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  • FIRST POST
    • ABmum
    • By ABmum 16th May 19, 7:48 AM
    • 8Posts
    • 1Thanks
    ABmum
    Britannia Parking Ticket BWLegal threaten action - what next?
    • #1
    • 16th May 19, 7:48 AM
    Britannia Parking Ticket BWLegal threaten action - what next? 16th May 19 at 7:48 AM
    Hi everyone,

    I will firstly apologise for starting a new thread as many of you have suggested not to, but I can't seem to detangle all the existing threads and relate them to my own situation. I have tried, and taken some steps in resolving the matter, but I don't really know where to go next or what I have done so far has achieved!

    I received a parking ticket from Britannia, it was not me driving the car (as I understand it I should not disclose who was driving the car). After looking on the forums, I (perhaps too quickly) ignored the parking ticket given the number of posts saying Britannia couldn't enforce the tickets. They also addressed me by my maiden name so it didn't seem legit (although upon thinking about it I can't imagine I have updated my ownership of the car into my married name, so this is perhaps the information the DVLA would hold? Though my driving license is in my married name of course).

    Anyway, they sent the 'final reminder' saying the 14 day period for a reduced fine was over and I should pay immediately to avoid court action. Again, I ignored the ticket. I have now received the LBC from BWLegal telling me to pay the £160 fine or face them starting court proceedings. This worried me so I did more research and found various suggestions.

    As a result I have sent an email to BWLegal asking them to put the case on hold as I had requested an SAR from Britannia. Britannia have come back to me with the SAR but I don't really know what I should now do with that information. It shows they have photographs of my car in the car park, it was dark so you can't see a person, just the number plate, but as I said I was not driving. It also shows the PCNs I was sent. Where do I go now?

    I have written an email of complaint to the landowner as some people have suggested. Should I do what perhaps I should have done in the first place and write a letter to Britannia transferring liability, but telling them I am not obliged to disclose who was driving?

    I am getting to the point where I am wondering whether I should just be paying the fine to avoid court action as I don't know where I stand. I obviously can't prove I wasn't driving the car. Does anyone know where I stand?

    Thanks in advance.
Page 1
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 16th May 19, 7:54 AM
    • 13,115 Posts
    • 13,447 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #2
    • 16th May 19, 7:54 AM
    • #2
    • 16th May 19, 7:54 AM
    Have you read the stickies, they tell you what comes next.

    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams and will fail in court so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th May 19, 8:15 AM
    • 23,429 Posts
    • 37,356 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #3
    • 16th May 19, 8:15 AM
    • #3
    • 16th May 19, 8:15 AM
    I can't imagine I have updated my ownership of the car into my married name, so this is perhaps the information the DVLA would hold? Though my driving license is in my married name of course).
    These are two quite independent elements. Each needs to be updated separately. If you changed address on marriage, it is vital that the car’s V5C (logbook) is updated urgently.

    Turning to your PCN - please read the following thread. Your can learn how to bat off their advances and work to get them to capitulate.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5999048

    BRITANNIA or NCP or PREMIER PARKING or TPS / BW LEGAL CASES

    As you will see from the first few pages of the forum, there is an onslaught by BWL on behalf of Britannia, NCP, Premier Parking or TPS (and a few other hitherto court-shy PPCs) which is being conducted on an industrial scale - roboclaims.

    You are caught in a one-way traffic flow where you must fight or pay - there is no longer a safe 'do nothing' option.

    1. Pay now, it costs you exactly what they are currently demanding.
    2. Ignore it, a 'judgment in default' will inevitably follow for at least what they want - maybe with even more costs added; continue to ignore that, you're getting a CCJ with credit crushing consequences for 6 years.
    3. Defend, yet lose in court, the cost award is likely to be noticeably less than their current demand ~£175.
    4. Defend, and win in court, you owe them nothing and you could claim up to £95 for half a day's pay/loss of annual leave, plus travel costs @45p per mile, plus your parking cost for the day.

