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    • ddc79
    • By ddc79 16th Apr 19, 9:28 PM
    • 6Posts
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    ddc79
    Value of (right of way) land
    • #1
    • 16th Apr 19, 9:28 PM
    Value of (right of way) land 16th Apr 19 at 9:28 PM
    Hello all,

    First time poster here!

    I'm in the process of purchasing my first home. My offer has been accepted, solicitors have started work and the survey has come back looking fairly good.

    The solicitor has identified an area where part of the garden is not included in the sale as it's not in the title deeds of the flat. The area belongs to the ground floor flat and the property I'm purchasing has 'right of way' to its garden.

    The issue I have is that the ground floor flat isn't in the best shape, the owner can't get to the 'right of way' space unless they climb through their ground floor window or jump over the fence. They also don't maintain the space, although they can use it for whatever they want. Confusing isn't it?

    I would really appreciate some advice on how to value this piece of land and if anyone has experienced anything similar?

    Please let me know if you have any questions and thanks in advance for any advice or opinions.

    Cheers,
    Daz
Page 1
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 16th Apr 19, 9:37 PM
    • 10,898 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 19, 9:37 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 19, 9:37 PM
    Sorry, not making a great deal of sense here. Are you saying that the flat you're buying has a garden, part of the garden it's occupying is in the other flat's title, but that your flat does at least have a right of access through that bit?

    I suppose from a valuation point of view, the worst-case scenario is that you lose that bit of garden - so that would be a question for the surveyor, since we have no idea how large an area you're talking about or what the property values are.
    • Yellow_mango
    • By Yellow_mango 16th Apr 19, 9:43 PM
    • 90 Posts
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    Yellow_mango
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 19, 9:43 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 19, 9:43 PM
    Why do you need to value this piece of land? Are you wanting to purchase it from the ground floor flat? Is there the potential for you to do anything with it other than use it to access your flat?
    • ddc79
    • By ddc79 17th Apr 19, 5:38 AM
    • 6 Posts
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    ddc79
    • #4
    • 17th Apr 19, 5:38 AM
    • #4
    • 17th Apr 19, 5:38 AM
    Thank you for your replies. I tried to upload an image but it wouldnít let me.

    @davidmcn - correct re your first paragraph question. Youíre right re. the worst case scenario. Iíd add that if the owner (ground floor flat) did want to use that land, I would have zero control over what was done with it. The ground flat isnít in good condition. Their half of the garden isnít in a good condition either and thereís no door / gate to get to it. So they could easily add things to this space by dumping things through a window or jumping a fence and storing things.



    @Yellow_mango - my offer was on the basis that the land was included in the purchase. I need it valued so I can reduce my offer accordingly. I had plans to use it eg. garden table and chairs.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 17th Apr 19, 8:07 AM
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    davidmcn
    • #5
    • 17th Apr 19, 8:07 AM
    • #5
    • 17th Apr 19, 8:07 AM
    It's not so much the value of the "missing" bit of land you want, it's the value of "that flat with a small garden" versus "the same flat with a slightly larger garden". There possibly isn't any material difference, especially if in practice you can use it.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 17th Apr 19, 10:29 AM
    • 6,176 Posts
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    sheramber
    • #6
    • 17th Apr 19, 10:29 AM
    • #6
    • 17th Apr 19, 10:29 AM
    Was this originally a communal garden where someone has fenced off part of it.

    You have right of way over it. Right of way to where or what?
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 17th Apr 19, 10:35 AM
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    davidmcn
    • #7
    • 17th Apr 19, 10:35 AM
    • #7
    • 17th Apr 19, 10:35 AM
    I tried to upload an image but it wouldnít let me.
    Originally posted by ddc79
    Upload an image elsewhere and then post a link to it here - as you're a new user you'll need to disguise the link by e.g. putting spaces in it.
    • Yellow_mango
    • By Yellow_mango 17th Apr 19, 10:50 AM
    • 90 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    Yellow_mango
    • #8
    • 17th Apr 19, 10:50 AM
    • #8
    • 17th Apr 19, 10:50 AM
    Honestly I think Iím more concerned about the neighbours, the condition they keep their flat and garden, and your concerns about their behaviour (dumping rubbish on the land) than the legal status of the land in question.

