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  • FIRST POST
    • Hazelp
    • By Hazelp 14th May 19, 6:30 PM
    • 22Posts
    • 19Thanks
    Hazelp
    Update on SAR request from Premier Park Ltd
    • #1
    • 14th May 19, 6:30 PM
    Update on SAR request from Premier Park Ltd 14th May 19 at 6:30 PM
    The drivers original Thread was:-

    In September 2015 the driver parked the hired vehicle in Premier Carpark in Torquay. The drivers partner paid the fee using a machine and as they pressed enter they realised they had done so without entering Number plate. The machine issued a ticket and so the driver and partner both assumed that this would be okay to pay and display as any parking attendant would see that they had a valid ticket. Also, why would a machine issue a ticket if it wasn't complete of all information needed?

    The hirer received a parking invoice through the post and then they wrote to them explaining the error and how if they looked on their records to see if anyone had paid a ticket that day and time period and not entered number plate, the hirer explained this was a genuine error and that the ticket machine issuing a ticket without all information needed is at fault for issuing it. The parking company were still adamant that due to signage the hirer had not followed the guidelines and so the hirer is liable for the invoice. The parking company also said the hirer could write to popla to appeal at which they did and unfortunately Popla agreed with Premier.

    The hirer ignored all letters from them, as advised on parking forums at the time, and the letters eventually stopped.

    Over 3 years have gone by and on 18th April 2019 the hirer received a letter from BW Legal saying that they are now dealing with the unpaid invoice and that the hirer has 14 days to pay otherwise Premier will commence legal proceeding. Two weeks later the hirer received a Letter of Claim which states if payment or a response is not received by 2nd June 2019 they have been instructed to issue a claim against the hirer in the County Court without notice.

    The hirer has looked in Forums to see what they should do next. On the NEWBIES forum it recommends the hirer request a SAR and write to BW Legal to request they put a hold on the case.

    Any other advise would be good. The hirer tried reading more on the NEWBIES forum but found it difficult to get their head around.

    Thank you.

    1. SAR requested to Premier Park Ltd
    2. Informed BW Legal of the hirer request and asked for case to be put on hold until SAR received.





    Update.
    The hirer received email today from BW Legal saying that they are acting on their clients instructions to recover the balance which remains due etc, etc. They also said the information about the right to restrict processing only applies in certain circumstances, and their view is the hirer case is not applicable. The hirer case will not be suspended from further collections activity unless they are instructed to do so by Premier.
    The hirer has a question.....does the hirer contact Premier Park asking for them to contact BW Legal to put their case on hold until the hirer receives the SAR info they are waiting for? SAR could take approx 30 days, this takes the hirer up to 6th June, BW has given the hirer up to 2nd June..!

    Update 16/05/19
    BW Legal have emailed to say they are in receipt of my email (requesting time to seek legal advice), and that the matter is being queried and file placed on hold.

    Update 30/05/19
    SAR received but lacking PDT info that I requested was important, sent email to DPO to ask for them to send it ASAP, they emailed back saying that are not prepared to send it as they are not obliged to.
    (One can assume they have not got the information any more and are using excuses not to send the information needed)
    Last edited by Hazelp; 30-05-2019 at 1:05 PM. Reason: Updated information from DPO
Page 2
    • Hazelp
    • By Hazelp 30th May 19, 12:13 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Hazelp
    Today, 30/05/19, I received SAR from Premier. It appears that haven't supplied the most important bit of information that I had requested.... They did not send the PDT machine record for that day. I have sent a email to the DPO to tell them I need this information ASAP. Is there anything else I should do?
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 30th May 19, 1:00 PM
    • 6,559 Posts
    • 6,570 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    You won't get data from a PDT unless it is about you/your vehicle. The PPCs and/or their DPOs are playing silly whatnames with the rules; they could easily send a readout around a certain time with VRMs that aren't yours partially redacted.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 30th May 19, 1:14 PM
    • 12,510 Posts
    • 17,428 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Today, 30/05/19, I received SAR from Premier. It appears that haven't supplied the most important bit of information that I had requested.... They did not send the PDT machine record for that day. I have sent a email to the DPO to tell them I need this information ASAP. Is there anything else I should do?
    Originally posted by Hazelp
    These parking scammers really hate a SAR.