    Your least costly option has to be 3, with hopefully a win as per 4.

    But BWL/and the PPC cannot physically take everyone to court, and there is evidence to show that with a well constructed defence, BWL can come along with a reduced 'offer to settle', which if refused, becomes a discontinuation. We can't give you guarantees on that, but as you have little choice other than to defend (if you don't want to pay), you need to give this your very best shot.

    Whether you have a good defendable case to argue, you will need to read other similar cases at the defence (or beyond) stage and learn from those.

    This next thread is an important one in relation to Britannia (only). Britannia are issuing claims under the name of a different legal entity to the one issuing the PCN - and this can be extremely useful in any defence preparation.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5915842

    ROBOCLAIMS - HOW BWL OPERATE

    You might find it useful to understand how BWL operate - as I have surmised from the hundreds of different threads I've read involving BWL.

    Other than the auto acknowledgements and template letters, you will get nothing sensible from BWL - they are dealing with literally hundreds of thousands of unpaid parking charges and are spewing out various threatening letters, using a conveyor belt approach to go through a computer controlled process towards a LBC, and a MCOL Claim - and it is really only at the final stages, as a court hearing becomes a possibility, that there's any real human intervention.

    You need to understand that you're not dealing with an old fashioned firm of solicitors, just progressing from a quill and ink operation, BWL are industrial harvesters of debt, using the equivalent of massive farming machinery to do their work. This is what their website tells you:
    A multi-award winning law firm specialising in volume collections, across both regulated and unregulated sectors, who are dual regulated through the FCA and SRA.

    We employ around 265 people at our Leeds based office which in turn makes us the largest privately owned debt collection law firm in the UK.
    Of that number, BWL employ only 6 qualified solicitors.

    http://solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk/organisation/people/532848/bw-legal-services-ltd?Solicitors=True
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 16-05-2019 at 8:25 AM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • ABmum
    • By ABmum 16th May 19, 12:36 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ABmum
    • #4
    • 16th May 19, 12:36 PM
    • #4
    • 16th May 19, 12:36 PM
    Thank you for the responses so far...

    You say I have those four options. I don't particularly want to pay now, the £160 is extortionate especially given I wasn't driving. Can I stilmd defend before being taken to court? I don't think I've actually been 'summoned'. I don't have the income forms other people on the forum has spoken about. It may just be the first debt collector letter. It says 'we have been instructed by Britannia for the above PCN'.

    It also says 'if you fail to make payment or provide reasons for non-payment within the specified time frame we will seek our clients instructions to commence legal proceedings' etc...

    I have asked them to put on hold whilst I obtained the SAR. Have I done everything in the wrong order and therefore scuppered my chances? Should I go back to BWLegal now and say I'm not paying because I wasnt driving?

    If I'm honest I can't cope with the aggravation of being taken to caught. I am 5 weeks off a due date for my second pregnancy so dealing with all this is the last thing I need!!

    What should I actually do? I read somewhere that someone offered the initial cost (£60) in my case but it got rejected. Should I do that? Or does that make it look like I'm admitting fault (when I wasn't driving)...

    Apologies but I just don't understand all of this enough to know where I should go next...
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th May 19, 12:55 PM
    • 23,429 Posts
    • 37,356 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 16th May 19, 12:55 PM
    • #5
    • 16th May 19, 12:55 PM
    I have now received the LBC from BWLegal
    I don't have the income forms other people on the forum has spoken about. It may just be the first debt collector letter. It says 'we have been instructed by Britannia for the above PCN'.
    So it not a LBC then. That will come in due course as a part of the robo process, so you need to be ready for that.
    Apologies but I just don't understand all of this enough to know where I should go next...
    No one who comes here understands all (even any) of this enough to know where to go next. We even have a law student who has come here today seemingly devoid of any idea. So you’re far from alone. Even regulars knew none of this when they first came here, so we’ve had to learn.

