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  • FIRST POST
    • Jeden
    • By Jeden 16th May 19, 11:34 AM
    • 52Posts
    • 19Thanks
    Jeden
    Letter Of Claim BW Legal
    • #1
    • 16th May 19, 11:34 AM
    Letter Of Claim BW Legal 16th May 19 at 11:34 AM
    Hi all.

    I have recently received a letter of claim at work for my company vehicle claiming I owe £160.00 for a parking contravention dating back to 2015 on behalf of Premier Parking LTD.

    I need to add that i previously had one letter relating to this from the aptly named Wright Hassal however emailed asking for evidence which was not responded to.

    I now have a this Notice of Claim arrive almost 4 years later asking me to fill out my personal financial situation (which i wont of course).

    I plan to defend this vigorously and have sent the following robust response to BW legal via email requesting all evidence. (taken from another thread and adapted to suit)

    Thank you for your letter dated 29th of April 2019

    When your client's debt collectors first started contacting me, I asked them for details of the basis upon which money was being claimed, including all photographs taken of the vehicle at the relevant time plus photographs of the signage. No such evidence has been provided.

    You have now sent a Letter of Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and, again, fails to provide the photographic evidence which I requested back in 2015. It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.
    Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

    Your letter clearly breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.
    Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction.
    Your letter also states that an income/expenditure form requires completing. This is totally misleading, as it only relates to anyone who admits the debt.
    I am fully aware that BW Legal were 'named and shamed' in a Parliamentary debate, where MPs unanimously clamoured to expose rogue parking firms and their 'cosy relationship' with firms like BW Legal making a mint from their clients' rogue ticketing and unfair fining. Poor signage, unreasonable terms, exorbitant fines and aggressive demands for payment have no place in the 21st century and companies like yourself are an absolute disgrace.!!!


    I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    1. an explanation of the cause of action
    2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. what the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
    5. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
    6. a copy of any alleged contract with the driver
    7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
    8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.

    I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) !!!8211; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information in 2015, yet your client has yet to provide it.

    Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.



    I have started looking into where the violation happened and have come across these!

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g186400-d3948808-Reviews-The_Breakfast_Junction-Warwick_Warwickshire_England.html

    https://www.google.com/search?q=the+breakfast+junction+cafe+warwick&rlz=1 C1CHBF_en-GBGB785GB785&oq=the+bre&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j0j69i59 j69i57j69i61j69i60.1167j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    As you can see in the google reviews and tripadvisor reviews it seems the cafe that was operating there were issuing tickets to their own paying customers. The cafe is now closed down (surprise surprise) and all signage relating to parking restrictions no longer appears to be there, so I am wondering how I would go about defending this fully without knowing exact locations of the signs and wording contained on them as well as font size ANPR cameras etc?

    I think it's quite clear the cafe was operating some sort of scam aided by Premier Park Limited and I am determined to not let them get away with it, I just hope the courts see it the same way!
    Last edited by Jeden; 16-05-2019 at 8:13 PM.
Page 2
    • Jeden
    • By Jeden 16th May 19, 6:57 PM
    • 52 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Jeden
    Just checked the historic images on my computer and everything is so blurry from the road that I canít make out the writing that may be there.

    Unfortunately the date on the letter says October 2015 but there are only images for July 2015 which has no signage there whatsoever and September 2016 when there is some parking signs (nothing with premier park logos though from what I can make out).

    I certainly canít see any payment machines or otherwise and canít even see where on earth the so called ANPR camera they claim they have me on is located.
    Last edited by Jeden; 16-05-2019 at 8:14 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th May 19, 7:48 PM
    • 72,085 Posts
    • 84,433 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Please edit all posts where you've called them 'PREMIER PARKING LTD'. I've now seen it more than once (please edit all instances) and you are confusing us all about whether this is:

    Premier Park (I reckon so), but since you used the wrong name twice, it could be:

    Premier Parking Solutions Ltd, (an IPC firm) or

    Premier Parking (London) Ltd (a smaller BPA member)

    Unfortunately the date on the letter says October 2015 but there are only images for July 2015 which has no signage there whatsoever and September 2016 when there is some parking signs (nothing with premier parking’s logos though from what I can make out).
    Why is that unfortunate? It's great!

    That gives you evidence that the regime was either not fully signed in October, or was new just weeks before. Now, research what the 2015 old BPA CoP said about new parking restrictions needing extra signs!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Jeden
    • By Jeden 16th May 19, 8:16 PM
    • 52 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Jeden
    I have just checked the letters and It is Premier Park. I have amended the posts as requested.

    I will have a look around regarding the extra signage.

    Thanks again!
    • Jeden
    • By Jeden 17th May 19, 8:02 AM
    • 52 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Jeden
    Our operations director has written the letter and I will post it first class recorded today.

    Shall I get her to email it to them also to ensure there can be no slip ups before the 1st of June?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th May 19, 8:10 AM
    • 22,461 Posts
    • 28,477 Thanks
    Redx
    no such thing as FIRST CLASS RECORDED, its called SIGNED FOR now

    in any case, we do NOT recommend anyone send a PPC a letter by any recorded method, because a lot of them use PO BOXES with nobody able to sign for the company, plus in any case they could refuse to sign if anyone was present, meaning you only have proof of a non-delivery (not what you want)

    send it with a free PROOF OF POSTING certificate from the P O Counter and attach said receipt to a copy of the actual letter and keep it safe, that is all that is required in law and is cheaper too (it is deemed "delivered" 2 days later)

    yes an email can also be sent , with an attachment of the letter, stating that a mailed copy is in the post as well

    but do not send "recorded"
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Jeden
    • By Jeden 17th May 19, 8:27 AM
    • 52 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Jeden
    I meant proof of posting sorry.

    I know not to send it signed for etc.

    I'll get her to send an email copy of the letter also.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th May 19, 8:30 AM
    • 22,461 Posts
    • 28,477 Thanks
    Redx
    excellent

    bear in mind that accuracy could win this, so its important not to be doing something that should not be done , nor say something that should not be said

    in this game , subterfuge and "smarts" may well triumph, but going "off piste" can cost you dear, hence why we are so pedantic in our replies

    better to be right first time , every time , than be wrong and trying to rescue the dogs breakfast after its been eaten by the dog

    good luck
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Jeden
    • By Jeden 17th May 19, 8:52 AM
    • 52 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Jeden
    I don't mind the pedantic nature of the replies. I am grateful for the help.

    Slightly annoyed at myself for sending the initial reply direct from me, however glad to be back on track and will follow your instructions from here on in.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 19, 10:41 AM
    • 72,085 Posts
    • 84,433 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The important thing is the company extracts themselves from this, so emailing and posting a transfer of liability letter (and keeping proof of both, in the form of a printed out or saved copy of the 'sent' email, plus certificate of posting receipt stapled to a printed copy of the letter) is vital.

    They should also attach some sort of proof of you being the lessee, so is there a statement or lessee agreement you signed ages ago? Include that with the letter.

    Then, you will receive something in your name as hirer/lessee and can defend this yourself, with our help. I bet the PPC don't go back to the stage they should, and send you a Notice to Hirer. And you can then use that against them when defending!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Jeden
    • By Jeden 17th May 19, 7:02 PM
    • 52 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Jeden
    I have my signed work contract which sets out the details of the company vehicle if required.

    I have posted the letter out today and printed and saved a copy and put the receipt on it along with the other correspondence they have sent me.

    Once again I canít express how grateful I am to you guys for taking the time to help. Not only me but everybody else who falls foul to these abhorrent people.

    I will keep you updated as soon as I receive something through the post or anything else they send.
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