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  • FIRST POST
    • Jasn
    • By Jasn 17th May 19, 3:50 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Jasn
    Advice please! PCN for water damaged permit! Appeal rejected by POPLA!
    • #1
    • 17th May 19, 3:50 PM
    Advice please! PCN for water damaged permit! Appeal rejected by POPLA! 17th May 19 at 3:50 PM
    Hi everyone! First post on here due to a spot of bothers from a few PCN lately, I have read the guidance on this forum when I was appealing through UKPC and POPLA. I have 3 tickets thats had its appeal rejected by POPLA and liable for 300 charge.

    I'm a tenant of the residential estate which I've got the 3 tickets from. So here's the situation; all the hassle started when my car got broken into. (the same car park) The car park is a communal residential car park that requires permits.

    The first PCN I received was for not displaying a permit in my courtesy car, after the window of my car was broken. Second and third ticket was for my water damaged permit from car wash after the break in. UKPC claimed my water damaged permit was "Invalid", it was a permit that contains water mark. Now I've had my permit exchanged for a new one, as the property management approve of the legitimacy of the water damaged permit.

    So I've appealed though UKPC initially, they rejected me and offered a reduced charge to 15 per ticket (should've accepted that but I'm an idiot) so I've appealed through POPLA and also got rejected. In POPLA appeal I have stated the illegitimacy and justification for ticketing a resident, stating the ParkingEye v Beavis case, and what the judge said. Also the images from one of the PCN dose not even show the water damaged permit due to rain on windscreen. Despite this, POPLA still rejected the appeals.

    What should I do next? I really don't think I should pay for the two PCN from the water damaged permit. Should I just wait and see if UKPC will send me to court? (what are the chances they will?)

    The reason I'm reluctant to pay even at the reduced charge was, 2 of the tickets was given for my water damaged permit which are valid. The one that I didn't display the permit for the courtesy car was my bad and don't mind paying.

    Would they be able to find me if I wasn't the registered owner of the courtesy car? Bare in mind the garage that owns the car is a small backstreet body shop that did the work for my broken window, and I did not sign anything on it.

    Also I've sold and taken off the private reg on my car thats got the two tickets, will this affect anything?

    Thanks for reading!
Page 1
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 17th May 19, 4:10 PM
    • 1,314 Posts
    • 2,576 Thanks
    Johnersh
    • #2
    • 17th May 19, 4:10 PM
    • #2
    • 17th May 19, 4:10 PM
    1. If your tenancy says nothing about permit parking but does confer parking, permit display is a convenient device to assist the PPC to issue pcns to the unauthorised but it cannot trump your rights as tenant.
    2. If the PPC or managing agent could not have issued a temporary permit then you cannot display one. It's not like anyone knows what the reg of a hire car is likely to be
    3. The permit was sufficiently readable I presume that it looked like a permit. Most signs say a valid permit must be displayed but are silent as to the condition it must remain in, do I struggle to see that as a breach anyway.

    The offer of an admin type fee to get rid of all three does suggest that there is uncertainty that they'll make these stick. But we've seen PPCs fight silly cases before. As such I hope you have time to put the effort into heading these off.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 19, 6:42 PM
    • 72,324 Posts
    • 84,631 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 17th May 19, 6:42 PM
    • #3
    • 17th May 19, 6:42 PM
    What should I do next?
    Defend the court claim that will be filed by SCS Law, and win.

    I really don't think I should pay for the two PCN from the water damaged permit. Should I just wait and see if UKPC will send me to court? (what are the chances they will?)
    Don't pay ANY of them. Flipping heck! UKPC are not worthy of your money.

    The reason I'm reluctant to pay even at the reduced charge was, 2 of the tickets was given for my water damaged permit which are valid.
    Fair enough, and because you have primacy of contract (see any example residential defence here...Johnersh is a solicitor and an example written by him is in the NEWBIES thread second post).

    The one that I didn't display the permit for the courtesy car was my bad and don't mind paying.
    But we mind...
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 17th May 19, 7:37 PM
    • 11,251 Posts
    • 15,178 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #4
    • 17th May 19, 7:37 PM
    • #4
    • 17th May 19, 7:37 PM
    Take notice of Jonnersh and coupon-mad

    You need to read about UKPC, banned twice by the DVLA, one for attempted fraud against motorists. ???

    POPLA are a useless bunch and you probably got the teaboy

    No worries, if it goes to court, a judge will not take any notice of POPLA

    So why pay a made up admin fee to cancel to these scammers with a fraudulent mind set.
    So the permit was water damaged ? you still had a permit and do you really think a judge would rule in their favour.
    More so a judge would dismiss the case as timewasting, award you costs with a strong recommendation to UKPC that they visit Specsavers urgently
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Jasn
    • By Jasn 18th May 19, 2:02 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Jasn
    • #5
    • 18th May 19, 2:02 PM
    • #5
    • 18th May 19, 2:02 PM
    Thanks for the replies! My thoughts on this is very similar, or else I would've taken the reduced charge/admin fee offer. I'm going to collect as much evidence I can as this is still relatively recent, I have asked my property management to write a letter confirming that they've approved and exchanged the water damaged permit (also they will send it to UKPC, doubt that will cancel the PCN though). Also our lease contract do mention parking spaces, will look into that as well.

    Also the permit they use in the car park is just a simple laminated piece of paper that shows a logo, and dose not contain anymore information unlike the usual once.

    How long should I expect to take for UKPC to send me to court (or I received the first court letter) if they decide to?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 18th May 19, 2:42 PM
    • 13,115 Posts
    • 13,447 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #6
    • 18th May 19, 2:42 PM
    • #6
    • 18th May 19, 2:42 PM
    Have you seen this?

    https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Jasn
    • By Jasn 18th May 19, 3:12 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Jasn
    • #7
    • 18th May 19, 3:12 PM
    • #7
    • 18th May 19, 3:12 PM
    Thank you for the links, yes I'm aware of this, shame that the parliament didn't take action earlier as this is such a big issue for a long time.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th May 19, 1:27 AM
    • 72,324 Posts
    • 84,631 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 19th May 19, 1:27 AM
    • #8
    • 19th May 19, 1:27 AM
    How long should I expect to take for UKPC to send me to court (or I received the first court letter) if they decide to?
    Up to six years from the date of the event, but probably this year.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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