    When you’re lost it’s best to reach for a map, and the ‘map’ you need has been helpfully put together by regulars for you to follow via the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2. Have a read of that so you know the stages you will go through.
    I read somewhere that someone offered the initial cost (£60) in my case but it got rejected. Should I do that? Or does that make it look like I'm admitting fault (when I wasn't driving)...
    These offers (in desperation) are rarely accepted, they will know they now have you dangling on their hook, and smell the likelihood of you coughing up even more if they keep hassling and pressurising.

    If you do want to make an offer, mark your letter ‘WITHOUT PREJUDICE, SAVE AS TO COSTS’ which means they cannot show this to a Judge (as some tacit admission of liability) until after the case has concluded - if they win.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th May 19, 12:56 PM
    • 72,324 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 16th May 19, 12:56 PM
    • #6
    • 16th May 19, 12:56 PM
    Can I still defend before being taken to court? I don't think I've actually been 'summoned'.
    You will never be summonsed, as this is not a criminal matter. You WILL get a claim form this Summer, but these are defendable.

    Have I done everything in the wrong order and therefore scuppered my chances?
    Not at all, asking Britannia for a SAR is the perfect response. DO NOT MAKE AN OFFER, IT IS POINTLESS AND SMACKS AS DESPERATION FROM A WEAK VICTIM.

    When you get the SAR back, check whether their NTK had the POFA wording on it (para 8 or 9 (2)f of Schedule 4). Britannia changed to POFA versions sometime in 2017 I think.

    I really hope you read and digested all the links & info from Umkomaas. There is so much to include in the defence when the claim arrives.

    If BW Legal reply refusing to restrict data processing, reply telling them you are seeking debt advice and that you were not driving, so they must give you 30 days, and must then reply explaining whether their client's NTK was POFA compliant or not, after scrutinising it, and not misleading you as to potential liability.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • ABmum
    • By ABmum 17th May 19, 9:25 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ABmum
    • #7
    • 17th May 19, 9:25 AM
    • #7
    • 17th May 19, 9:25 AM
    When you get the SAR back, check whether their NTK had the POFA wording on it (para 8 or 9 (2)f of Schedule 4). Britannia changed to POFA versions sometime in 2017 I think.
    Is this the wording you are talking about?:

    (f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
    (i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
    (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

    If so, I have had my SAR back and the NTK says:

    'Failure to pay the full amount of this notice within 29 days may result in the proceeding of debt recovery action and/or issuing court proceedings against you. Additional costs will be incurred'.

    I'm guessing that is in line with POFA then? However:

    POFA states: 'The notice must '(c)describe the parking charges due from the driver as at the end of that period' and '(d)specify the total amount of those parking charges that are unpaid', but the NTK doesn't outline the charges that were supposed to be paid on the contravention date. Is that what this statement is referring to?

    Similarly:

    POFA states 'The notice must (e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—
    (i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or
    (ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;'

    The wording in the NTK is 'If you were the driver at the time of the event you are required to pay the parking charge. Please see the reverse for details of how to pay or transfer liability'.

    So whilst they have allowed the option to transfer liability, they haven't stated that they don't know the name or address of the driver, or invited me to pay for the unpaid parking charges. Am I correct in assuming that the 'unpaid parking charges' in the POFA wording is the fee that should have been paid on the contravention date?

    Thanks so much for your help so far.

    I really hope you read and digested all the links & info from Umkomaas. There is so much to include in the defence when the claim arrives.
    I have read some of it, mainly the story from the member who stated how she was able to get them to withdraw before going to court, but her situation seems different to mine so I'm not sure how I can learn from it other than persistence pays. I am planning on trawling through everything else as and when I have the time. I have read the NEWBIES sticky thread a number of times and again just can't quite detangle things enough to relate it to my situation. For most of the threads I have read it's mostly people with a genuine appeal (rather than 'I was not driving and therefore don't want to pay'.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 19, 11:15 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 17th May 19, 11:15 AM
    • #8
    • 17th May 19, 11:15 AM
    You haven't mentioned Umkomaas' other link to the recent court win...please can you re-read that? I did point you back to read again, the things he posted for you.