    The bottom line is that if they fail to provide their proof, or they refuse to provide such, that is when a judge takes over

    If these idiots don't want to provide proof, they cannot expect to win against a judge ..... Premier simply don't understand
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Hazelp
    • By Hazelp 30th May 19, 1:16 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Hazelp
    Le_Kirk, I received an email back saying that they are not obligated under the General Data Protection Regulations to supply information that is not deemed to be personal data and therefore they will not be providing this.
    When I sent a SAR request I stated it was important I receive PDT info and that they can be partially redacted. Should I reply again to their email? Thanks
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 30th May 19, 1:33 PM
    • 6,559 Posts
    • 6,570 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    As beamerguy says, let the judge decide. Put it in your witness statement and use the e-mails as evidence when the case is heard.
    • Hazelp
    • By Hazelp 30th May 19, 1:40 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Hazelp
    Thank you everyone. It's a waiting game now, I shall put this in my witness statement which I shall prepare now.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st May 19, 12:52 AM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,714 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Le_Kirk, I received an email back saying that they are not obligated under the General Data Protection Regulations to supply information that is not deemed to be personal data and therefore they will not be providing this.
    When I sent a SAR request I stated it was important I receive PDT info and that they can be partially redacted. Should I reply again to their email? Thanks
    Originally posted by Hazelp
    We have had this exact same question three times today alone. I wish everyone would read the threads like we do!

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5986633&page=2

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=75861576#post75861576

    Eat, sleep, post, repeat...
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Hazelp
    • By Hazelp 31st May 19, 7:47 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Hazelp
    Coupon-m
    Thought about Premiers email response last night, read a bit more on the Forums, read about insisting for PDT info over and over again and then sent them the following:-



    Dear Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x

    I write in reply to your email dated xx/xx/xxxx

    In relation to a SAR that I received today, and your reply of my email requesting the missing information I originally requested. I write to state that you have not fully responded to my original request.

    In my original email I asked for the following:-

    - All photos taken
    - All letters/emails sent and received, including any appeal correspondences.
    - A PDT machine record for that day of all payments received. (VRN's can be partially redacted, but it's important that I receive this)
    - All data held, all evidence you will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN, NTK.

    I am asking for you to send me the PDT machine record for that day, you can narrow it down to the time of day, (xx:xx entry time), the VRN's can be partially redacted to protect your clients data. I am not asking for something that I haven't had advice to ask for. This is a reasonable request.

    Thank you.

    I look forward to hearing from you.

    Xxxxxxxxxxxxx


    Let's see what happens.
    • steve1500
    • By steve1500 31st May 19, 8:08 AM
    • 1,307 Posts
    • 936 Thanks
    steve1500
    Where you are asking for CCTV/ANPR or anything else that can not be readily be found by a computer using a search function, then you have to give the company a certain amount of information, such as date / time etc usually + / - 10 /15 minutes otherwise they are within their rights to refuse.

    Personal information for a SAR is anything which you are the centre of and not a passing reference.

    So anything relating to your car reg, is subject to a SAR.

    They have two options, supply the information. or state that they don't have the information.

    If they refuse to supply, complain to the ICO
    Last edited by steve1500; 31-05-2019 at 8:16 AM.
    Private Parking Tickets - Make sure you put your Subject Access Request in after 25th May 2018 - It's free & ask for everything, don't forget the DVLA
    • Hazelp
    • By Hazelp 31st May 19, 8:28 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Hazelp
    Where you are asking for CCTV/ANPR or anything else that can not be readily be found by a computer using a search function, then you have to give the company a certain amount of information, such as date / time etc usually + / - 10 /15 minutes otherwise they are within their rights to refuse.

    Personal information for a SAR is anything which you are the centre of and not a passing reference.

    So anything relating to your car reg, is subject to a SAR.

