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  • FIRST POST
    • PPwinner
    • By PPwinner 14th May 19, 8:08 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 22Thanks
    PPwinner
    Premier Park Ltd court case won
    • #1
    • 14th May 19, 8:08 PM
    Premier Park Ltd court case won 14th May 19 at 8:08 PM
    I recently won my defence to a claim Premier Park Ltd started against me for an overstay in a private car park - many thanks to all of the advice and case examples found here (and having a lawyer in the family)! The key thing I picked up here was not to identify the driver, and to therefore let liability fall to the Keeper of the vehicle! Now I want to share this win far and wide to ensure others don't fall into the trap of paying up unnecessarily! I'm guessing Premier Park Ltd won't bother to amend their NtK...

    The winning argument was that the Notice to Keeper was not compliant with section 9(2)(f) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. The usual 'within 29 days' line. My NtK was "issued" (sent by post) on a Friday and so, in accordance with the Act, deemed "given" on the following Tuesday (i.e. 2 working days later). Premier Park Ltd failed to read / understand / believe me each time (at least 3 times!) I wrote to them explaining that their notice failed to meet the strict requirements of POFA 2012 in warning me that the right to recover unpaid parking charges from the keeper would arise after 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice was given - i.e. in my case, after 32 days. And so I happily let them take me to court over it Of course I'd rather not have wasted my time prepping for it all, but the satisfaction of winning made it worthwhile.

    24 months later, and the hearing was over in ~10 minutes. The Judge did (as I suspected) ask what action the Claimant (Premier Park Ltd) had taken in those 3 days between their incorrect 29 day period and the lawful 32 days - their answer of course, was nothing. However, the Judge told the Claimant that he didn't care for what they might or might not have done and that the fact was their NtK did not comply with law and there were no two ways about it. Unfortunately I wasn't awarded any costs as the Judge "had no sympathy for small claims" and when I asked if instead he'd consider forfeiting their right to remain a member of the Approved Operator Scheme / BPA, he said he didn't want to get involved, but I fully intend to write to them too and perhaps the local papers

    Never mind the many other arguments in my defence which I didn't get round to addressing!!:

    -No proof of authority to operate on the land (dodgy extension to the expired landowner agreement signed by an "Administrator" on behalf of a Limited company)
    -One tiny sign that stated that stated that payment had to cover the entire period between entry and exit to the site (which they admitted in their evidence at the POPLA appeal stage was placed there by the landowner, not themselves), with no proof that it was in place on the day in question (the only photo of signage without a date stamp, and most of the photos datestamped several months after the day in question)..... therefore how can it possibly be a term of the contract?! And what kind of pay and display car park operates in this way anyway!? How can you be expected to remember what time you entered when you aren't given any warning that you need to check as you drive in?
    -IF they could prove it was a term of the contract entered into that day, then in line with the principle in J Spurling Ltd v Bradshaw case law, it should have been brought unavoidably to the driver's attention

    Throughout the paperwork the position and company of the Claimant was also very interchangeable: [Removed by Forum Team] - mostly a Senior Litigation Caseworker, once the Deputy Head of Legal, sometimes worked for Premier Park Ltd, sometimes for P P Legal etc etc... I didn't receive any debt collection threats - just heard nothing between their last offer for me to pay the charge after the failed POPLA appeal and their Letter Before Claim (~2-3 months)!

    Hope this helps!! :-)
    Last edited by MSE ForumTeam2; 24-05-2019 at 7:15 PM.
Page 1
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 14th May 19, 8:12 PM
    • 7,945 Posts
    • 7,768 Thanks
    DoaM
    • #2
    • 14th May 19, 8:12 PM
    • #2
    • 14th May 19, 8:12 PM
    Well done.

    Perhaps write to POPLA to tell them that their adjudicator failed to understand the law, but a judge wasn't so incompetent? (Presumably you made the same non-POFA NTK point in your POPLA appeal?)
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th May 19, 8:17 PM
    • 25,200 Posts
    • 40,680 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #3
    • 14th May 19, 8:17 PM
    • #3
    • 14th May 19, 8:17 PM
    Great win. As they knew (or should have known) that their NtK was not PoFA compliant - and the court has ripped them a new one on this - complain to the DVLA that they were falsely claiming that the keeper was liable. Your relative might want to add some legal wording to it?

    Ask that the DVLA investigate this thoroughly, including how many other motorists have been deceived by the false claims and have paid up under duress.

    ccrt@dvla.gov.uk
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • PPwinner
    • By PPwinner 14th May 19, 8:23 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    PPwinner
    • #4
    • 14th May 19, 8:23 PM
    • #4
    • 14th May 19, 8:23 PM
    Unfortunately I wasn't wise to the non compliant NtK element as I started the POPLA appeal, and appealed on grounds that the PCN was disproportionate to the unpaid parking charge (but did ask for evidence of the contract that had been entered into, all photos etc)... it was only when the evidence pack came through with the expired landowner agreement and a load of template responses relating to points I hadn't raised that I looked into the threads on this forum in more detail and found my winning argument! I detailed it in the comments section but of course it was ignored by the POPLA assessor's as it formed 'new grounds for appeal' which they cannot take into account due to their ridiculous process.
    I duly raised it to Premier Park's attention in writing in my response to the LBC, Defence, an e-mail, my WS... they still didn't give up (more fool them and their incurred costs). The Judge wasn't interested to know if the overstay was genuine or not.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th May 19, 8:24 PM
    • 76,841 Posts
    • 90,198 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 14th May 19, 8:24 PM
    • #5
    • 14th May 19, 8:24 PM
    Great news, and another one bites the dust!