    Is this the wording you are talking about?:

    (f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
    (i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
    (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;
    Yes, that warning - telling the keeper THEY will become liable, and setting it out with those words above and that deadline - is mandatory.

    If so, I have had my SAR back and the NTK says:

    'Failure to pay the full amount of this notice within 29 days may result in the proceeding of debt recovery action and/or issuing court proceedings against you. Additional costs will be incurred'.

    I'm guessing that is in line with POFA then?
    Are you serious or joking?! Please re-read what you typed. You've effectively said:

    ''I can see the law says 'A' and this company has put 'Z', so I assume that's OK?''

    No, it's not, come on! I even told you they used 'non POFA' PCNs in 2017 so I am guessing this is a fairly old NTK. Obviously it is incapable of binding a keeper!

    For most of the threads I have read it's mostly people with a genuine appeal (rather than 'I was not driving and therefore don't want to pay'.
    Not at all. And if you'd looked at the NTK and evaluated & compared the wording properly and come to the obvious conclusion that it was NON POFA, you'd know why that is a valid defence, plus the REALLY IMPORTANT one used last week in the Britannia thread linked by Umkomaas. Both winning defence points.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 17-05-2019 at 11:21 AM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • ABmum
    • By ABmum 17th May 19, 12:52 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ABmum
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 12:52 PM
    • #9
    • 17th May 19, 12:52 PM
    Are you serious or joking?! Please re-read what you typed. You've effectively said:
    I was serious, I do apologise. So you're saying the exact wording is supposed to be used in the NTK? I had read it that because they have told me that if I don't respond within 29 days (technically giving me an extra day), then I (as the keeper) would be liable, then that is compliant. Or is it because they haven't given me the option to pay the 'amount of the unpaid parking charges' (is the unpaid parking charges the amount that should have been paid on the date of the contravention, rather than the fine?)?

    No, it's not, come on! I even told you they used 'non POFA' PCNs in 2017 so I am guessing this is a fairly old NTK. Obviously it is incapable of binding a keeper!
    This is an NTK for a contravention in March this year!

    plus the REALLY IMPORTANT one used last week in the Britannia thread linked by Umkomaas. Both winning defence points.
    I will look back through the links and see what you are referring to. Thanks.
    • ABmum
    • By ABmum 17th May 19, 1:16 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ABmum
    I have started to look through the thread I think you are talking about and it only very briefly talks about defense if you are not the driver. I am getting quite confused as a newbie!

    Who should I be appealing to at this point? Should I be going back to BWLegal about the non-compliance with POFA, or should I be going directly to Britannia?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th May 19, 1:22 PM
    • 22,461 Posts
    • 28,483 Thanks
    Redx

    Who should I be appealing to at this point?

    Should I be going back to BWLegal about the non-compliance with POFA, or should I be going directly to Britannia?
    Originally posted by ABmum
    the time for any appeal has long since passed , usually you get 28 days to appeal to BRIT following a postal NTK, so as this is more than 8 weeks old , no chance , sorry (you do not get unlimited time to do this , think of it like boarding an aircraft, if you miss the departure at the boarding gate, it sets off on its path without you , you dont get extra time to board once check in has closed)

    at this stage you are in the pre-court impasse stage

    any contact is usually a SAR by email to the DPO at BRIT to get all their data

    B W LEGAL are employed by BRIT to chase up the money, plus if BRIT tell B W LEGAL to issue a court claim, they will , regardless

    it was BRIT who MAY HAVE failed POFA , not B W LEGAL

    YOU YOURSELF CHOSE THE PATH OF IGNORING THE POSTAL NOTICES (TWICE) SO YOU YOURSELF HAVE CHOSEN THE "TAKE ME TO COURT" ROUTE, BY DEFAULT

