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Will Brexit happen?

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  • ukcarper
    ukcarper Posts: 17,337 Forumite
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    edited 7 May 2019 at 4:16PM
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    Herzlos wrote: »
    Why? I'm not sure anyone thinks Mays deal is a good idea. It gives us the worst of both worlds and doesn't solve any of the issues. It's an epic can kicking exercise

    It'd be much better to go full WTO, send the cabinet to Brussels and remove their passports until it's sorted out.
    It's not the final deal only the leaving agreement and from what I can tell the main problems is back stop. I personally don't believe the EU are using that to trap us but as I've said both hard brexiters and remains who want to reverse decision are not prepared to compromise.
  • Takedap
    Takedap Posts: 805 Forumite
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    ukcarper wrote: »
    It's not the final deal only the leaving agreement and from what I can tell the main problems is back stop. I personally don't believe the EU are using that to trap us but as I've said both hard brexiters and remains who want to reverse decision are not prepared to compromise.


    I think as far as the Leavers are concerned, the NI backstop is not acceptable because it doesn't have a fixed end date. They think it is the EU's way of "trapping" us.


    I also think the EU won't commit to an end date because they've seen that we aren't very good with deadlines (apart from the way we like to see them whooshing past us)
  • Thrugelmir
    Thrugelmir Posts: 89,546 Forumite
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    edited 7 May 2019 at 5:42PM
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    enthusiasticsaver wrote: »
    My preference is to hold another referendum with narrower choices on the ballot this time

    Cannot get any narrower choice than in or out. ;)

    Multiple choice will simply result in divided opinion. Insufficient mandate for any particular course of action.

    Then there's the problem of the EU agreeing to the choosen option.
  • phillw
    phillw Posts: 5,594 Forumite
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    edited 7 May 2019 at 6:03PM
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    BikingBud wrote: »
    Our departure should have been clean and swift and we should be on the way to developing and enhancing our world status.

    It was never possible to be swift and clean.

    It's going to take generations before the damage to our world status can be repaired.
    Thrugelmir wrote: »
    Cannot get any narrower choice than in or out. ;)

    It's the widest possible choice, out doesn't mean anything. The wishful thinking shy racists saw it as not having to put up with foreigners in any situation at all, but it was generally sold as "nobody is suggesting leaving the single market".

    You need to narrow it down somewhat, whats happening at the moment is that leave voters are subconsciously becoming more racist & it's in our own interests to stop that..
  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 14,688 Forumite
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    ukcarper wrote: »
    It's not the final deal only the leaving agreement and from what I can tell the main problems is back stop. I personally don't believe the EU are using that to trap us but as I've said both hard brexiters and remains who want to reverse decision are not prepared to compromise.


    Remainers have been trying to compromise for 3 years now, but we're still not sure what Brexiteers want. Or rather, what practical compromise they'd accept - they want a cake and eat it Brexit which just isn't possible.


    I'm not sure what compromise is possible, being that Leave and Remain are contradictory. Even Mays red lines contradict each other.



    As you say, Mays deal is only an interim and leaves all of the underlying problems unsolved (like the NI border). The backstop is the EU's way to make sure we don't screw it up or renege on our side of the deal.
  • ukcarper
    ukcarper Posts: 17,337 Forumite
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    Herzlos wrote: »
    Remainers have been trying to compromise for 3 years now, but we're still not sure what Brexiteers want. Or rather, what practical compromise they'd accept - they want a cake and eat it Brexit which just isn't possible.


    I'm not sure what compromise is possible, being that Leave and Remain are contradictory. Even Mays red lines contradict each other.


    Ŷ
    As you say, Mays deal is only an interim and leaves all of the underlying problems unsolved (like the NI border). The backstop is the EU's way to make sure we don't screw it up or renege on our side of the deal.

    Depends what you call compromise I don't see much real compromise coming from remain MPs just BINO.

    The problems cannot be resolved until final deal is known.
  • Filo25
    Filo25 Posts: 2,131 Forumite
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    ukcarper wrote: »
    Depends what you call compromise I don't see much real compromise coming from remain MPs just BINO.

    The problems cannot be resolved until final deal is known.

    If the ERG and DUP had supported May's deal it would have passed, plenty of Remain MPs on the Tory side of the house supported May's deal, it was the hardline Leavers who were the problem.
  • ukcarper
    ukcarper Posts: 17,337 Forumite
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    Filo25 wrote: »
    If the ERG and DUP had supported May's deal it would have passed, plenty of Remain MPs on the Tory side of the house supported May's deal, it was the hardline Leavers who were the problem.

    ERG and DUP are one side and most likely will not compromise but if MPs from other parties who say they respect the vote supported deal it would have got through.
  • Filo25
    Filo25 Posts: 2,131 Forumite
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    ukcarper wrote: »
    ERG and DUP are one side and most likely will not compromise but if MPs from other parties who say they respect the vote supported deal it would have got through.

    It shouldn't be up to the oppositon to get this through, lots of Labour leavers aren't voting for it for party political reasons as much as anything else.

    The prime reason the Govt can't get the votes it needs on its own benches are the actions of its hard line leavers.
  • ukcarper
    ukcarper Posts: 17,337 Forumite
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    Filo25 wrote: »
    It shouldn't be up to the oppositon to get this through, lots of Labour leavers aren't voting for it for party political reasons as much as anything else.

    The prime reason the Govt can't get the votes it needs on its own benches are the actions of its hard line leavers.

    It needs Parliament to get it through they voted to hold referendum and trigger article 50 so it's there responsibility. The majority of Labour MPs are in leave supporting constituencies.
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