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  • FIRST POST
    • viper1984
    • By viper1984 27th Apr 19, 2:41 PM
    • 28Posts
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    viper1984
    BWLegal Letter Premier Park
    • #1
    • 27th Apr 19, 2:41 PM
    BWLegal Letter Premier Park 27th Apr 19 at 2:41 PM
    Hi

    I am seeking help and advice for my mother, and for myself as I am helping her.

    I have started this thread as I received a PCN myself a few months after my mother received hers. I read the information on this forum, then sought and took advice, and won at POPLA.

    My mother received the below letter from BWLegal on 12/04/2019. I believe the next steps are to send a SAR via email to Premier Park, AND to send a request for the restriction of data processing and that the case should be put 'on hold' via email to BWLegal.

    I should also add that upon receiving the letter my mother phoned and spoke to BWLegal and then sent them an email containing photo evidence of; her parking space with car and garage included, letter confirming exchange of contracts had taken place when buying her flat, cheque stumps, her original letter sent to Premier Park in 2015. She did not receive a reply email other than a generic we have received your email.

    Timeline/Brief summary of actions up to this point happy to give more detail if required
    Mother received PCN for Invalid Permit 22/01/15. She did not have permit displayed. She was parked in her parking space in front of her garage at the block of flats she lives in. She owns the flat, does not rent.
    She wrote to Premier Park by hand, was told PCN still applied.
    Appealed to POPLA. POPLA appeal rejected.
    'Offer to settle to avoid court proceedings letter received from Premier Park 26/09/16. Letter stated 100 payment must be made by 03/10/16.
    Cheque dated 26/09/16 for 60 sent to Premier Park. Rejection letter received as it was not the full 100 now requested.
    Cheque dated 17/10/16 for 100 sent to Premier Park. Letter received 19/10/16 from Premier Park rejecting payment as has been passed to debt collectors agency.
    Received below letter from BWLegal 12/04/19.
    Phoned BWlegal and sent email containing photo evidence.

    I have tried to keep this as brief as possible, but if any further information will help to give advice, please ask and I will get it for you.

    I would like to thank anyone who offers their help and advice in advance. I will update this thread step by step in the hope it can help someone else in future.

    Can anyone confirm for that that these are the correct steps to take for now please?
    1. Send a SAR request via email to Premier Park
    2. Send a request for the restriction of data processing and that the case should be put 'on hold' via email to BWLegal.

Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 27th Apr 19, 2:50 PM
    • 24,973 Posts
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    Redx
    • #2
    • 27th Apr 19, 2:50 PM
    • #2
    • 27th Apr 19, 2:50 PM
    1) correct , with a scan or pic of either the V5C doc OR a scan or pic of the form you showed, as proof of ID


    2) correct , add a scan of that letter as proof of ID of the person sending it too
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Apr 19, 9:17 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 27th Apr 19, 9:17 PM
    • #3
    • 27th Apr 19, 9:17 PM
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=75741921#post75741921

    Thanks to Umkomaas for that thorough summary.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • viper1984
    • By viper1984 30th Apr 19, 10:18 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    viper1984
    • #4
    • 30th Apr 19, 10:18 AM
    • #4
    • 30th Apr 19, 10:18 AM
    The SAR Request email has been sent to Premier Park, and the email notifying BWLegal also sent.

    I have just noticed the BWLegal letter has the vehicle registration incorrect (1 character wrong). Does this have any implications for either party? Should we notify BWLegal of their error?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 30th Apr 19, 10:35 AM
    • 76,396 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 30th Apr 19, 10:35 AM
    • #5
    • 30th Apr 19, 10:35 AM
    That's a typo - so no and no.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • viper1984
    • By viper1984 6th May 19, 1:36 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    viper1984
    • #6
    • 6th May 19, 1:36 PM
    • #6
    • 6th May 19, 1:36 PM
    We have had a couple of letters through from BW Legal...

    The first is BW Legal rejecting the restriction of data processing as expected. I believe no further action needed on this.

    Second is the Letter of Claim from BW Legal.

    Can anyone confirm my understanding of the situation is correct please? No response needs to be sent to the Letter of Claim from BW Legal, and we just await the County Court claim to come through the post. And while waiting for the County Court claim, I should start to prepare the defence.

    Not had the SAR information back from Premier Park yet, but it has only been a week since it was sent to them.

    Thank you in advance for your help.

    [/url]

    [/url]
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th May 19, 3:36 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 6th May 19, 3:36 PM
    • #7
    • 6th May 19, 3:36 PM
    I would always respond to a LBC and I like to mirror their words, like this:


    Dear Sirs,

    Your client: Premier Park / account number xxxxxxx / VRN xxx xxxx

    I see you are continuing to bombard me with letters whilst I am awaiting a SAR from your client. Since you asked, your position is not satisfactory, and I do not have 'an account' with your or your client.

