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    • fifer82
    • By fifer82 17th May 19, 12:37 PM
    • 4Posts
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    fifer82
    John Pye online auction, everything is broken on arrival, anything I can do?
    • #1
    • 17th May 19, 12:37 PM
    John Pye online auction, everything is broken on arrival, anything I can do? 17th May 19 at 12:37 PM
    Hello!

    So I spent a few hundred pound at johnpye.co.uk on 3 computer items, and all of them are broken:
    • The CPU I bought was full of bent pins. I believe 3 are missing entirely making it useless. This is damage not viewable from the image provided on the lot.
    • The Motherboard I bought has no tray for the CPU as it is clearly broken, and all of the mounting framework is missing so even if the CPU was fine, it wouldn't be possible to attach it. Again a picture of the box online with no details saying it is physically damaged.
    • The GPU I bought seems fine, but it doesn't boot on 2 machines I tried it on, so it is goosed as well. In this case, I would kind of understand. It looks fine and you couldn't know it was broken. OK my bad... that is a risk I guess i took.


    Have I been scammed by this process, or do I have any rights? It is difficult to find more information because it is an online auction that isn't ebay, and also I didn't buy it in person.

    Here is Terms and Conditions.

    johnpye.co.uk/terms/general-auction-terms-and-conditions.pdf
    Thanks for reading.
Page 1
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 17th May 19, 1:04 PM
    • 12,909 Posts
    • 9,669 Thanks
    neilmcl
    • #2
    • 17th May 19, 1:04 PM
    • #2
    • 17th May 19, 1:04 PM
    I've been buying from JP for years and the golden rule when buying electronics in particular or any other item is to view and test them if you can before bidding. I assume you just placed bids without actually going to the showroom.

    Unfortunately you have no rights for a a refund I'm afraid. Their T&Cs are very explicit about this and within the law.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 17th May 19, 1:08 PM
    • 62,028 Posts
    • 44,480 Thanks
    soolin
    • #3
    • 17th May 19, 1:08 PM
    • #3
    • 17th May 19, 1:08 PM
    Terms and conditions here

    https://www.johnpye.co.uk/terms/general-auction-terms-and-conditions.pdf

    Which suggest that buyers should inspect items beforehand, otherwise it is buyer beware.

    Even sites that recommend them like

    https://10ways.com/profit/quick/john-pye-auctions-is-it-a-scam-is-it-legit-we-reveal-all Warn buyers that inspection is a must as a lot of the goods can be broken returns and damaged items and with such vague catalogue descriptions and no guarantee you could be buying rubbish.

    I buy a lot at auctions, I have on a very few occasions bought unseen, it's very rare and I would normally phone the auctioneer for an inspection report, catalogue entries tend to be one line at most, and photos rarely help when buying second had used or returned damaged goods.
    Last edited by soolin; 17-05-2019 at 1:11 PM.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • fifer82
    • By fifer82 17th May 19, 6:19 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    fifer82
    • #4
    • 17th May 19, 6:19 PM
    • #4
    • 17th May 19, 6:19 PM
    Thanks for your insight guys.

    So the fact that it was an online auction where it wasn't listed as physically damaged, and I did not attend in person seems to me to be a misrepresentation of goods.

    Why do they sell TVs as "SMASHED / BROKEN / SALVAGED" on the listing, but not on other items, isn't that a misrepresentation of the goods (online)?

    Code:
    nidirect.gov.uk/articles/auctions
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 17th May 19, 6:39 PM
    • 12,909 Posts
    • 9,669 Thanks
    neilmcl
    • #5
    • 17th May 19, 6:39 PM
    • #5
    • 17th May 19, 6:39 PM
    Thanks for your insight guys.

    So the fact that it was an online auction where it wasn't listed as physically damaged, and I did not attend in person seems to me to be a misrepresentation of goods.

    Why do they sell TVs as "SMASHED / BROKEN / SALVAGED" on the listing, but not on other items, isn't that a misrepresentation of the goods (online)?

    Code:
    nidirect.gov.uk/articles/auctions
    Originally posted by fifer82
    It's not simply an online auction as you have the opportunity to inspect the goods beforehand.
    • bris
    • By bris 17th May 19, 6:48 PM
    • 8,646 Posts
    • 7,562 Thanks
    bris
    • #6
    • 17th May 19, 6:48 PM
    • #6
    • 17th May 19, 6:48 PM
    Most, if not all auction houses now have an online presence, but the golden rule is they are still sold at the venue to real buyers. I haven't bought anything from one for a while now but it was handy to go see the items first then on the day you could bid online if you can't make it that day.
    • fifer82
    • By fifer82 17th May 19, 6:57 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    fifer82
    • #7
    • 17th May 19, 6:57 PM
    • #7
    • 17th May 19, 6:57 PM
    Cheers!

