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  • FIRST POST
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 20th May 19, 3:29 PM
    • 8,571Posts
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    kingfisherblue
    Good news and bad news
    • #1
    • 20th May 19, 3:29 PM
    Good news and bad news 20th May 19 at 3:29 PM
    This should probably be in the mortgage section, but I feel more comfortable here. I hope that nobody minds.

    When I was young and naive, I took out an endowment mortgage with my then fiance. We later married and took out another, much smaller, endowment. We then moved to a bigger house, in a better area, and visited the mortgage company again. We had a child at this point. We asked for a different type of mortgage, because by this time it had become known that endowments were as fantastic as suggested. We didn't know the term, but we were actually asking for a repayment mortgage.

    We were told that we couldn't have a different type of mortgage, and that it had to be an endowment again. Young and naive, with no internet, we didn't even know that we could change mortgage providers. Oh, how I wish I knew then what I know now!

    Fast forward a few years and two more children. One was born with severe disabilities. Our house was adapted for his needs. Then, my husband decided to start a new family elsewhere. I had to rely on benefits whilst bringing up my children alone, although their dad still saw them once a week. He didn't pay anything towards the mortgage, but I managed to get some help from the government (just over 20 a week, paid directly to the mortgage company). He was taken to court by the CSA for non-payment of child support.

    A friend told me about MSE, and I joined. I have enjoyed being a member ever since. I have also learned just how naive I have been! I have not been able to change my mortgage because I am on benefits. My ex continued to ignore the fact that the mortgage needed to be paid, and I continued to pay as best I could, with some help from the taxpayers (for which I am very grateful).

    Now, my mortgage is due up next week. I have a shortfall of just over 4000, which family will cover for me. I will then pay them back as soon as I can. For just over a year, I haven't had government help, as the rules changed. If I had continued to accept the 20 a week support for mortgage interest, there would be a charge on my house, with daily interest added. I decided to tough it out for a year.

    My final endowment is due to mature three weeks after the date that the mortgage is due up. I can arrange to have the previous two endowments paid as soon as possible, but it may not be by next week. I wish that I had known that I could pay those to the mortgage company before the mortgage date was due, but when I asked about it in branch, I was told that it was best to leave them and pay the whole lot at once (I have no proof of this, but how I wish I had!). If I had been bright enough to realise, I could have had lower a lower amount of capital to pay interest on for the last five years. It would have saved so much money.

    I am hoping that my mortgage company is lenient enough to allow the delay between the mortgage term being up next week, and the time for my final policy to mature. I am trying to arrange for the payments to be made directly to the mortgage provider, rather than the money go through my bank account. If the mortgage company are not understanding of my situation, then I have no idea what I will do. My ex will not help - he is verbally abusive and I have no wish to speak with him unless it is absolutely necessary.

    I know that I am lucky that it is only 4000 short on my endowments - some people have a much greater amount to find. I have been slightly late paying a few times in recent months though, simply because I have been waiting for my benefits to come through so that I could go and pay. I supported my son whilst he was out of work for a few months, and to be fair, he is very supportive trying to help me. He pays his board as soon as he receives his wages, and now that he is earning, he pays for occasional treats as well as paying for fuel sometimes (Motability car, for my other son).

    I can see light at the end of the tunnel, although I know that I will still be paying family back any money that they lend to me for the shortfall. It just seems as though I am going to fall at the final hurdle though. I've spoken on the phone today to a rather patronising lady (but to be fair, she did stop patronising me when I told her that I didn't appreciate it). I asked about freezing the interest (currently 4.41 a day ), and she said that I might be able to take a payment holiday. I think that is doubtful because I have had a few late payments. Even if they don't freeze the interest, I hope that they allow me the time to pay once the endowment matures. I don't know what will happen if they don't allow me that time.

    This just shows how important financial education is. If I had understood the processes better, or been able to point out that I could change from an endowment to a repayment mortgage, I might not have been in such a pickle. I am not proud to be on benefits, but I have to look after my son, and increasingly my mum. If I had moved into social housing, I would have had all of my rent paid (which is a lot more than anything that I have received towards my mortgage), and the house would have had to be adapted for my son's needs.

    I know that there is nothing anyone can do to help, but I just needed to let it all out. If you have read this far, thank you for listening.

    KFB x
Page 1
    • MovingForwards
    • By MovingForwards 20th May 19, 4:29 PM
    • 2,311 Posts
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    MovingForwards
    • #2
    • 20th May 19, 4:29 PM
    • #2
    • 20th May 19, 4:29 PM
    Look at it logically now you have spilled your guts and got it off your chest.

