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  • FIRST POST
    • L.P.Gibson
    • By L.P.Gibson 17th May 19, 9:50 AM
    • 11Posts
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    L.P.Gibson
    National Parking Enforcement Ltd. "Driver Failed to Correctly Register Vehicle"
    • #1
    • 17th May 19, 9:50 AM
    National Parking Enforcement Ltd. "Driver Failed to Correctly Register Vehicle" 17th May 19 at 9:50 AM
    The driver and passenger, both “retirees”, parked in a car park, which they believed was the parking facility attached to the attraction they were visiting (however it is independent). The attractions in the immediate vicinity are of the type that might draw a greater proportion of senior people.



    Given the parking restrictions in the area there was no other parking opportunity in the area. They noticed a ticket machine and bought a ticket for one hour’s parking. Both driver and passenger were at the ticket machine when this purchase was made. After inserting the money (£1 for 1 hour parking) and pressing the “green button”, a request appeared to enter the vehicle’s registration number. This was done by the passenger and observed by the driver. A ticket printed out and was placed on top of the car’s facia in a prominent position.



    The registered keeper has received a Parking Charge Notice (PCN), from National Parking Enforcement Ltd., for £100 (£60 if paid within 14 days of the notice). The reason for issue: “Driver Failed To Correctly Register Vehicle or Pay For Parking”. The PCN has details of the vehicle obtained from DVLA and two images of the car entering and leaving the car park, evidencing that the car was in the car park for 32mins and 21secs. The ticket that was issued has been retained. The information on this does not align with the ticket’s format text. The parking valid parking period is detailed but under the heading “DATE”. It has no date, no company details, does not indicate the location. It seems to have some type of identification code at the bottom. It does not have the vehicle registration, although where this might have been (in comparison with a local authority issued ticket) there are the digits 00. More digits were definitely entered so it appears that the machine may have determined a mismatch between the information keyed in with the APNR data obtained when the car entered the car park. No indication was given that there was a mismatch or, indeed, that the machine was operating correctly.



    The car park in question is some distance from the home of the car’s occupants, they have been unable to return to the location to check signage etc. and particularly the process through which they were sold a parking ticket which was invalid. Having read through a good proportion of the information in this forum the “victims” feel that they do not have the momentum to pursue an appeal (particularly as the forum evidences that this process is controlled by and biased in favour of the CPC (and illustrates “regulatory capture”). and do not wish to proceed to a situation where they have to defend themselves in a court. They, therefore, feel compromised to submit to this disproportionate and unreasonable demand for an amount of money which is “significant” to people in their station in life.


    For an image of this company’s offices at The Studio, St Nicholas Close, Elstree, Herts, WD6 3EW see Google Maps.
    Last edited by L.P.Gibson; 17-05-2019 at 10:57 AM. Reason: ormatting change
Page 1
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 17th May 19, 10:18 AM
    • 4,657 Posts
    • 6,686 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #2
    • 17th May 19, 10:18 AM
    • #2
    • 17th May 19, 10:18 AM
    eek!hugewalloftextmakesyouropeningposthaardtoreada nychanceofbreakingitupintoparagraphs?

    on a secondary note, to the best of your knowledge, was the number inputted into the machine?

    she's the number plate contain the number Zero, one, and or the letters L and or I ?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • L.P.Gibson
    • By L.P.Gibson 17th May 19, 10:49 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    L.P.Gibson
    • #3
    • 17th May 19, 10:49 AM
    • #3
    • 17th May 19, 10:49 AM
    Thanks for your advice re: format. Both people involved say they remember the number being entered and were not aware of any error. Do you mean "Does the number plate ......"?. It has no digits 0 or1 or letters L or I.
    Last edited by L.P.Gibson; 17-05-2019 at 10:51 AM. Reason: grammer
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 17th May 19, 10:56 AM
    • 6,871 Posts
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    DoaM
    • #4
    • 17th May 19, 10:56 AM
    • #4
    • 17th May 19, 10:56 AM
    5 S
    8 B

    These are also common characters for misreading.

    Does the copy of the ticket include the vehicle registration? If yes, is it correct?

