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  • FIRST POST
    • Dakta
    • By Dakta 15th May 19, 6:41 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Dakta
    Responses (or lack of)
    • #1
    • 15th May 19, 6:41 PM
    Responses (or lack of) 15th May 19 at 6:41 PM
    Hi Fellas, posting this for a bit of fun and to get some opinions really when it comes to jobseeking.

    I'm self employed, but I do occasionally seek work due to pits and drops in workload, and I've been thinking of a bit of a career change so took some courses and have been looking for an etrypoint into a new field potentially.

    But one thing I've noticed, not recently but over the years is just how few companies ever actually get back to you.

    It's a very competitive environment, so I was expecting like a heap of 'sorry we think you are unsuitable' generic letters, is keeping prospective clients up to date not fashionable anymore?

    At first I thought I was tetchy, but then looked at the statistics, I've nearly 60 applications 'still potentially open' from when i first started keeping saved copies of my cv's for each app starting from a few years ago, I have 2 (two) roles which I got a response for, one was a generic no thank you, the other response I got the job.

    I'm just thinking it's a bit disheartening, because as a potential applicant you do a lot of homework on a company, review your cv, customise it, prepare a fresh cover letter and to be frank, you invest some time in offering a company what might be some talent that not only gets you a wage but on the opposite hand should also really help the business go forward, it very much is a mutual gain, or it should be. But your time is invested and you've put something into it.

    Not saying you should get it, but surely some knowledge of whether you got it? It seems a bit of an epidemic of silence.

    Anyway I'm just posting this for fun really, to see if I'm the only one and see what people think. Maybe my CV is just awful and nobody dares tell me

    But on the other hand, their ability to be professional with me as an applicant is no different than as a potential customer, so those that don't communicate do go down in my estimation a bit.

    thoughts on a postcard?
Page 1
    • Neil Jones
    • By Neil Jones 15th May 19, 6:46 PM
    • 2,073 Posts
    • 1,451 Thanks
    Neil Jones
    • #2
    • 15th May 19, 6:46 PM
    • #2
    • 15th May 19, 6:46 PM
    If the positions are agency work its usually because they get swamped with applications for vacancies and its far quicker and cheaper for them to just respond to the successful ones. A lot of the applications can be because of the pressure of the jobcentre to apply a scattergun approach and hope something hits, and some of those won't be suitable.

    As a general rule if there is no reply after, say, three weeks its usually safe to assume you weren't successful.
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 15th May 19, 7:18 PM
    • 3,557 Posts
    • 1,887 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • #3
    • 15th May 19, 7:18 PM
    • #3
    • 15th May 19, 7:18 PM
    It's a mixed hand.

    While it is said there is a job boom, a recruitment agent told me today not enough people had applied to a Telesales job to give their client choice! The company want to continue advertise and seeing new interview candidates well over a month on after initially advertising. (I was getting a bit fed up of the agent despite knowing they had already set one interview up and then knowingly trying to send me to others, they could not see the problem) if recruitment agents are now doing mass applications and this is acceptable then I actually deeply think things are changing.

    When recruiters/companies take so long to appointment and mule it over, I guess they don't have the risk of even replying to anyone.
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • elsien
    • By elsien 15th May 19, 7:26 PM
    • 18,991 Posts
    • 48,139 Thanks
    elsien
    • #4
    • 15th May 19, 7:26 PM
    • #4
    • 15th May 19, 7:26 PM
    It's now normal not to send thanks but no thanks letters.

    In my last company we stopped sending them because a fair few applicants were clearly just making up the numbers of applications to keep DWP happy and had no interest in the job whatsoever.

    If you then add in the people who accept interviews but don't bother turning up or letting you know and those that ask you to rearrange the date but still don't turn up, I got quite cynical after a while.

    On the other hand, when I was job hunting and not getting a response it didn't bother me so much because I'd seen it from both sides. Just how things seem to be nowadays.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Wyndham
    • By Wyndham 15th May 19, 7:26 PM
    • 2,092 Posts
    • 2,417 Thanks
    Wyndham
    • #5
    • 15th May 19, 7:26 PM
    • #5
    • 15th May 19, 7:26 PM
    Hi Fellas? Really?
    • Dakta
    • By Dakta 15th May 19, 7:30 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Dakta
    • #6
    • 15th May 19, 7:30 PM
    • #6
    • 15th May 19, 7:30 PM
    Thanks for the responses thus far.