    You have come a long way, you have the bulk of the money coming soon and help from family for the (majority) rest of it, if they keep adding interest it won't be forever as it's hefty at the moment due to the overall amount outstanding, once that is paid off your interest will drop down, you will know how much it is and hopefully family can step in to help again to get rid of the straggling bit.

    They won't evict you, but hopefully will have someone you can speak with to let them know what is happening, when you think the endowments will mature and how much you are paying them.

    They should extend the mortgage for a bit to allow you time to clear what is left.

    Now, take a deep breath, you have this nailed and a home!

    (Is your ex named on the mortgage or was he taken off it?)
    • MovingForwards
    • By MovingForwards 20th May 19, 4:31 PM
    • 2,311 Posts
    • 2,736 Thanks
    MovingForwards
    • #3
    • 20th May 19, 4:31 PM
    • #3
    • 20th May 19, 4:31 PM
    Oh, if it would make you feel better lodge a complaint about how the staff have spoken with you!

    Again, that will make you feel better just keep it factual.
    • Tigsteroonie
    • By Tigsteroonie 20th May 19, 4:53 PM
    • 23,368 Posts
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    Tigsteroonie
    • #4
    • 20th May 19, 4:53 PM
    • #4
    • 20th May 19, 4:53 PM
    For what it's worth, I think you've done bloody well
    Mrs Marleyboy

    MSE: many of the benefits of a helpful family, without disadvantages like having to compete for the tv remote

    Proud Parents to an Au-some son
    • Sleazy
    • By Sleazy 20th May 19, 5:39 PM
    • 18,431 Posts
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    Sleazy
    • #5
    • 20th May 19, 5:39 PM
    • #5
    • 20th May 19, 5:39 PM
    KFB, the first thing that came to my mind was that if they told you years ago that you couldn't change the mortgage type (when clearly you could), were the mortgage providers 'guilty' of miss-selling?

    Nobody is going to make you leave your home. At the very least they should cut you some slack. You might be surprised that they may let you have a payment holiday if they know your other endowment will mature soon. They'd probably prefer that rather than give themselves hassle.

    Citizens Advice have some trained advisers - they might have other suggestions.
    Weekly Distance Walked 30km / Total For Year 1162 km
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 20th May 19, 9:32 PM
    • 8,571 Posts
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    kingfisherblue
    • #6
    • 20th May 19, 9:32 PM
    • #6
    • 20th May 19, 9:32 PM
    Thank you for listening and for replying. Just after posting, I went out to Rainbows and Brownies, where I am a volunteer. It's my respite from being a carer . So after an evening of helping children with understanding emotions and learning some Makaton signing (Rainbows), making bug houses (Brownies), and playing games outside (both units), I have had my tea and have time to respond.

    Firstly, my ex is still named on the mortgage, although he is not named as a policy holder on the last endowment - I'm not sure how this happened! His life is still insured though. When we were divorced, the judge awarded a Mesher Order, so that I can stay in the house with my disabled son. The house only has to be sold (and split 50/50) if a trigger event occurs. Eventually one of the triggers will happen, but this probably won't be for many years. Obviously to stay in our home, I needed to pay the mortgage. The judge also stated that I would have to cover any shortfall.

    My daughter has immediately offered over 2000. My son ( the one who works, not my disabled son) has offered the 400 that he has in his bank at the moment, plus all of his wages next month - obviously I can't take every penny off him! Between my mum and my sister, I am hoping that the remaining amount can be covered.

    I spoke to the endowment policy provider before I spoke to the mortgage company. He advised that I could make a complaint about being mis-sold the last endowment (which funnily enough has been the best performing, from what I can tell - full details are being posted to me). He has taken details to put forward a complaint for me. I can remember the first name of the building society employee - it's a favourite name of mine. I also remember a physical description. The company that I have the endowment policy with has this information. The chap couldn't say how long it will take, but he did say that it sounds as though we were mis-sold, which is why he suggested raising the complaint.

    I can't remember whether this was under the current Building Society or if it was before the takeover of the original BS that we used, but Google shows that the takeover took place a year later. So it was when our original BS still existed.

    I am concerned that my late payments will be held against me. I don't think that they will allow a payment holiday. I did ask about the possibility of freezing the interest, but the lady at the mortgage company didn't really listen about that. I was hoping that it would mean that I am not accruing more debt as I am trying to sort things out. My mortgage is my only debt - since my ex left, I haven't been in the red, although on our joint account during our marriage, it was a fairly regular occurence (which he always blamed on me). I might not have much in my bank account, but it is always in credit and I don't owe anybody else any money.

    I feel much better having got everything off my chest, which is why I chose to post in The Arms rather than on the mortgages board. Here, people are friendly and understanding. Everyone seems so knowledgeable on other boards, and I feel such an idiot. I truly wish that I had not been so naive and trusting when I was younger.