    Any debt is denied but I am seeking debt advice from a reputable online source. As such, in accordance with the PAP for Debt Claims, you must now put the matter on hold for at least 30 days from receipt of this communication.

    At least that will give me the chance to also receive and review the data that your client deigns to produce at long last, none of which accompanied your template 'Letter of Claim'.

    I realise that personal data does not include a copy of the signage that your client purports bound me to a contract. I now request this yet again, and require that you supply all signage photographs that your client intends to rely upon, after the 30 day period and certainly before commencing court action.

    Estimated Claim
    This is a baseless claim and pure harassment of a resident of a property with title, unlike any parasite parking firm third party. I suggest you actually read my previous email containing photo evidence of:

    - my parking space with car and garage included, and
    - a letter re exchange of contracts and payments when buying this flat, and
    - my original letter sent to Premier Park in 2015, when they should have cancelled the charge.

    The estimated claim is alarmist, intimidating and contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge, which was not 160 and is in any event, denied in its entirety.

    An additional charge - variously described as 'initial legal costs' or 'debt collection' depending on how the mood seems to take BW Legal in your template letters - is not recoverable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, nor with reference to the judgment in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 where only 85 was recovered and it was held that such a case cannot be pleaded in damages.

    In addition, whilst the CPRs allow interest to be claimed, it is unreasonable to attempt to claim interest where the time that has passed is wholly due to your client's own inaction and choice in failing to pursue this meritless case in a timely fashion, until suddenly deciding to scrape the barrel by farming hundreds of old cases to yourselves, a self-proclaimed 'one-stop-shop for debt collection'.

    Further, you have included 'legal costs' twice, despite no solicitor having been involved. Any purported 'legal costs' are made up out of thin air. According to Ladak v DRC Locums UKEAT/0488/13/LA a Claimant can only recover the direct and provable costs of the time spent preparing the claim in a legal capacity, not any administration costs allegedly incurred by already remunerated administrative staff.

    Given the fact that BW Legal boasted in Bagri v BW Legal Ltd of processing 'millions' of claims with an admin team (and only a handful of solicitors), the Defendant avers that no solicitor is likely to have supervised this current batch of cut & paste robo-claims.

    It is an abuse of process for a Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for additional sums which it is not entitled to recover and the court will be invited to strike out the claim.

    Further, CPR 44.3 (2) states:
    ''Where the amount of costs is to be assessed on the standard basis, the court will –
    (a) only allow costs which are proportionate to the matters in issue. Costs which are disproportionate in amount may be disallowed or reduced even if they were reasonably or necessarily incurred; and
    (b) resolve any doubt which it may have as to whether costs were reasonably and proportionately incurred or were reasonable and proportionate in amount in favour of the paying party.


    Enclosures
    I will not be filling in financial forms. Your parking firm client is not entitled to such data and there is no debt to discuss, as there never is with the industry you choose to prop up. Both you and your client were named and shamed in Parliament in 2018 during the readings of the long-awaited Parking Bill (now Act) and you are the last people any honest victim of an unfair 'parking charge' scam would want to furnish with my private financial information.


    What you need to do now
    (a) Advise your client to cancel this meritless proposed claim to avoid wasted legal action.

    (b) Given that I have duly informed you that the debt is disputed and I am seeking debt advice from a reputable online source, in accordance with the PAP for Debt Claims you must now put the matter on hold for at least 30 days from receipt of this communication.

    (c) Once the 30 day period has passed you must comply with the PAP for debt claims and supply me with the requested information that does not fall under the SAR, namely all photographs taken on the material date, showing the signage terms. This must be supplied in advance of any claim in order to comply with the PAP especially given the fact that I have fully complied and shown the evidence that I own the flat and demised parking space and garage as set out in my lease.

    For the avoidance of doubt, I have never have, and never would, contract with any parking firm to allow them to operate their ''outrageous scam'' (Hansard 2.2.18) of marauding around near my property and trespassing on my demised land, harassing me or my visitors with false demands for money.

    Further, my lease does not give any standing to a third party such as your client who is not in possession. Premier Park was never a party to my lease and seems to have failed to even carry out the basic checks and balances that a reasonable person would expect to be done to protect the existing easements, rights and interests of the residents by exempting them and their allocated parking spaces from enforcement, before blighting the estate with an unwanted and unsolicited regime.


    How to get in touch
    You may contact me by post or email after the 30 days has elapsed but you/your clients are specifically not allowed to attempt to use my phone number to harass me by text or phone. You must now erase the data of the telephone number I used to call you once, which was purely to obtain your email address to prove that I own the flat with a demised parking space and that your client has no cause of action.

