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  • FIRST POST
    • Haris Baig
    • By Haris Baig 17th May 19, 3:22 PM
    • 31Posts
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    Haris Baig
    Redundancy help
    • #1
    • 17th May 19, 3:22 PM
    Redundancy help 17th May 19 at 3:22 PM
    Hello,

    Our whole IT team of 3 made redundant, and we were given only two weeks to pack up and leave. I have been working with them for 3 years therefore they are offering me 3 weeks statutory pay and one month notice period pay which is not enough in London.
    They outsourced our jobs to another company and i have found out that it has been going on for past 5 to 6 months and they just informed us which leaving us very less time to find alternative jobs, this weeks passed through in shock and i couldn't concentrate looking for another job. and next week is our second consultation meeting where I have to either accept their offer or come up with something else.
    I want to know that is there any chance i could get more towards redundancy i.e. claim for unfair dismissal or any grievance. it has never happened to me before. i had a phone interview yesterday where i was asked my age, and today i received a refusal, now i am concerned that being 38 years old will get a job that easily.

    Please advise.

    Regards
    HB
Page 1
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 17th May 19, 3:39 PM
    • 8,058 Posts
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    Comms69
    • #2
    • 17th May 19, 3:39 PM
    • #2
    • 17th May 19, 3:39 PM
    Speak to your union.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 17th May 19, 3:46 PM
    • 11,867 Posts
    • 10,335 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    • #3
    • 17th May 19, 3:46 PM
    • #3
    • 17th May 19, 3:46 PM
    Redundancy means your job no longer exists, so if there is no requirement for an IT team, that is redundancy, it is not unfair dismissal.

    Also it does not matter if the offer "is not enough in London" unless London has special redundancy rules. All that matters is that due process has been followed, regard has been had to minimum notice period and payment (including holiday pay) and correct minimum redundancy pay based on length of service.
    Last edited by lincroft1710; 17-05-2019 at 3:56 PM.
    • Haris Baig
    • By Haris Baig 17th May 19, 3:49 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Haris Baig
    • #4
    • 17th May 19, 3:49 PM
    • #4
    • 17th May 19, 3:49 PM
    Thanks lincroft1710, so i cant bring this as unfair dismissal. how about grievance ?
    • polgara
    • By polgara 17th May 19, 3:53 PM
    • 414 Posts
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    polgara
    • #5
    • 17th May 19, 3:53 PM
    • #5
    • 17th May 19, 3:53 PM
    Use your energy into job searching rather than things like a grievance.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 17th May 19, 3:59 PM
    • 11,867 Posts
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    lincroft1710
    • #6
    • 17th May 19, 3:59 PM
    • #6
    • 17th May 19, 3:59 PM
    What is the point of a grievance? As Polgara said, concentrate your energies on job searching
    • Marcon
    • By Marcon 17th May 19, 4:07 PM
    • 955 Posts
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    Marcon
    • #7
    • 17th May 19, 4:07 PM
    • #7
    • 17th May 19, 4:07 PM
    If the outsourcing is to another company in the UK, 'secondary TUPE' may apply and you might normally expect to be transferred to the new company who will be providing the outsourced service. If you have at least two years' service your dismissal would automatically be unfair if the sole or main reason for the dismissal is the transfer to the new company. The dismissal would not be automatically unfair if the reason for your dismissal is unconnected with the transfer or is for something classed as an 'economic, technical or other' reason (ETO). This is quite a complex area, especially as your head is, understandably, in something of a spin.

    If the work is being outsourced to an overseas company, the above won't apply.

    A grievance probably won't succeed, but see https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights for more info and to check if your employer has done what they are legally required to do.

    It's unlawful to ask for an applicant's age unless there is a valid reason to do so (e.g. if you're applying a role where the law stipulates you must be at least a certain minimum age), so hopefully other potential employers will be more aware of their obligations. At 38 you really don't have that much to worry about unless you allow it to make you even more dispirited.

    I'd give ACAS's free helpline a call to discuss both the above: 0300 123 1150 (working hours Monday to Friday).
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 17th May 19, 4:15 PM
    • 11,867 Posts
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    lincroft1710
    • #8
    • 17th May 19, 4:15 PM
    • #8
    • 17th May 19, 4:15 PM
    If the outsourcing is to another company in the UK, 'secondary TUPE' may apply and you might normally expect to be transferred to the new company who will be providing the outsourced service. If you have at least two years' service your dismissal would automatically be unfair if the sole or main reason for the dismissal is the transfer to the new company.
    Originally posted by Marcon
    So what would the position be if I owned a company, decided to outsource my IT because it made economic sense, and the company to which I was outsourcing did not need extra staff because it had surplus staff having just lost a contract
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 17th May 19, 4:15 PM
    • 18,688 Posts
    • 11,513 Thanks
    motorguy
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 4:15 PM
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 4:15 PM
    Thanks lincroft1710, so i cant bring this as unfair dismissal. how about grievance ?
    Originally posted by Haris Baig
    Its not unfear dismissal. You might be able to bring a grievance with the company about how they've handled it, but why bother? Even IF they uphold it, you'll be long gone by then anyway.

    Concentrate on finding a new job.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 17th May 19, 4:19 PM
    • 18,688 Posts
    • 11,513 Thanks
    motorguy
    If the outsourcing is to another company in the UK, 'secondary TUPE' may apply and you might normally expect to be transferred to the new company who will be providing the outsourced service. If you have at least two years' service your dismissal would automatically be unfair if the sole or main reason for the dismissal is the transfer to the new company. The dismissal would not be automatically unfair if the reason for your dismissal is unconnected with the transfer or is for something classed as an 'economic, technical or other' reason (ETO). This is quite a complex area, especially as your head is, understandably, in something of a spin.