    Is this really somewhere you want to live?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 17th Apr 19, 10:56 AM
    • 47,785 Posts
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    G_M
    • #9
    • 17th Apr 19, 10:56 AM
    • #9
    • 17th Apr 19, 10:56 AM
    Unclear (to me anyway!)

    The solicitor has identified an area where part of the garden is not included in the sale as it's not in the title deeds of the flat. The area belongs to the ground floor flat and the property I'm purchasing has 'right of way' to its garden.
    * So the buildig has a large garden.
    * part of the garden belongs to the ground floor flat
    * part of the garden belongs to the1st loor floor flat (yours)
    * there is a ROW across the ground floor flat's garden to acess the 1st floor flat's garden (which is at the back of the garden as a whole?)
    This is not an unusual arrangement.



    The issue I have is that the ground floor flat isn't in the best shape,
    Not your busienss, unless the fact that the neighbour's garden is a mess means you don't want to live there.

    the owner can't get to the 'right of way' space unless they climb through their ground floor window or jump over the fence.

    Makes no sense. The owner of the ground floor flat has to climb through their window o access their own garden? There is no back door? Or side entrance?



    They also don't maintain the space, although they can use it for whatever they want. Confusing isn't it?

    That aspect is not confusing. Unless their lease requies them to keep the garden in a certain degree of tidyness (unlikely but possible) they can do as they wish in their own garden.


    I would really appreciate some advice on how to value this piece of land and if anyone has experienced anything similar?
    Which piece of land?
    The neighbour's garden?
    The 1st floor flat's garden (ie 'yours')?
    If the latter, i is worth, to you, whatever you are willing to pay for it. Is the garden important to you?

    Originally posted by ddc79
    The access to the 1st floor flat's garden is most unclear. As is the location of the ROW. and acess via the ROW from the building to the garden.
    • ddc79
    • By ddc79 17th Apr 19, 9:12 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ddc79
    Thanks to @davidmcn @sheramber @Yellow_mango @G_M for your questions.

    The location below should provide clarity to some of your questions. Added spaces after the full points so youíll need to remove those.

    @G_M To get to the garden, I go from my flat out the back, down concrete stairs and onto the concrete patio to then take right of way to my garden. The issue is that I thought the whole lot was part of the sale and was therefore included in my offer price.

    Remove spaces:
    https :// drive. google. com/open?id=1MrLXw_WEdiHuuezxaPPByU9UwbLMG9kN

    As thereís a gap, owned by the ground floor flat, there are 2 issues.

    1. I need to deduct the value of the land from my offer price and need to work out what this is; and
    2. As the ground floor flat cannot access this land in question, unless via a window or jumping over a fence, there is risk of neglect. Worse still, if there are disputes due to other issues such as noise etc. then use of the land by its owner could be used for evil purposes.

    I really appreciate your questions and comments - it's helping me bring clarity to what I need to do.

    best,
    DDC
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 17th Apr 19, 9:31 PM
    • 10,898 Posts
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    davidmcn
    Link here
    1. I need to deduct the value of the land from my offer price and need to work out what this is
    Originally posted by ddc79
    Like I said above, no you don't. What you want to do is work out what the value of the whole property is, based on the actual title. The garden isn't going to be worth much per square foot, and you seem to have the bulk of what you thought you were getting. You don't get to deduct something out of principle just because you're disappointed that you're not getting the whole lot.

    2. As the ground floor flat cannot access this land in question, unless via a window or jumping over a fence, there is risk of neglect.
    If in practice they don't access it and only you do, then you can make sure it isn't neglected. You're probably overthinking this.

    use of the land by its owner could be used for evil purposes
    Not sure what you mean by this or why this particular set-up makes it more likely than any other flatted building. Of course, if you fear your new neighbours might be "evil" then why are you buying?!
    • ddc79
    • By ddc79 17th Apr 19, 9:44 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    ddc79
    @davidmcn

    1. Thank you for your response to point 1. I've just had an Ahaaa moment and understand your point.

    2. Yes, very likely overthinking this.

    3. There have been informal complaints (I'm finding out more info) and the lower ground flat is a little more run down based on seeing their garden and the look of their window so it's a slightly greater risk.

    Overall it's a great apartment with some fantastic period features which is why I'm considering how best to position my compromise.
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