    Tomorrow, I am going to try to speak to someone else at the mortgage provider. I need to show them that I am trying to sort this out as quickly as possible, but that I have certain restraints, such as being unable to control the date that the policy matures. The mortgage provider arranged the endowment policies in the first place, so I cannot understand how they managed to arrange for the mortgage end date to be before the policy matures - surely the policy needed to mature before the final amount was due on the mortgage? (I hope that makes sense!)

    Thanks again for letting me get this off my chest. I have a lot of other things going on in my life at the moment, and am only just holding myself together at times. I truly appreciate the fact that you have taken the trouble to answer, support, and advise me.

    KFB x
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 20th May 19, 9:33 PM
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    silvercar
    • #7
    • 20th May 19, 9:33 PM
    • #7
    • 20th May 19, 9:33 PM
    Don’t worry in the slightest that your final endowment matures a few weeks after the official mortgage end. Often people have taken new endowments over a whole number of years and this doesn’t tie in with the mortgage end date. Lenders are used to continuing the mortgage for a few months.

    Even if they moved to call in the mortgage, which they won’t, they would need to go to court and that would take months.

    Once the endowments have matured you will have the money that you used to pay the premiums each month and can use this to repay the people you borrowed from.

    Without endowments you lose the life insurance it gave you, so consider whether you need to take out a replacement life insurance policy.
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 20th May 19, 10:09 PM
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    kingfisherblue
    • #8
    • 20th May 19, 10:09 PM
    • #8
    • 20th May 19, 10:09 PM
    Thank you for the reassurance Silvercar. I hadn't actually thought about the life insurance side of things, and you make a very good point. I'll be saving 30 a month on premiums, so not a lot, but it adds up. I'll also have the 135 a month (that I pay for my mortgage now) to pay family the amount I owe. It will take a while, but I will manage it.



    If I eventually receive any payout because of my complaint, that would obviously be used to pay back family too.



    Thank you for putting the time scales into perspective. I doubt if any court would kick me out of a specially adapted home if I can show that I am making every effort to pay the shortfall and that family are helping me - and hopefully it will never come to that! I would be so ashamed. It's hard enough to have to ask family for financial support, without the thought of court. Having said that, the judge who dealt with my divorce was a very wise and approachable man. He wasn't impressed with my then husband, who tried to deny that our son was severely disabled! It left me with a good impression of judges in family courts (although I already had a good impression, as I had been adopted as a teenager, and the judge then was lovely too).
    • Gettingtherequickly
    • By Gettingtherequickly 21st May 19, 8:31 AM
    • 4,117 Posts
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    Gettingtherequickly
    • #9
    • 21st May 19, 8:31 AM
    • #9
    • 21st May 19, 8:31 AM


    It left me with a good impression of judges in family courts (although I already had a good impression, as I had been adopted as a teenager, and the judge then was lovely too).
    Originally posted by kingfisherblue
    While I have no direct dealing with family court judges, many years ago I used to be involved with cadets and I was speaking to one of the dads one presentation evening. He was a charming man who was a family court judge and I all I could think of was "you are a judge and are wearing a tie with Mickey Mouse all over it!"
    A smile costs little but creates much
    • colinw
    • By colinw 21st May 19, 10:42 AM
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    colinw
    I don't really have much advice KB but I think you have done remarkably well in difficult circumstances and I wish you much luck
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 21st May 19, 1:25 PM
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    Fruitcake
    You have done a darned good job under very difficult circumstances, and you should be proud of yourself.

    I suggest getting hold of someone higher up the food chain with your mortgage provider. Is there a physical branch near you where you can get an appointment with the manager/assistant manager? That's the sort of person you need to talk to.
    You also need everything in writing if possible.

    If you have to 'phone, go as high up as you can, and make a note of their name, the date and time, and briefly what was agreed. Keep a notepad and pen by the 'phone, and get them to repeat or confirm what is being said if you are not sure.
    Work out what you want to say and use notes as reference before making the call.

    Then, write a letter saying, "further to our telephone conversation of X date where it was agreed that …" Don't forget to keep a copy.
    Send it first class from a Post Office counter and obtain a free proof of posting. By law this is assumed to have been delivered two working days after posting (The Interpretation Act).

    It is also worth contacting the endowment provider to see if you can cash in the policies early with little or no penalty, even if it is only a month early.

    I did this with one of my endowments a few years ago when I realised the gain during the last year was going to be less than the cost of the premiums so I cashed it in early. Even with a small loss it was still a better option.

    It may even be worth seeing if you can get a small mortgage to cover the shortfall. Obviously you would need to make payments, but it may be an amount you can afford once you stop your existing mortgage and endowments, and may mean you don't need to borrow money from your family.