    Which court and Judge?

    Who turned up for PP Legal or PP?

    They boasted here last year they would win cases due to their all singing all dancing legal team, and (whilst they are obviously beating Joe Public, as that's what these aggressive firms do) I don't think we've seen them win one here yet!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • PPwinner
    • By PPwinner 14th May 19, 8:24 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    PPwinner
    • #6
    • 14th May 19, 8:24 PM
    • #6
    • 14th May 19, 8:24 PM
    Will do - thanks for the contact details Umkomaas, meant to ask! Sadly I imagine one case won't tip it, but I hope that mine will be added to a growing pile!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th May 19, 8:28 PM
    • 25,200 Posts
    • 40,680 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 14th May 19, 8:28 PM
    • #7
    • 14th May 19, 8:28 PM
    Will do - thanks for the contact details Umkomaas, meant to ask! Sadly I imagine one case won't tip it, but I hope that mine will be added to a growing pile!
    Originally posted by PPwinner
    If the DVLA try to dodge the issue, the next step will be a Freedom of Information Request, where they will find it much more difficult to provide a mealy-mouthed response.

    Hit them hard.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • PPwinner
    • By PPwinner 14th May 19, 8:38 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    PPwinner
    • #8
    • 14th May 19, 8:38 PM
    • #8
    • 14th May 19, 8:38 PM
    His bundle was so poor that the Judge used mine to rely upon top tip - use an index for a 77 page court document!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th May 19, 8:45 PM
    • 25,200 Posts
    • 40,680 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 14th May 19, 8:45 PM
    • #9
    • 14th May 19, 8:45 PM
    top tip - use an index for a 77 page court document!
    Was that yours, or PP’s?
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • PPwinner
    • By PPwinner 14th May 19, 8:51 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    PPwinner
    Sarcasm regarding PP's.. mine was fully indexed and sectioned
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th May 19, 8:52 PM
    • 76,841 Posts
    • 90,198 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    His bundle was so poor that the Judge used mine to rely upon top tip - use an index for a 77 page court document!
    Originally posted by PPwinner
    Hahaha, @Premier Park's finest legal eagles, are you reading and learning?!

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 14th May 19, 8:58 PM
    • 12,575 Posts
    • 17,541 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Great win. As they knew (or should have known) that their NtK was not PoFA compliant - and the court has ripped them a new one on this - complain to the DVLA that they were falsely claiming that the keeper was liable. Your relative might want to add some legal wording to it?

    Ask that the DVLA investigate this thoroughly, including how many other motorists have been deceived by the false claims and have paid up under duress.

    ccrt@dvla.gov.uk
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Agreed ...... The OP should take this to task
    We can see what the DVLA is really made of ?
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • PPwinner
    • By PPwinner 14th May 19, 9:01 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    PPwinner
    I'll try to update this thread with any progress on that. You guys were instrumental in giving me the confidence to successfully defend the claim!
    • Henryarchie
    • By Henryarchie 13th Jun 19, 4:18 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Henryarchie
    Hi there, I'm so glad to hear that you won. What would happen if you had identified yourself as the driver as I have done? Does anyone know?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jun 19, 4:21 PM
    • 25,058 Posts
    • 32,035 Thanks
    Redx
    Hi there, I'm so glad to hear that you won. What would happen if you had identified yourself as the driver as I have done? Does anyone know?
    Originally posted by Henryarchie

    you have less legal arguments as a driver because POFA does not help a driver, meaning the driver has to win on some other legal technicality such as no landowner contract, poor and inadequate signage etc


    in this case it was won on POFA so the other legal points were not discussed and so nobody can tell you what would have happened had the OP named themselves as driver, because that aspect never came up
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Jun 19, 2:07 AM
    • 76,841 Posts
    • 90,198 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hi there, I'm so glad to hear that you won. What would happen if you had identified yourself as the driver as I have done? Does anyone know?
    Originally posted by Henryarchie
    Yes, we know, and about half the defendants here defend as admitted driver.

    Read some more court defence threads where they are written from a driver's perspective, it's normal.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • PPwinner
    • By PPwinner 14th Jun 19, 9:53 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    PPwinner
    Currently waiting whilst the BPA look into my claim for Premier Park Ltd’s breaches of Code...

    The BPA responded to my letter really quickly and took it very seriously 🤞🏻 DVLA basically said if the BPA tell them about an issue, they’ll react then.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Jun 19, 10:19 PM
    • 76,841 Posts
    • 90,198 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The winning argument was that the Notice to Keeper was not compliant with section 9(2)(f) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. The usual 'within 29 days' line.
    Your case would be useful to quote for other people at POPLA or in defences.

    Could you please tell us, now you are safe from the scam:

    - the court and Judge's name

    - the claim number

    - the date of judgment?

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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