    If the work is being outsourced to an overseas company, the above won't apply.

    A grievance probably won't succeed, but see https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights for more info and to check if your employer has done what they are legally required to do.

    It's unlawful to ask for an applicant's age unless there is a valid reason to do so (e.g. if you're applying a role where the law stipulates you must be at least a certain minimum age), so hopefully other potential employers will be more aware of their obligations. At 38 you really don't have that much to worry about unless you allow it to make you even more dispirited.

    I'd give ACAS's free helpline a call to discuss both the above: 0300 123 1150 (working hours Monday to Friday).
    Originally posted by Marcon
    So lets say he gets TUPE'd over, then they can make him redundant anyway?

    Perhaps TUPE doesnt apply at all? If this team of 3 are supporting a particular system, then maybe the new company simply wont have those roles, but will support it in another way?
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 17th May 19, 4:20 PM
    • 18,688 Posts
    • 11,513 Thanks
    motorguy
    Unless the O/P was incredibly underpaid, are we to assume the work is being outsourced to an offshore company?
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • McKneff
    • By McKneff 17th May 19, 5:09 PM
    • 36,496 Posts
    • 47,051 Thanks
    McKneff
    Thats it I'm afraid, you are being paid the statutory minimum.
    No unfair dissmissal, no grievance.

    Just keep looking, its all you can do, good luck
    make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
    and we will never, ever return.
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 17th May 19, 7:12 PM
    • 19,550 Posts
    • 20,335 Thanks
    jobbingmusician
    And just to reassure you - redundancy is commonplace, nowadays. It won't count against you in your CV and there should be no (particular) difficulty in getting another job.

    When you get your final pay, make sure they pay you for any accrued holiday on top of your statutory notice and redundancy pay.

    You mention that they have suggested you can make alternative proposals to them. They are obliged to redeploy you if there are any suitable jobs within the company - are there? One of the things you could do at this meeting is to ask them what vacancies are available and could they please send you details of any available jobs so you can make your own judgement about redeployment.
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    • Haris Baig
    • By Haris Baig 20th May 19, 11:25 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Haris Baig
    Hi Guys,

    Just came out of meeting, It was in calmly manner, they explained me that main reason for going to another company is 24 hours support whereas when i joined i was told that sometime we have to give out of hours supports therefore we were given mobiles phones. when i said we were supporting out of hours then i was told that we don't expect you to work in night after your day shift.

    also, they might ask me to work on my notice period which i really don't want to work. I really want to spend this time finding another job. I have given them my proposal asking another month salary to help me out.

    lets see what they ll decide in my final meeting.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 20th May 19, 12:36 PM
    • 8,058 Posts
    • 9,000 Thanks
    Comms69
    Hi Guys,

    Just came out of meeting, It was in calmly manner, they explained me that main reason for going to another company is 24 hours support whereas when i joined i was told that sometime we have to give out of hours supports therefore we were given mobiles phones. when i said we were supporting out of hours then i was told that we don't expect you to work in night after your day shift.

    also, they might ask me to work on my notice period which i really don't want to work. I really want to spend this time finding another job. I have given them my proposal asking another month salary to help me out.

    lets see what they ll decide in my final meeting.
    Originally posted by Haris Baig


    You do have the right to time of for interviews etc.
    • Doshwaster
    • By Doshwaster 20th May 19, 1:26 PM
    • 5,163 Posts
    • 4,261 Thanks
    Doshwaster
    Yes, redundancy can be a shock especially if it the first time it has ever happened to you but the most important thing to do is not panic. Look on the positive side: If you work in IT support in London then there is never any shortage of available work - it's not as if you are a car marker in Swindon. I would register with every agency you can find, freshen up your LinkedIn profile (and if you don't have one, get one) and reach out to friends and former colleagues to see if their workplace is hiring.

    Big employers often have short fixed term IT contracts for 3-6 available to fill in gaps for specific projects. The secret is knowing the people who know when they are available as they are often not widely advertised (often they have an exclusive deal with one agency) and are filled quickly. Even if it's not what you want to do long-term it can give you some income while you look for something more permanent.

    There's no stigma about being made redundant. It happens to everyone eventually and the advantage is for your next employer that you are available immediately without any notice to serve.
    Last edited by Doshwaster; 20-05-2019 at 1:41 PM.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 20th May 19, 1:37 PM
    • 6,389 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    Your skillset will be of far more interest to prospective employers than your age. If you have been working on current technology you shouldn't have too much trouble finding other work as long as you are flexible and realistic about what you will accept both in terms of role and salary. You may accept a role that you don't particularly want in order to keep money coming in, and continue to look for the ideal job.
    Redundancy can come as a shock, none more so that the first time I was caught up in it when I was actually told there would be some redundancies but that my role would not be affected. A few weeks later I discovered that was most definitely not true.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 20th May 19, 3:20 PM
    • 5,922 Posts
    • 10,149 Thanks
    Gavin83
    also, they might ask me to work on my notice period which i really don't want to work. I really want to spend this time finding another job. I have given them my proposal asking another month salary to help me out.
    Originally posted by Haris Baig
    What are you giving them in return for a months salary?

    How long is your notice period? I'd have thought the extra few months salary to find a job would have been better than your salary ending on day 1.
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