    I'm lucky because I can work for myself, but looking back to before being self employed when I threw a lot of applications out there (I still casually search when workload is low) I can't actually beleive how little feedback you get,

    I think a lot of it does stem from agencies, obviously in some cases they are just their to fill positions and the pleasantries of dealing with people proper get pushed aside to 'getting the job done'.

    Looking at my own stats, it really must be quite bleak for people looking for a job and not even getting any kind of response even though they might have put tens of hours into it. I've been thinking of having another look about to see whats out there but you sort of know it's 20 hours you can throw down the drain for not a single acknowledgement. Bit poor really no individual to blame just society where peoples time isn't of value

    It's not always agencies or small key jobs though, i once applied to quite a high end job in the trasnport sector, I had to sit tests, a management assessment, medical and finally a major interview that one had to cross the country to get to. Not a problem but weeks went by and despite being apprehensive about pushing for an outcome I eventually chased it up to find i'd missed the opportunity but had 'done really well'

    The missed opportunity is obviously sore (or was at the time), but it's life. But you could have waited forever and that really does seem the norm these days.
    Last edited by Dakta; 15-05-2019 at 7:34 PM.
    • Dakta
    • By Dakta 15th May 19, 7:37 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Dakta
    • #7
    • 15th May 19, 7:37 PM
    • #7
    • 15th May 19, 7:37 PM
    It's now normal not to send thanks but no thanks letters.

    In my last company we stopped sending them because a fair few applicants were clearly just making up the numbers of applications to keep DWP happy and had no interest in the job whatsoever.

    If you then add in the people who accept interviews but don't bother turning up or letting you know and those that ask you to rearrange the date but still don't turn up, I got quite cynical after a while.

    On the other hand, when I was job hunting and not getting a response it didn't bother me so much because I'd seen it from both sides. Just how things seem to be nowadays.
    Originally posted by elsien
    Hi thanks for that post. Putting the shoe on the other foot it must be a bit of a put off when people don't show and you've given up time for an applicant. I can understand that and whether applicant or recruiter you would expect people to just communicate or whatnot.

    I know I'm talking very much tongue in cheek 'ideal world, never happen' but the scale of it is actually, on reflection quite large
    • jonnygee2
    • By jonnygee2 15th May 19, 7:48 PM
    • 1,253 Posts
    • 1,272 Thanks
    jonnygee2
    • #8
    • 15th May 19, 7:48 PM
    • #8
    • 15th May 19, 7:48 PM
    Problem is, when you start sending 'thanks but no thanks' emails, people start replying to them (can I have some feedback? Is it because of my Visa? What else is coming up? etc). You can end up with hundreds of concurrent conversations that take up all of your time. Not replying is safer.

    Appreciate that it's not great for external communication. Applicants are often also customers or work at related businesses. Tricky, but I still sympathise with those who choose the silence approach.
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 15th May 19, 7:56 PM
    • 5,787 Posts
    • 7,150 Thanks
    theoretica
    • #9
    • 15th May 19, 7:56 PM
    • #9
    • 15th May 19, 7:56 PM
    Problem is, when you start sending 'thanks but no thanks' emails, people start replying to them (can I have some feedback? Is it because of my Visa? What else is coming up? etc). You can end up with hundreds of concurrent conversations that take up all of your time. Not replying is safer.
    Originally posted by jonnygee2

    My work has an outgoing only email address it uses for such things.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • MovingForwards
    • By MovingForwards 15th May 19, 8:08 PM
    • 976 Posts
    • 1,169 Thanks
    MovingForwards
    It does get disheartening not getting a thanks but no thanks.

    Two roles I applied for directly, entered into email dialogue, discussing salary expectations etc, still continued to email me, then dropped off the face of the earth; I saw the latest one had readvertised the role. That I thought was rude.

    I'm finding agencies no longer say you haven't been picked for an interview, even those I get on really well with and are sole trader agencies!

    You just have to keep plugging away and wait for the fish to bite.
    • Dakta
    • By Dakta 15th May 19, 8:36 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Dakta
    Problem is, when you start sending 'thanks but no thanks' emails, people start replying to them (can I have some feedback? Is it because of my Visa? What else is coming up? etc). You can end up with hundreds of concurrent conversations that take up all of your time. Not replying is safer.

    Appreciate that it's not great for external communication. Applicants are often also customers or work at related businesses. Tricky, but I still sympathise with those who choose the silence approach.
    Originally posted by jonnygee2
    I read your post and it made a lot of sense, thanks

    I did re-read it though, and thought a lot of the questions in bold, actually don't seem that unreasonable. Surely a HR department, as a part of functioning as a HR department, be able to handle requests for feedback (ort if feedback is too much, how about just notification of a decision)?