    The technology is obviously there to validate vehicle registrations at the time of paying for parking - a car park not far from me used to be setup this way. (Pay for time parked by entering your reg into the machine and it told you how long you' been there and how much to pay). PPCs deliberately avoid using it so that they can catch people out.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 17th May 19, 11:00 AM
    • 39,564 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    • #5
    • 17th May 19, 11:00 AM
    • #5
    • 17th May 19, 11:00 AM
    What happened when the keeper complained to the landowner of the car park?

    Has the keeper complained to their MP yet about this unregulated scam?

    Have warnings been sent via social media and the local press that there are defective machines on site that do not record the correct VRN?

    It is easy to touch the key next to the one you actually want without realising it. I have also seen a touchscreen at Southmead Hospital where my sleeve caused other letters to appear as my coat passed over it but without touching. This is linked to an ANPR system and tells you if the VRN typed in is not the same as any vehicle in the car park. The technology exists, but again as above, the scammers won't use it because they are scammers.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 17-05-2019 at 11:09 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 19, 11:00 AM
    • 72,078 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 17th May 19, 11:00 AM
    • #6
    • 17th May 19, 11:00 AM
    The ticket that was issued has been retained. The information on this does not align with the ticket’s format text.

    The parking valid parking period is detailed but under the heading “DATE”. It has no date, no company details, does not indicate the location. It seems to have some type of identification code at the bottom.

    It does not have the vehicle registration, although where this might have been (in comparison with a local authority issued ticket) there are the digits 00.
    Take a photocopy of the ticket and send it with an appeal to NPE, with cc 'name of their MP' along the top, so NPE can see an MP is involved.

    And send the same to their MP and ask if they will please write to NPE and try to force a climbdown, as this was machine failure. Also alert the MP to the fact this NPE also went by the name Norfolk Parking Enforcement (ex clampers) and is notorious, so this is no innocent mistake or easy to appeal customer service type company!

    Show the MP this stuff so they know who NPE are (now using the name 'National'):

    https://norwich.greenparty.org.uk/news/2018/03/02/letter-to-minister-about-rogue-parking-companies/

    https://norwich.greenparty.org.uk/news/2017/04/15/earlham-house-shops-threatened-by-parking-charges/

    That's probably not the same car park, but this illustrates what local Councillors think about NPE and it's important the MP sees this in context.

    Send a copy to the management of the attractions as well, strongly worded.

    Finally, as your parents are seniors, and might just fold & pay when the appeal is rejected and debt letters arrive, why not do what I would do, and when appealing in their name, tell NPE that they have changed their address for service to (your address) and ask for their right to have their old address erased under GDPR rules.

    Then YOU will get all the threatograms and it affects neither them nor you.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • BrownTrout
    • By BrownTrout 17th May 19, 11:54 AM
    • 264 Posts
    • 295 Thanks
    BrownTrout
    • #7
    • 17th May 19, 11:54 AM
    • #7
    • 17th May 19, 11:54 AM
    I would echo the above but I would remove the address for service just say *changed address*
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 17th May 19, 1:43 PM
    • 14,715 Posts
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    KeithP
    • #8
    • 17th May 19, 1:43 PM
    • #8
    • 17th May 19, 1:43 PM
    OP, have you based your forum username on your real name?

    If so, you would be wise to get your forum username changed to something very much more anonymous.

    To help with that, you might like to read this short extract from The MSE Forum Guide - Frequently Asked Questions & Rules:
    Q. How can I change my username?

    A.
    In most circumstances, this is not permitted.

    The only reason we will change your username is if it puts your privacy at risk. This usually means you've inadvertently registered using your name, email address or something that gives away your identity within your username.

    If you fall into this category, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com and request that it is changed, giving three alternative usernames in order of preference.
    .
    • L.P.Gibson
    • By L.P.Gibson 17th May 19, 2:32 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    L.P.Gibson
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 2:32 PM
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 2:32 PM
    Thanks, but this is not my real name.
    • L.P.Gibson
    • By L.P.Gibson 18th May 19, 8:12 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    L.P.Gibson
    Thanks Fruitcake
    What happened when the keeper complained to the landowner of the car park?

