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  • FIRST POST
    • Martinez83
    • By Martinez83 16th May 19, 12:39 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Martinez83
    ECS PCN - draft to appeal help
    • #1
    • 16th May 19, 12:39 PM
    ECS PCN - draft to appeal help 16th May 19 at 12:39 PM
    Hi All,

    Iíve checked newbies thread but canít find what I am looking for.

    Essentially I am after a draft to appeal a PCN from Euro Car Services carpark. Someone I know have parked on their car park when visiting a mexican restaurant in the morning. No parking payment was made as the person assumed it was free of charge retail parking (there were some parking signs which were obviously missed, staff member when asked said it was free of charge).

    So is there a point to appeal (the drafts I have seen are for overstay only) or should the person give up and pay 60 gbp charge?

    Thanks,

    Martinez
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th May 19, 12:50 PM
    • 72,078 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 16th May 19, 12:50 PM
    • #2
    • 16th May 19, 12:50 PM
    Euro Car Services
    Check the name; that isn't a firm we have ever heard of, so that looks like a typo.

    The template is NOT about an overstay! You can delete that bit safely if you wish.

    Of course the victim doesn't pay, albeit they need to understand that, assuming this is an IPC firm, appeal doesn't actually 'work' in that these firms NEVER just cancel.

    That is NOT a reason to pay a scam - that would be like paying a determined email phishing scam.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Martinez83
    • By Martinez83 16th May 19, 1:01 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinez83
    • #3
    • 16th May 19, 1:01 PM
    • #3
    • 16th May 19, 1:01 PM
    Sorry - its Euro Car Parks. Is that “legitimate” company?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th May 19, 1:05 PM
    • 72,078 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 16th May 19, 1:05 PM
    • #4
    • 16th May 19, 1:05 PM
    LOL, only ECP then. None of these firms are legit; the whole industry operate a scam.

    No-one ever pays them here, and I've ignored ECP myself twice, before POPLA existed as an option to try to bat it away.

    They are a BPA company that (currently) never sue people, but sometimes win at POPLA. If that happens, people just ignore them.

    This is no different than any other case, and the NEWBIES thread covers what you need to do - complain to the retailers, and appeal as keeper to ECP to get a POPLA code.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Martinez83
    • By Martinez83 16th May 19, 1:25 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinez83
    • #5
    • 16th May 19, 1:25 PM
    • #5
    • 16th May 19, 1:25 PM
    Thank you so much.

    So just to clarify - should the appeal template from first post in newbies thread be used or is there a specific letter somewhere else? And should we complain to retail first or do both things (complain plus appeal) simultaneously?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th May 19, 1:29 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 16th May 19, 1:29 PM
    • #6
    • 16th May 19, 1:29 PM
    I tend to say complain first, as you have 28 days before you need to appeal to ECP in the first instance (so no rush) and if you appeal too soon you put pressure on yourself with the clock ticking on a POPLA code, having got a rejection letter from ECP sooner than you need to.

    There is no letter anywhere else, please use the template - and no need to change it even though some is not relevant, who cares, ECP know it!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Martinez83
    • By Martinez83 16th May 19, 6:05 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinez83
    • #7
    • 16th May 19, 6:05 PM
    • #7
    • 16th May 19, 6:05 PM
    Quick one - does the appeal draft works for missed pay by phone transactions too?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th May 19, 7:15 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 16th May 19, 7:15 PM
    • #8
    • 16th May 19, 7:15 PM
    Yes, it's a standard template but you can always change the bit about PDT machines to 'phone app' as it's the same sort of thing about payments.

    Doesn't actually matter and you are not doing the appeal in May anyway.

    Don't look at the £60 'discount' rubbish and get twitchy abut 14 days. The NEWBIES thread FAQS does tell everyone this. Complaint FIRST.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Martinez83
    • By Martinez83 17th May 19, 4:57 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinez83
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 4:57 AM
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 4:57 AM
    Complaint done - spoken to assistant manager who said that she will be more than happy to help but unlikely they will budge...