    Finally what about my Credit Card, can I dispute the item and go down that road?
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 17th May 19, 7:21 PM
    • 3,767 Posts
    • 5,675 Thanks
    powerful_Rogue
    • #8
    • 17th May 19, 7:21 PM
    • #8
    • 17th May 19, 7:21 PM
    Cheers!

    Finally what about my Credit Card, can I dispute the item and go down that road?
    Originally posted by fifer82

    Course you can. They will also dispute, provide proof and you will more then likely lose.
    If you do, expect to receive a LBA from the auction house.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 17th May 19, 8:25 PM
    • 62,028 Posts
    • 44,480 Thanks
    soolin
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 8:25 PM
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 8:25 PM
    Just looked at a few of their lots and all say

    PLEASE NOTE: This is a Public Auction, not a consumer or retail sale – Lots inc. second-hand, returns, ex-display and damaged goods, sold as seen with no guarantees which is why Public Viewing is available (below) and recommended.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 17th May 19, 9:05 PM
    • 10,863 Posts
    • 12,323 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    At least with online only auctions you have the fallback of a 14 day right of cancellation using your Consumer contract regulations rights (if purchasing as a consumer from a business), something that you don't get if the possibility of inspecting it before bidding was there.
    • fifer82
    • By fifer82 18th May 19, 1:54 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    fifer82
    Thanks everyone.

    Oh well! I had a drink last night and when I got back I seen this window open and I started down a rabbit hole. I couldn't live with myself if I am 300 down and John Pye is laughing all the way to the bank. My hands are tied.

    However, what if I play the same online game of misdirection?

    I fired together a ScapeBox profile for John Pye and run it on a Sunday to scrape all of the (onsite) lots into JSON. Then using the Azure Bot Framework and a ton of proxied emails, to generate a slow but relatively random and steady set of esquires.

    Each John Pye Location has the following possibility (but the chances are low, it cannot be too frequent or patterned).

    1. Contact JP about mundane questions on auction topics.
    2. Contact JP about a specific Lot details for a specific site.
    3. Contact JP about Packaging Requests for ended lots.
    4. Contact JP with dud shipping labels (I found a generator for PDF on Github).
    5. Contact JP disputing invoices of lots.

    Lets say a human is 10 pound an hour. Of course the premium (300 +20% + 20%) would require roughly the investment of 45 hours worth of wasted time. I guessed when split across the locations, and accounting for lack of patterning, by October I could be where I wanted to be.

    A small victory for my 300 pound landfill, atleast to me.
    • LilElvis
    • By LilElvis 18th May 19, 2:20 PM
    • 4,331 Posts
    • 11,517 Thanks
    LilElvis
    Thanks everyone.

    Oh well! I had a drink last night and when I got back I seen this window open and I started down a rabbit hole. I couldn't live with myself if I am 300 down and John Pye is laughing all the way to the bank. My hands are tied.

    However, what if I play the same online game of misdirection?

    I fired together a ScapeBox profile for John Pye and run it on a Sunday to scrape all of the (onsite) lots into JSON. Then using the Azure Bot Framework and a ton of proxied emails, to generate a slow but relatively random and steady set of esquires.

    Each John Pye Location has the following possibility (but the chances are low, it cannot be too frequent or patterned).

    1. Contact JP about mundane questions on auction topics.
    2. Contact JP about a specific Lot details for a specific site.
    3. Contact JP about Packaging Requests for ended lots.
    4. Contact JP with dud shipping labels (I found a generator for PDF on Github).
    5. Contact JP disputing invoices of lots.

    Lets say a human is 10 pound an hour. Of course the premium (300 +20% + 20%) would require roughly the investment of 45 hours worth of wasted time. I guessed when split across the locations, and accounting for lack of patterning, by October I could be where I wanted to be.

    A small victory for my 300 pound landfill, atleast to me.
    Originally posted by fifer82
    Shame you didn't put in this much time and effort into researching their terms before bidding. Not a very nice thing to do, punishing a company because of your own failings.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 18th May 19, 2:46 PM
    • 3,693 Posts
    • 5,030 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    Shame you didn't put in this much time and effort into researching their terms before bidding. Not a very nice thing to do, punishing a company because of your own failings.
    Originally posted by LilElvis
    Absolutely. Still, at least the OP has his "small-minded victory."

    Another of those people who won't take responsibility for their own error.
    • Matty36
    • By Matty36 18th May 19, 3:20 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 61 Thanks
    Matty36
    Thanks everyone.

    Oh well! I had a drink last night and when I got back I seen this window open and I started down a rabbit hole. I couldn't live with myself if I am 300 down and John Pye is laughing all the way to the bank. My hands are tied.

    However, what if I play the same online game of misdirection?