    I totally agree with your core point the workload may be too much (depends on the company I guess) but I don't know if radio silence when it comes to role decisions is that productive, it puts the onus on the candidate to decide whether to push for a confirmed answer (wastes candidate time in an attempt to save company time which gets lost if you presumably get an answer to the 'chase up' anyway).

    Don't get me wrong, I do agree that if people try and get into an extended dialogue rather than accept a decision once known it can be drawn out and wasteful, a similar thing happens to me a lot in my current work and I find myself putting hours into helping people who aren't even considering being a customer but think we're some kind of advice line

    Which at times can make replying to enquiries that you know are going to lead nowhere seem not very appealing, but then you have to kick oneself up the !!!! and remember its ones job
    Last edited by Dakta; 15-05-2019 at 8:39 PM.
    • Tabatha Kitten
    • By Tabatha Kitten 15th May 19, 8:37 PM
    • 491 Posts
    • 1,152 Thanks
    Tabatha Kitten
    Problem is, when you start sending 'thanks but no thanks' emails, people start replying to them (can I have some feedback? Is it because of my Visa? What else is coming up? etc). You can end up with hundreds of concurrent conversations that take up all of your time. Not replying is safer.

    Appreciate that it's not great for external communication. Applicants are often also customers or work at related businesses. Tricky, but I still sympathise with those who choose the silence approach.
    Originally posted by jonnygee2
    Totally agree with Jonny. I recruited for a small business and replied to all applicants because I felt it was the right thing to do and what I would have wanted if I was the applicant.
    I sent a polite "thanks but no thanks'" email is to those who didn't fit the profile but was met with a number of questions and some abuse. Not replying is safer.
    • Dakta
    • By Dakta 15th May 19, 8:40 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Dakta
    Totally agree with Jonny. I recruited for a small business and replied to all applicants because I felt it was the right thing to do and what I would have wanted if I was the applicant.
    I sent a polite "thanks but no thanks'" email is to those who didn't fit the profile but was met with a number of questions and some abuse. Not replying is safer.
    Originally posted by Tabatha Kitten
    Thanks for this post. again it's another angle and I was interested in reading this side of it.

    it doesn't surprise me much that you get the odd rude or abusive client (who doesn't in business) - was this quite common?
    • Tabatha Kitten
    • By Tabatha Kitten 15th May 19, 8:49 PM
    • 491 Posts
    • 1,152 Thanks
    Tabatha Kitten
    Thanks for this post. again it's another angle and I was interested in reading this side of it.

    it doesn't surprise me much that you get the odd rude or abusive client (who doesn't in business) - was this quite common?
    Originally posted by Dakta
    Just my opinion from a (very) small business point of view.

    Couldn't possibly comment on protocol in the Corporate world as I thank my lucky stars on a daily basis Im no longer part of it.
    Last edited by Tabatha Kitten; 15-05-2019 at 8:52 PM.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 16th May 19, 8:57 AM
    • 7,268 Posts
    • 9,502 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    I think it is very common.
    I'm (one of the ) owners of a small business and we do try to respond.
    However, I think it is pretty common not to.

    I do think some of it is down to volume of applications.
    I know when I was job hunting some years back, one of the people I hd an interview with mntioned that they had had over 200 applications for a single post. They were a small company and I undersatand that it would have been a huge task for them to send out individual responses to that volume of applicants.

    I think therules for those claiming job seekers benefits have added to the problem, as it does tendto mean you get a lot of poor quality applications which are wholly inappropriate to the job posted, so dealing with applications is already time consuming.

    I do think that it is polite for organisations to send out a response, even if it is generic one line e-mail to say you have not ben sucessful this time, but I understand why a lot of places don't.
    • eamon
    • By eamon 16th May 19, 5:43 PM
    • 1,767 Posts
    • 1,257 Thanks
    eamon
    I think its bad manners and exploitative of recruiters and employers to not respond especially when there are cheap and quick methods for doing so.


    1. Stick a few lines in the job advert, closing date and stick a time limit for any contact from them, after that any applicants not at the next stage will know that its not them.