    Has the keeper complained to their MP yet about this unregulated scam?
    So far identifying the landowner has not been successful. The MP of the constituency in which the two individuals live has been emailed.
    Last edited by L.P.Gibson; 18-05-2019 at 8:15 AM. Reason: spelling
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th May 19, 8:18 AM
    • 23,374 Posts
    • 37,248 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    So far identifying the landowner has not been successful.
    Originally posted by L.P.Gibson
    Try phoning the local council covering the car park location and ask which organisation pays the non domestic rates on the car park.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 18th May 19, 8:28 AM
    • 13,018 Posts
    • 13,353 Thanks
    The Deep
    Many judges regard failure to properly enter a VRN as a trifle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis

    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams and will fail in court so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • L.P.Gibson
    • By L.P.Gibson 20th May 19, 9:47 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    L.P.Gibson
    Re:Appeals and Charging?
    The PCN recieved from National Parking Enforcement Ltd says"Once an appeal has been received the charge will be placed on hold until a decision is made." Does this mean that if you are still in the lower charge period that the charge is put on hold at £60 or do you, as a result of the appeal taking you over 14 days end up with the increased demand for £100?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 20th May 19, 9:51 AM
    • 13,018 Posts
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    The Deep
    Surely you would have to enquire of the PPC about that. They are slippery customers and delight in using weasel words.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 20th May 19, 10:00 AM
    • 39,564 Posts
    • 88,255 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Surely you want the MSE 100% discount. I doubt anyone here will be interested in discussing the irrelevant 14 day bribe period for mugs.

    Have you read the sticky thread for NEWBIES yet and sent that appeal template in blue text from The Keeper?

    Have you received a NTK yet, and if so have you checked to see if it is PoFA complaint or not?

    What happened when you complained to the landowner?

    Have you complained to your MP yet.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • L.P.Gibson
    • By L.P.Gibson 20th May 19, 10:02 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    L.P.Gibson
    Thanks The Deep. Trouble is you can't get anyone on a phone and any other way enables a "delay in responding" again reducing the "grace period".
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th May 19, 10:05 AM
    • 72,078 Posts
    • 84,416 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The PCN recieved from National Parking Enforcement Ltd says"Once an appeal has been received the charge will be placed on hold until a decision is made." Does this mean that if you are still in the lower charge period that the charge is put on hold at £60 or do you, as a result of the appeal taking you over 14 days end up with the increased demand for £100?
    Originally posted by L.P.Gibson
    Who cares? It's NPE! No-one in their right mind rings or pays that bunch.

    https://norwich.greenparty.org.uk/news/2018/03/02/letter-to-minister-about-rogue-parking-companies/

    https://norwich.greenparty.org.uk/news/2016/06/04/stop-heavy-handed-parking-enforcement-at-earlham-house-shops/

    We already know what the decision will be. Surely you do too?

    This bunch are ex-clampers who changed their name from NPE to NPE (different first word!) but have never cleaned up their act, as shown by the fact they are IPC members. Pointless appeal, pointless even thinking about the scam, certainly no picking up the phone thinking they have customer service staff!

    Ignore the eejits after sending the forum template appeal to look more reasonable than them, and don't tell them who was driving. See the NEWBIES thread.

    Come back if NPE try a small claim within 6 years and keep/laugh at the letters.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; Yesterday at 10:07 AM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • L.P.Gibson
    • By L.P.Gibson 20th May 19, 10:06 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    L.P.Gibson
    Thanks Fruitcake. I was thinking more in terms of a delaying tactic. Has anyone ever had a first level appeal accepted?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 20th May 19, 10:06 AM
    • 14,715 Posts
    • 16,914 Thanks
    KeithP
    Is this related to your thread that you started just three days ago?

    If so, please ask a Board Guide to merge your threads.

    Please keep all posts related to one incident to a single thread. Thanks.
    .
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 20th May 19, 10:39 AM
    • 13,018 Posts
    • 13,353 Thanks
    The Deep
    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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