    only a landowner cancellation can stop this juggernaut , or a judge in court


    the current £160 is made up of the original £100 default parking charge for breaking the rules, plus £60 to B W LEGAL as debt collector fees = £160 in total
    Last edited by Redx; 17-05-2019 at 1:33 PM. Reason: extra info
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • ABmum
    • By ABmum 17th May 19, 1:34 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ABmum
    only a landowner cancellation can stop this juggernaut , or a judge in court
    Thank you for confirming. I have emailed the landowner (or the pub that the car park is on, is this the same thing, I'm not sure?) complaining, but haven't heard anything back.

    any contact is usually a SAR by email to the DPO at BRIT to get all their data
    I sent the SAR and they sent me information regarding the contravention, i.e. where it was, time etc, pictures of what is apparently my car, although all you can see is the headlights and then a zoomed in imagine of my license plate, the final reminder (sent after the discounted period), and the original NTK.

    Are you suggesting that now I should just wait for the LBC to come through? BWLegal have been advised to put the case on hold, and I haven't gone back to Britannia since they sent me the SAR.

    What should I be doing next?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th May 19, 1:45 PM
    • 22,461 Posts
    • 28,483 Thanks
    Redx
    the pub or pub chain may or may not own the land , only the Land Registry can tell you about land ownership, the point being that "somebody" has engaged BRIT to "police" the car park , many pubs do nowadays , so you would be complaining (not appealing) to that person or entity or firm

    the issue you have about pictures is a common misconception, what you are seeing is ANPR camera pics, not passport quality pics, so they are expected to show the VRM details of the vehicle in order for those details to be retrieved from the DVLA (police and councils use them daily, its common knowledge)

    the SAR asks for all pics and all docs , so the idea is that any "normal" pics may indicate that it is NOT your vehicle , might be the same make and model but may not have the "baby onboard" sticker in the window for example , could be an ANPR misread , could be all kinds of issues

    either it is your vehicle , or it isnt, they say it is , so you are getting all their pics so you can decide if it was or not

    you must decide what to do, but because you chose the IGNORE PATH , you also chose by default the "take me to court" route , instead of appealing in good time and going to POPLA instead

    eventually the LBC should come , followed by the N1 court case form , BRIT have 6 years to take this to your local county court, that is what you chose when you decided to IGNORE the postal notices

    I am just spelling it out, so you know what your actions (or inactions) have led to

    what you do now is your choice , but BRIT and B W LEGAL are pursuing thousands of these claims at the moment, you are just another statistic, as Umkomaas pointed out earlier in this thread

    it is what it is , so learn from it (inaction and tardiness lead to hassle like this)

    you have done the SAR and done the pub complaint , what makes you think there is anything left to do ? (there isnt because YOU are not in control of this and werent ever since the date that the initial appeal window deadline passed)

    they are called roboclaims for a reason


    check the NTK against POFA for wording and timescales and see if BRIT have complied with POFA or not (as mentioned earlier) - if this was issued in March 2019 then its a recent one and they "may" have changed the INITIAL NTK in order to comply ( NOT THE REMINDER), plus issued it in good time as well , I dont know but You CAN AND SHOULD CHECK - if they have followed POFA , then you as keeper are liable , even if you were sat at home watching soaps

    yest for some reason you seem to think its not your problem if you were not the driver , yet parliament made it your problem 6.5 years ago (if BRIT have followed the law on this - ie:- followed POFA )

    ps:- if you havent sorted out the V5C , that could result in a DVLA fine of up to £1000 , so as Umkomaas pointed out , get it sorted out asap, dont wait for a fine

    all V5C docs and all driving licences have this clause, update asap or face a fine of up to £1000 for each and every offence
    Last edited by Redx; 17-05-2019 at 2:05 PM. Reason: V5C update info added as a warning to the OP
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 19, 7:10 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    This is an NTK for a contravention in March this year!
    In that case I guess you were copying the wrong words, looking in the wrong place on the NTK, surely.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • ABmum
    • By ABmum 18th May 19, 11:35 AM
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    • 1 Thanks
    ABmum
    Those are the exact words on the NTK.

