesterday I received a 'Welcome' email from E.ON which had the same wording under 'Getting Smart' as Gold123 reported in post #40 above. My experience differs from Gold123 in that I can't obtain a copy of the tariff T&Cs to check it! The charges are listed in the email but the 'T&Cs for this tariff' link in the email is broken and takes me to an error page ending '../for-your-home/errors/quote-and-signup-error'.

    So earlier today I spent a frustrating 80 minutes on the phone and online to E.ON trying to find somebody who could either send me a copy of the T&C document or discuss the terms relating to smart meter requirements for this tariff. Staff were either 'not tariff trained' or couldn't/wouldn't put me in touch with the 'Tariff Team' directly. Finally I waited on the phone while a CS rep trawled through the Tariffs section of the E.ON website looking for the tariff and not finding it (I'd already tried that!). At that point I ended the call and started searching this forum. Wish I'd done that earlier but didn't realise there was this ambiguity.


    So, can anyone please send me a working link to T&Cs specific for the above tariff or PM me a copy of it while I am still in my cooling off period (until June 28th).


    I should state that I have no intention of explaining or discussing my reasons for not wanting a smart meter: any replies to that effect will be ignored.
    Originally posted by docpaulo
    Thank you oliverbrown, that's very helpful. Now I can make an informed decision about this tariff.


    I see that both contracts state under 11.1 that:


    With this tariff you agree to be contacted during the tariff term for the installation of a smart meter. You are still eligible for this tariff if you currently have a smart meter installed or your property is currently ineligible for a smart meter.



    This is the statement that was confirmed by Malc, the E.ON rep, in post #37 of this thread. He also stated in post #2 that :
    'Smart meters aren't compulsory and we can't insist on installing them where a customer refuses.' That's fine, because that's the current legal position.


    However, in the same post he goes on to say:
    'Customers asking to go on one of the Fixed Tariffs currently available on our website agree to consider smart meters'.................'Where customers are okay with having the meters or agree to consider them within the near future, we'll switch them to the tariff and note the account to discuss again at a later date. Where they tell us categorically, no, they will not have smart meters, we need to look at quoting against another tariff. (My italics).


    My interpretation of all this (for what it's worth) is that customers can't be forced to accept a smart meter, but if they refuse to have one they will be persuaded/forced(?) to move to another E.ON tariff than the one they thought they had signed up for - possibly after the cooling off period for the original tariff has ended.


    Perhaps the E.ON rep can confirm that? I'm happy to be corrected.
    Personally, while all this may be perfectly legal under the laws governing contracts etc. (I'm no expert), I would much rather that E.ON clearly stated up-front that acceptance of a smart meter was compulsory for certain tariffs then I wouldn't have to waste hours digging around to find out that maybe the deal wasn't the one for me after all.
    Originally posted by docpaulo

    Hello docpaulo and thanks for joining us.

    I'm sorry you had such a struggle to find the T&Cs for our Fix Online Exclusive tariff. As oliverbrown posts, they're available on our website at the links in the above posts.

    Also happy to confirm my statement earlier today (#57) concerning only agreeing to be contacted about smart meters. The relevant section for this tariff is as follows.

    With this tariff you agree to be contacted during the tariff term for the installation of a smart meter. You are still eligible for this tariff if you currently have a smart meter installed or your property is currently ineligible for a smart meter.

    Hope this explains docpaulo.

    Malc
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • 1854
    • By 1854 19th Jun 19, 10:41 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 42 Thanks
    1854
    In reply to the E.On Rep can I ask is what you are saying is that a smart meter is not mandatory on a Fix Online Exclusive V4 tariff ?


    If so this is contrary to what I have been informed in 2 telephone conversations with E.On staff which led to my cancelling a Fix Online Exclusive V4 contract , and on subsequently querying an 'Activate your Account' email, received after cancellation, the email reply back from E.On also confirmed that smart meters were mandatory across all fixed tariff options, though not on variable rate tariffs.
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