    They have two options, supply the information. or state that they don't have the information.

    If they refuse to supply, complain to the ICO
    Originally posted by steve1500
    Even though the PDT I am looking for won't have a reg number but a blank space?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Jun 19, 5:52 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,714 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes because you and I would say the fee made was your payment/your money, and it is a fault with the machine that it issued a parking licence ticket without recording the VRN.

    So the payment you indisputably made is still your data and they can certainly show that payment transaction to you, as it is within their gift, is known or likely to be known as common ground that it relates to your car, and by showing that transaction record you asked to see, they are not divulging anyone else's personal data.

    So withholding that data from a consumer, yet storing and using that same data to sue that person, seems to offend against the DPA Principles of 'fairness' and 'relevance' and 'Processed in line with your rights' at least:

    DPA PRINCIPLES
    Fairly and lawfully processed
    Processed for limited purposes
    Adequate, relevant and not excessive
    Accurate
    Not kept for longer than is necessary
    Processed in line with your rights
    Secure
    Not transferred to other countries without adequate protection
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Hazelp
    • By Hazelp 3rd Jun 19, 5:51 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Hazelp
    Coupon-m. Thank you for this. I have resent my PDT request once again, using quotes from the DPA Principles. You have been a great help. I will update you when I hear back from them.
    • Hazelp
    • By Hazelp 5th Jun 19, 8:25 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Hazelp
    It would appear that Premier are ignoring my emails. I will now complain to the ICO like Steve1500 suggests. Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks
    • Hazelp
    • By Hazelp 9th Jun 19, 11:24 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Hazelp
    Just a update with request of a bit of more advise.
    I keep emailing Premier with my request of PDT record that I need as evidence, they have ignored my messages numerous times. I have emailed a complaint to ICO, of which they are dealing with.
    Do I keep messaging Premier in the hope they will finally respond or maybe try to speak to their DPO, or do I just wait until I hear back from ICO?
    Thanks in advance.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Jun 19, 12:03 PM
    • 25,070 Posts
    • 40,398 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    You seem to be banging your head against a brick wall. Leave it now to the ICO, they will confirm, or otherwise, whether your request is legitimate and whether PP are required to comply.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • didgeridoooo
    • By didgeridoooo 13th Jun 19, 8:55 PM
    • 230 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    didgeridoooo
    EVERYONE IN THE UK SHOULD COVER THEIR NUMBERPLATES ON PRIVATE LAND, IMHO.

    They need an 'in' and 'out' image, so deny them the 'out' data (it's YOUR data and your right!). Just remove the black sock or dark carrier bag as soon as round the corner out of camera sight.

    And always check on foot for the direction the 'out' camera is pointing, so you cover the front or back numberplate, according to the angle they use. Don't hand over your data and they cannot do anything, as you have no obligation to let them have it.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    CM I have been considering this idea a lot lately with a friend of mine (engineer). We had some ideas for electronically switchable covers for number plate, or at very least.... a magnetic cover to throw on and pull off at will. It's the first time I have read of the idea online, and by your good self no less! You're spot on there. Here's my question.....

    We only have one or two ANPR car parks in our area, but we have tons of stick and run car parks (with the most unscrupulous lowlifes inhabiting them! What do you reckon to the idea of REMOVING number plates while parked? I am not actually suggesting not paying, just removing number plates. Just to screw with the lowlifes. I must confess, one such lowlife in particular does have me tempted to do this and not pay! (I have TWICE reported him for physically threatening people, more often than not bullying little old ladies (a favourite target of his, big man that he is). Your thoughts would be appreciated!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jun 19, 11:17 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,714 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes, why not? There is no law about having a numberplate on private land, AFAIK.

    Albeit there is a slight risk someone might report it to the Council as an abandoned car...but in my experience Councils then rock up 3 weeks later and put a notice on an abandoned car for another 3 weeks before they do anything.

    I like your engineer friend's idea. It's marketable, IMHO, as long as the maker made it clear it was ONLY for private land use to avoid parking scammers, and not for on street.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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