    I received a letter from BWLegal today saying they have refused to restrict data processing on my account and a separate letter with the letter before court included.

    I feel like I don't have a claim and I am better off just paying the fine to avoid going to court... given my circumstances I'm quite stressed out about the idea of going to court as I still haven't the foggiest how to defend myself!!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th May 19, 12:28 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    It's not a fine.

    No-one would pay this, to avoid going to court and paying NOTHING if you win, or less than the sum BW Legal are demanding, if you lose. Why would ANYONE pay £250, to avoid paying nothing (probably) or about £150 if you happened to be unlucky?

    I know those are the words in the NTK, I don't doubt it. But I'm simply saying are you sure you are quoting the right bit about the 28 or 29 days as that doesn't sound like you've quoted the right paragraph. i did say that.

    Please look again, you know the words you are looking for; you found them in the POFA.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • ABmum
    • By ABmum 19th May 19, 7:56 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ABmum
    I have just read the NTK again. At the top it says payment to be made within 28 days of issue, mentions the discount and the discount period. It then lists the contravention date and details. The underneath the big 'please do not ignore this notice' in the body of the NTK it states that the signage at the car park throughout states that it is managed by Britannia, the conditions must be complied with and motorists parking there agreeing to be bound by the terms.

    Next line - as the motorist has not contravened with the terms and conditions the notice has been issued.

    Next line - 'failure to pay the full amount of this notice within 29 days may result in the proceeding of debt recovery action and/or issuing court proceedings against you. Additional costs will be incurred.'

    Next line - 'If you were the driver at the time of the event you are required to pay the parking charge'.

    Next line - 'please see reverse for details of how to transfer liability'.

    Next page are pics of my licence reg.

    Then there's payment information. Appeals information. Data protection act information. Transfer of liability slip and payment slip.

    Nowhere on the NTK or the 'final reminder' following does it say the exact words that I found in the POFA.

    So that means it's not compliant? Would a court not see me as not appealing within time and not transferring liability as me now being liable and therefore having to pay up?

    Also, the costs listed on the LBC amounted to £235 ish, whereas it currently stands at £160...

    Still appreciate your help and guidance so thank you.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 19th May 19, 8:48 AM
    • 23,429 Posts
    • 37,356 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    So that means it's not compliant? Would a court not see me as not appealing within time and not transferring liability as me now being liable and therefore having to pay up?
    We can't second guess what any court would decide on any particular day. They may well go down the route you are viewing from the wrong end of the telescope. That's why you have to be fully on top of the game in relation to PoFA so you can argue it to your advantage in front of any legal rep from the PPC and the Judge.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th May 19, 7:01 PM
    • 72,324 Posts
    • 84,631 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    So that means it's not compliant?
    It certainly sounds like they sent a non-POFA PCN for some reason. That's good!

    So I Googled Britannia PCN and searched the first 'image' results.

    Here's a POFA one:

    http://imagizer-cv.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/921/Lkkag6.jpg

    and here is a non POFA one from early 2017:

    http://i64.tinypic.com/e5i4c6.jpg

    So yours looks more like the second one then, with nothing about keeper liability?!

    Would a court not see me as not appealing within time and not transferring liability as me now being liable and therefore having to pay up?
    No, you have no obligation to appeal, and no obligation to name the driver/transfer liability to inflict this stress on the driver. You will NOT be judged on that.

    Read barrister and parking law expert, erstwhile POPLA & PATAS Adjudicator Henry Greenslade's words about 'Understanding Keeper Liability', published in the POPLA Annual Report 2015.

    You will be using his words and the POFA in defence, and as part of your later evidence with your WS before the hearing, and it will help you with confidence on this point.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
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    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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