    I guess it will go down to the appeal then....
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 17th May 19, 7:33 AM
    • 13,039 Posts
    • 13,360 Thanks
    The Deep
    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams and will fail in court so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Martinez83
    • By Martinez83 18th May 19, 6:05 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinez83
    Since you are so helpful - quick advice request. When writting to the restaurant with complaint - do I still maintain driver/keeper approach or can I use my partner, us, me etc.? It will be hard to tell them that we are their frequent cuatomers without proper description but simultaneously I am concerned that they may forward the email to ecp which would then mess up with the appeal.

    And what about MP contact? Can I use our
    personals here?

    Finally - is there a way to find out who the actual landowner is?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th May 19, 8:55 AM
    • 23,382 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    They shouldn’t forward it to ECP as GDPR and the DPA are likely to be breached.

    Just use the royal ‘we’, or ‘the family’. I’d avoid using ‘the driver’ as to me it sounds too wooden in a letter asking for some help (and a bit like you’re trying to hide something).

    I’m sure you can get the letter to flow naturally without ever identifying the driver.

    All that said, ECP NtKs are now PoFA compliant, so they can legitimately pursue the keeper if they don’t have the identity of the driver. The good news is (at the time of writing’, ECP have never sued any parking charge through the courts. They do, of course, have 6 years in which to do so.

    Write to your own MP and ask him to copy to the MP covering the location. Or just email both MPs.

    You can phone the local council and ask which organisation pays the non domestic rates on the car park - that should point you towards the landowners.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 18-05-2019 at 8:57 AM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 18th May 19, 10:07 AM
    • 558 Posts
    • 1,051 Thanks
    MistyZ
    When writting to the restaurant with complaint - do I still maintain driver/keeper approach or can I use my partner, us, me etc.? It will be hard to tell them that we are their frequent cuatomers without proper description but simultaneously I am concerned that they may forward the email to ecp which would then mess up with the appeal.

    And what about MP contact? Can I use our
    personals here?

    Finally - is there a way to find out who the actual landowner is?
    Originally posted by Martinez83
    The PPC know who the Registered Keeper is so even if you draft the email / letter to restaurant, it should be from the RK of the car that got the invoice.

    I know the phrasing can be tricky. How about 'I often visit the restaurant with family and friends' if that is the case. Then having stated that just continue with 'we' as in 'we visited the restaurant on x day'.

    To be honest even if the pronouns end up sounding a bit peculiar it doesn't matter much. What you want is to emphasise repeat custom, enjoyment and appreciation of the restaurant, indignation about receiving a PCN and then to firmly but politely insist that they cancel it.

    Communication to MP should also be from RK.

    May also be worth asking neighbouring businesses who landowner is, assuming the car park 'serves' them as well.
    Last edited by MistyZ; 18-05-2019 at 10:11 AM.
    • Martinez83
    • By Martinez83 19th May 19, 8:15 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinez83
    A quick question - what happens with PCN if the driver is from outside the country?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 19th May 19, 9:00 AM
    • 23,382 Posts
    • 37,255 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    A quick question - what happens with PCN if the driver is from outside the country?
    Originally posted by Martinez83
    When the registered keeper receives the NtK, they can transfer liability to the actual driver whose address is xxx xxx Timbuktu.

    The driver also writes to the PPC to confirm they were driving and invite them to serve any further documents on them in Timbuktu. Send some kind of proof (like a utility bill to confirm their address) Thereafter, he/she ignores anything they might be daft enough to send.

    But you only do this if the driver is genuinely living abroad long term.

    Fiona Onasanya
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Martinez83
    • By Martinez83 20th May 19, 12:13 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinez83
    Quick update - formal complaint to restaurant done - outcome - appeal from them failed.

    We will be now escalating it to their HQ and see if they can help - if the result is the same, we will be properly appealing to ECP.

    Quick question - how much can MP help here? Or is it just to simply draw their attention to the problem?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th May 19, 2:09 PM
    • 72,078 Posts
    • 84,429 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Some MPs will write to the parking firm and object.

    Even if they won't, at least it sows that seed in their mind that private parking charges are a scam, and they might then be more interested in the nitty gritty of the Parking (CoP) Act as the new CoP is ironed out with consultation.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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