    Have you applied for/are getting Carer's allowance for your son? CAB or some disabled charities may be able to tell you if you or your son are eligible for any other benefits.

    Good luck and please let us know how you get on with everything.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 21-05-2019 at 1:36 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Tigsteroonie
    • By Tigsteroonie 23rd May 19, 6:12 AM
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    Tigsteroonie
    Have you applied for/are getting Carer's allowance for your son? CAB or some disabled charities may be able to tell you if you or your son are eligible for any other benefits.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    KFB knows what she's doing with disability benefits - she's advised MSE members like me in the past

    I would echo what Silvercar has said - if the mortgage company were to consider taking you to court for the shortfall, it would take months rather than weeks and would cost them. They're not going to do that for the sake of three weeks delay between mortgage end and endowment term.
    Mrs Marleyboy

    MSE: many of the benefits of a helpful family, without disadvantages like having to compete for the tv remote

    Proud Parents to an Au-some son
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 14th Jun 19, 9:04 PM
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    kingfisherblue
    UPDATE:
    Well, what a terrible few weeks! I thought that I would update everyone now that I have some news though.
    Firstly, the mortgage provider will not freeze any interest or give a payment holiday. I explained that the interest is a major problem, and that it is making it much more difficult, but they will not shift. I'm going to try again next week.

    Secondly, my mum is unable to help, as she doesn't have much in the way of savings. My sister has confirmed that she is unable to help as well, although she promised me several years ago that she would. I can't deny that I am upset and disappointed, but she is supporting her child at university. I had hoped that she could help a bit though. I have no idea where I am going to find the remaining couple of thousand pounds that I need. I did have some savings, but needed to use them last year for essential repairs. It was only a few hundred, but it would have helped.

    However, the endowment company are willing to pay the mortgage provider directly, so that I don't have a large amount of money going through my account - I assume that if it did go into my account, I would have to inform the DWP, and my benefits might not be much, but at least they keep our heads above water. I do get Carer's Allowance for looking after my son, and I get an Income Support top up as well - although when CA went up in April, IS dropped to 43ish (from 45ish) a week.

    In other news, my mum received some forms to fill in this week, so I need to go and do that for her. She's also had a couple of minor emergencies that I've had to sort out. Next week she has two appointments that I am taking her to - she can't go on her own.

    I'm getting somewhere with my son's education. The college that he is at is finally taking my concerns seriously. He finishes at the end of June, and has a place in another college, again a special needs department, in a different town. I will know in August whether he will receive transport or not - I have another form to fill in for that!

    Finally, yesterday I received the letter about my son's DLA ending. I have to ring for a form to apply for PIP for him. I helped a friend with her son's form last year, and it's over thirty pages long. As my son has complex needs, I will not be able to fit everything in the boxes, so I think I will type it all out and bullet point everything. I've already started to gather evidence, but it has arrived at one of the more stressful times in my life.....

    I always look for the silver lining though. I'm sure that there is one there somewhere. It's just taking a bit longer to find today (might be all that rain that we've had . I think that the silver lining must be that my son has a place to continue his education in September. It's definitely one less thing to worry about.


    Apologies for the long post, but I thought that some posters might appreciate an update.
    • MovingForwards
    • By MovingForwards 14th Jun 19, 9:14 PM
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    MovingForwards
    Thanks for coming back.

    It's a minor setback but your mortgage company will have to extend the mortgage for a little while.

    Work out your budget and write that letter of complaint to the mortgage company, set out how much you will be paying each week / month however you do it and ask them to extend the mortgage by however long your estimate it will take, add an extra few months on just to be on the safe side.

    Don't be too disappointed with your sister, I know it will be frustrating, but it is what it is

    Good luck with the form filling.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Jun 19, 9:41 AM
    • 40,592 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    You may already be aware but CAB amongst others have people who will come and help with form filling by wording answers in a specific way to help the applicant.

    I don't know how old you are or if you would be eligible, but you may be able to get some free advice from a SOLLA agent (Society Of Later Life Advisors).

    We got an hour free when we needed advice about my Mum's affairs and later ours when I retired. They have in depth knowledge of many things regards caring for others, but generally aimed at the older generation or those coming up for retirement/retired.
    It wouldn't hurt to contact one and ask if they can help.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 15th Jun 19, 2:58 PM
    • 9,602 Posts
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    50Twuncle
    Did you get any compensation for a missold mortage ?
    I received over 7,000 in 2010 on a 30,000 policy taken out in 1987 through "Royal Sun" - when I too was young and naive !!
    it was paid by barclays

    I feel that it doesn't make up for all of my losses but it helps
    • colinw
    • By colinw 15th Jun 19, 3:06 PM
    • 55,795 Posts
    • 153,614 Thanks
    colinw
    I wish you better luck, you certainly deserve it
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