    My address for service is:

    xxxxxx

    I trust this is satisfactory and clarifies my position. Should you/your client be dissatisfied with your own response and data processing you may report yourselves by making a complaint to the SRA and Information Commissioner's Office.

    yours faithfully,
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 15-06-2019 at 10:34 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • viper1984
    • By viper1984 6th May 19, 3:53 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    viper1984
    • #8
    • 6th May 19, 3:53 PM
    • #8
    • 6th May 19, 3:53 PM
    Thank you Coupon-mad

    That is above and beyond the help I had expected, really kind of you. It is much appreciated, especially as you included all the information specific to my mother.

    I will add the relevant information and ensure she sends out the email. Thanks again, will update next time I hear anything.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th May 19, 3:58 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 6th May 19, 3:58 PM
    • #9
    • 6th May 19, 3:58 PM
    I've edited it a bit, added more.

    She can tone it down if sarcasm isn't her thing.

    I rather like it when scam baiting and fighting unfair parking charge crap, as you can tell!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Mark2spark
    • By Mark2spark 6th May 19, 4:04 PM
    • 2,285 Posts
    • 875 Thanks
    Mark2spark
    It's the 'What you must do now' that C-M has edited Viper in case you don't spot it
    • viper1984
    • By viper1984 22nd May 19, 4:50 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    viper1984
    Okay, just to keep the thread updated. Since my last post we have had a letter from BW Legal through the post, and the SAR request from Premier Park.

    The BW Legal letter was dated 16/05/19 and was basically saying the request for to restrict processing has been rejected. Let me know if I need to go into any further detail and I will do.

    The SAR from Premier Park dated 10/05/16 contained..
    - Premier Park's notes on the case
    - Original PCN
    - Photo's of car, and space parked in
    - Emails from us/my mother to Premier Park
    - Letters from Premier Park sent to my mother
    - POPLA case with evidence submitted

    I think we are now just waiting for the County Court Claim Form to come through the post. Then it will be time to start preparing the defence.

    One question I have is what weight does the POPLA case hold in the County Court?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 22nd May 19, 4:55 PM
    • 17,821 Posts
    • 21,673 Thanks
    KeithP
    One question I have is what weight does the POPLA case hold in the County Court?
    Originally posted by viper1984
    None at all.
    .
    • waamo
    • By waamo 22nd May 19, 5:01 PM
    • 7,860 Posts
    • 10,695 Thanks
    waamo
    It's unlikely POPLA will even be mentioned in the county court. Judges like to make their own minds up.
    This space for hire.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd May 19, 1:46 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,714 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Given your response told them this:
    What you need to do now
    (b) Given that I have duly informed you that the debt is disputed and I am seeking debt advice from a reputable online source, in accordance with the PAP for Debt Claims you must now put the matter on hold for at least 30 days from receipt of this communication.
    ...then the fact the Claimant's solicitor then replied refusing to give you the 30 days allowed in the PAP for debt claims (your right, when saying you are seeking debt advice) you can then use that in defence and your WS, to paint a picture of unreasonableness which makes it possible to try to reach the high bar of 'unreasonable conduct' to claim your costs on the indemnity basis.

    Keep a list of the unreasonableness from now on.

    Search the forum for shining example unreasonableness costs and read how someone got 700+ at their hearing by painting that picture and reaching the high bar required to claim on the indemnity basis.

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • viper1984
    • By viper1984 13th Jun 19, 5:49 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    viper1984
    Just an update to keep the thread up to date. No County Court Claim Form has come through yet.

    However we did get the below letter from BW Legal on the 7th June.

    • didgeridoooo
    • By didgeridoooo 15th Jun 19, 7:11 PM
    • 230 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    didgeridoooo
    I constantly find amusement in reading these morons' ramblings!

    "... upon a response from Our Client."

    HA HA HA, did they not do O Level English? Our Client is not a "proper noun". They do it twice, pathetic attempt to appear 'official' and knowledgeable, unfortunately having the opposite effect (on me anyway!!).
    Good luck with this, smells good so far. CRACKING letter by CouponMad up there !

    Oh and PS - just for future reference, and I can't be sure, but I would advise when you anonymise your documents for posting, cover up the bar codey Q codey (I am too old, leave me alone!) thing as I have a feeling that will be 100% unique to your letter. Someone will no doubt correct me if I am wrong, but at a guess I would say they have added that for quick processing, but also perhaps to catch people out on this board. I would always cover anyway, just in case.

    Good luck with educating these fools.
    • viper1984
    • By viper1984 31st Jul 19, 6:58 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    viper1984
    Apologies for not adding any updates..but thats because there hasnt been anything to report really!

    We recieved the letter below on 09/07/19, and not had anything through since.

    [/url]
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