    I fired together a ScapeBox profile for John Pye and run it on a Sunday to scrape all of the (onsite) lots into JSON. Then using the Azure Bot Framework and a ton of proxied emails, to generate a slow but relatively random and steady set of esquires.

    Each John Pye Location has the following possibility (but the chances are low, it cannot be too frequent or patterned).

    1. Contact JP about mundane questions on auction topics.
    2. Contact JP about a specific Lot details for a specific site.
    3. Contact JP about Packaging Requests for ended lots.
    4. Contact JP with dud shipping labels (I found a generator for PDF on Github).
    5. Contact JP disputing invoices of lots.

    Lets say a human is 10 pound an hour. Of course the premium (300 +20% + 20%) would require roughly the investment of 45 hours worth of wasted time. I guessed when split across the locations, and accounting for lack of patterning, by October I could be where I wanted to be.

    A small victory for my 300 pound landfill, atleast to me.
    Originally posted by fifer82
    Literally no idea what your talking about. You should just take this one on the chin and learn from it
    • Rodtheplod
    • By Rodtheplod 18th May 19, 4:21 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Rodtheplod
    However, what if I play the same online game of misdirection?
    Originally posted by fifer82
    I'd be very careful about taking this course of action. Especially as you're admitting to doing in on a public forum.

    Depending on how well (or badly) you implement this, it could be construed as a denial of service attack (where you intentionally impair the operation of a computer system) which is a crime under the Computer Misuse Act 1990. Granted, your actions might not take their system down, but under the letter of the law you are intentionally impairing their systems. So I'd tread carefully there.

    As others have said: it's an unfortunate situation, but their website does say that items could be broken/non-functioning, and they recommend inspecting those items before purchase. So they're not really in the wrong if you didn't take that advice.

    Put this one down to experience, and move on, would be my advice.
    • Rainbowgirl84
    • By Rainbowgirl84 18th May 19, 4:30 PM
    • 845 Posts
    • 1,502 Thanks
    Rainbowgirl84
    Thanks everyone.

    Oh well! I had a drink last night and when I got back I seen this window open and I started down a rabbit hole. I couldn't live with myself if I am 300 down and John Pye is laughing all the way to the bank. My hands are tied.

    However, what if I play the same online game of misdirection?

    I fired together a ScapeBox profile for John Pye and run it on a Sunday to scrape all of the (onsite) lots into JSON. Then using the Azure Bot Framework and a ton of proxied emails, to generate a slow but relatively random and steady set of esquires.

    Each John Pye Location has the following possibility (but the chances are low, it cannot be too frequent or patterned).

    1. Contact JP about mundane questions on auction topics.
    2. Contact JP about a specific Lot details for a specific site.
    3. Contact JP about Packaging Requests for ended lots.
    4. Contact JP with dud shipping labels (I found a generator for PDF on Github).
    5. Contact JP disputing invoices of lots.

    Lets say a human is 10 pound an hour. Of course the premium (300 +20% + 20%) would require roughly the investment of 45 hours worth of wasted time. I guessed when split across the locations, and accounting for lack of patterning, by October I could be where I wanted to be.

    A small victory for my 300 pound landfill, atleast to me.
    Originally posted by fifer82
    You do realise you provided John Pye with your name and address and therefore are identifiable.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 18th May 19, 7:22 PM
    • 34,191 Posts
    • 21,604 Thanks
    DCFC79
    Dont put the parts into landfill, is there a company who will strip the parts down.
    • mattyprice4004
    • By mattyprice4004 18th May 19, 10:30 PM
    • 3,952 Posts
    • 3,534 Thanks
    mattyprice4004
    I’m not happy seeing an innocent company dragged through the mud because someone doesn’t have a clue what they’re doing in an auction - so I’ve emailed them the posts in this thread.

    Hopefully they’ll take the appropriate action to protect their name and resources
    Not digging into the fact that your ‘clever’ plan is just random fancy sounding words that are actually gibberish
    • waamo
    • By waamo 18th May 19, 11:08 PM
    • 6,541 Posts
    • 8,667 Thanks
    waamo
    If it's going to take 45 hours of unpaid work just to make them out of pocket why not do 45 hours of real, paid work yourself and recoup actual cash?
    This space for hire.
    • ThumbRemote
    • By ThumbRemote 18th May 19, 11:59 PM
    • 4,010 Posts
    • 5,098 Thanks
    ThumbRemote
    Just looked at a few of their lots and all say

    PLEASE NOTE: This is a Public Auction, not a consumer or retail sale – Lots inc. second-hand, returns, ex-display and damaged goods, sold as seen with no guarantees which is why Public Viewing is available (below) and recommended.
    Originally posted by soolin
    There is no legal basis for 'sold as seen' in consumer law. Can you explain why it is considered legal in an auction? Genuine question.
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