    2. As others have said if its electronic job recruitment a "No Reply" email is perfect.


    But I have reserved a place in Hell for no response if you have attended an interview and then heard nothing.
    • Doshwaster
    • By Doshwaster 16th May 19, 6:05 PM
    • 5,161 Posts
    • 4,260 Thanks
    Doshwaster
    Totally agree with Jonny. I recruited for a small business and replied to all applicants because I felt it was the right thing to do and what I would have wanted if I was the applicant.
    I sent a polite "thanks but no thanks'" email is to those who didn't fit the profile but was met with a number of questions and some abuse. Not replying is safer.
    Originally posted by Tabatha Kitten
    Recruiting for a small business is one thing but once you get to large enterprises which have hundreds of vacancies at anyone time while at the same time HR departments are continually being cut back and much of the recruitment process is now outsourced which don't care about those who aren't offered positions.
    • MarkN88
    • By MarkN88 16th May 19, 6:24 PM
    • 687 Posts
    • 377 Thanks
    MarkN88
    I think it is very common.
    I'm (one of the ) owners of a small business and we do try to respond.
    However, I think it is pretty common not to.

    I do think some of it is down to volume of applications.
    I know when I was job hunting some years back, one of the people I hd an interview with mntioned that they had had over 200 applications for a single post. They were a small company and I undersatand that it would have been a huge task for them to send out individual responses to that volume of applicants.

    I think therules for those claiming job seekers benefits have added to the problem, as it does tendto mean you get a lot of poor quality applications which are wholly inappropriate to the job posted, so dealing with applications is already time consuming.

    I do think that it is polite for organisations to send out a response, even if it is generic one line e-mail to say you have not ben sucessful this time, but I understand why a lot of places don't.
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    The comment about the applications from individuals that are just applying to say they have applied for a certain number of jobs is a good comment, as I reckon this happens a lot.

    I'm curious to know though, if you compared companies or businesses that recruit by asking for a CV over businesses that ask you to complete a lengthy 16 page application form, whether they get many inappropriate and applications that are just individuals who are sending for the sake of it because I would imagine the 16 page application form would deter this and only bring in interested parties.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 16th May 19, 6:54 PM
    • 39,801 Posts
    • 37,041 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    Problem is, when you start sending 'thanks but no thanks' emails, people start replying to them (can I have some feedback? Is it because of my Visa? What else is coming up? etc). You can end up with hundreds of concurrent conversations that take up all of your time. Not replying is safer.

    Appreciate that it's not great for external communication. Applicants are often also customers or work at related businesses. Tricky, but I still sympathise with those who choose the silence approach.
    Originally posted by jonnygee2
    Our approach - small charity - is to send brief rejections with 'sorry but we can't provide feedback, lots of applicants, some of them very strong' to those who don't make it to interview. Doesn't stop people asking ...

    Then post-interview we do give feedback, sometimes by phone, it would worry me to have to do that (I'd prefer a 'sorry' email with brief feedback). But we don't always do that immediately for anyone we'd be prepared to appoint: we wait for the first choice to say 'yes' and only send to those we wouldn't be prepared to appoint.

    The comment about the applications from individuals that are just applying to say they have applied for a certain number of jobs is a good comment, as I reckon this happens a lot.
    Originally posted by MarkN88
    And they can usually be spotted fairly rapidly ... it's the reason we stopped advertising at the Job Centre. For one thing you have to jump through So Many Hoops to get the advert approved, and then you get multiple unsuitable applications. NOT advertising there helps, but doesn't rule out the 'random' applications completely.

    I'm curious to know though, if you compared companies or businesses that recruit by asking for a CV over businesses that ask you to complete a lengthy 16 page application form, whether they get many inappropriate and applications that are just individuals who are sending for the sake of it because I would imagine the 16 page application form would deter this and only bring in interested parties.
    Originally posted by MarkN88
    Asking for an application form doesn't rule out people just sending their CVs because we can't possibly MEAN it when we say we want an application form, can we? Plus (at one stage anyway) the Job Centre were providing a 'standard application form' which claimants were completing rather than our own. It was VERY basic ...
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    • Doshwaster
    • By Doshwaster 16th May 19, 7:59 PM
    • 5,161 Posts
    • 4,260 Thanks
    Doshwaster
    The comment about the applications from individuals that are just applying to say they have applied for a certain number of jobs is a good comment, as I reckon this happens a lot.

    I'm curious to know though, if you compared companies or businesses that recruit by asking for a CV over businesses that ask you to complete a lengthy 16 page application form, whether they get many inappropriate and applications that are just individuals who are sending for the sake of it because I would imagine the 16 page application form would deter this and only bring in interested parties.
    Originally posted by MarkN88
    In addition, these days you don't have to pay for the paper, envelope and stamp in order to apply for job. The cost of emailing a CV with a generic covering letter is effectively zero.
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