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  • FIRST POST
    • Angelhales2601
    • By Angelhales2601 16th Apr 19, 1:26 PM
    • 116Posts
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    Angelhales2601
    Landlord didn't protect deposit within 30 days
    • #1
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:26 PM
    Landlord didn't protect deposit within 30 days 16th Apr 19 at 1:26 PM
    So I won't provide a long winded back story here other than we have been in the property 9 months. There have been a few issues such as ongoing damp problems that the landlord went AWOL on whenever the letting agent tried to contact them, in the end it took 8 weeks for anyone to even come out and review it.

    When we were told recently he was selling we sought legal advice on our rights, they reviewed all the paper work and found out it took 43 days for the landlord to protect the deposit. At the time we did email to chase it up and were told that it was being done.

    We sent the landlord a letter to tell them that we would be seeking the return of the deposit and compensation.

    Since then the letting agent has been in contact to say what do we want? I've said we are seeking the full penalty and they've said the landlord is getting their own legal advice and will then reply.

    I have the court form already prepared - is there anything else I need to do in the meantime?
Page 1
    • Simonr66
    • By Simonr66 16th Apr 19, 1:41 PM
    • 168 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    Simonr66
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:41 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:41 PM
    So I won't provide a long winded back story here other than we have been in the property 9 months. There have been a few issues such as ongoing damp problems that the landlord went AWOL on whenever the letting agent tried to contact them, in the end it took 8 weeks for anyone to even come out and review it.

    When we were told recently he was selling we sought legal advice on our rights, they reviewed all the paper work and found out it took 43 days for the landlord to protect the deposit. At the time we did email to chase it up and were told that it was being done.

    We sent the landlord a letter to tell them that we would be seeking the return of the deposit and compensation.

    Since then the letting agent has been in contact to say what do we want? I've said we are seeking the full penalty and they've said the landlord is getting their own legal advice and will then reply.

    I have the court form already prepared - is there anything else I need to do in the meantime?
    Originally posted by Angelhales2601


    it is unlikely you would receive the full penalty as the landlord did register the deposit albeit late. The judge will award the return of your deposit and maybe 1x by way of compensation alternatively he may deem the immediate return of the original deposit sufficient.
    • zagubov
    • By zagubov 16th Apr 19, 2:18 PM
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    zagubov
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:18 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:18 PM
    You will clearly need your deposit back in good time for your next accommodation, but I would be surprised if you were given full penalty when the deposit was only protected a few days late.
    There is no honour to be had in not knowing a thing that can be known - Danny Baker
    • macman
    • By macman 16th Apr 19, 2:53 PM
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    macman
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:53 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:53 PM
    Have you already been served with an S21? Informing you verbally or in writing is not sufficient. Are you seeking to remain in the property longer than 8 weeks?
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • Angelhales2601
    • By Angelhales2601 16th Apr 19, 2:55 PM
    • 116 Posts
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    Angelhales2601
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:55 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:55 PM
    No we are not seeking to stay.
    The tenancy is up at the start of July but we have found somewhere and would like to move earlier but as our tenancy has no break clause they won’t let us out early.
    • Simonr66
    • By Simonr66 16th Apr 19, 2:57 PM
    • 168 Posts
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    Simonr66
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:57 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:57 PM
    No we are not seeking to stay.
    The tenancy is up at the start of July but we have found somewhere and would like to move earlier but as our tenancy has no break clause they won’t let us out early.
    Originally posted by Angelhales2601

    You could try and use that to your advantage, let us leave early and we wont sue
    • anselld
    • By anselld 16th Apr 19, 4:01 PM
    • 6,223 Posts
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    anselld
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 19, 4:01 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 19, 4:01 PM
    Since then the letting agent has been in contact to say what do we want? I've said we are seeking the full penalty and they've said the landlord is getting their own legal advice and will then reply.
    Originally posted by Angelhales2601
    Why don't you just tell them what you really want, ie to be released early from your contract without penalty and your deposit returned promptly.

    They may view that as a reasonable request under the circumstances.

    If you say you want 3x penalty + deposit the response will probably be "see you in court" which doesn't really help anyone.
    • Angelhales2601
    • By Angelhales2601 16th Apr 19, 4:19 PM
    • 116 Posts
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    Angelhales2601
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 19, 4:19 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 19, 4:19 PM
    We did try to use it to negotiate but they weren’t interested.
    • Marvel1
    • By Marvel1 16th Apr 19, 4:24 PM
    • 4,080 Posts
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    Marvel1
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 19, 4:24 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 19, 4:24 PM
    Probably the best you will get is 1x the deposit, but as said in post 8 you tried to negiotate they don't so screw them.
    • anselld
    • By anselld 16th Apr 19, 4:35 PM
    • 6,223 Posts
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    anselld
    Probably the best you will get is 1x the deposit, but as said in post 8 you tried to negotiate they don't so screw them.
    Originally posted by Marvel1
    Perhaps, but opening negotiation with an entirely unreasonable request isn't really trying.

    OP stands to lose about two months rent by leaving early. Unlikely that will be recovered in penalties. A more reasonable attempt at negotiation could be beneficial.
    • Wanderingpomm
    • By Wanderingpomm 16th Apr 19, 8:56 PM
    • 176 Posts
    • 157 Thanks
    Wanderingpomm
    I’d imagine if you leave early and try to take the LL to court for a deposit penalty you will be counter sued for the outstanding rent amount. You may get the penalty but you may not as the deposit was protected.

    You would be better to get the agent to advertise the property immediately, you might find a replacement tenant and then you could just go earlier.
    • macman
    • By macman 16th Apr 19, 11:30 PM
    • 43,248 Posts
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    macman
    We did try to use it to negotiate but they weren’t interested.
    Originally posted by Angelhales2601
    They might do once they receive an LBA and realise you are serious. There is no realistic defence against late protection of your deposit. They are probably unaware of the penalty.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 17th Apr 19, 6:57 AM
    • 17,141 Posts
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    FBaby
    You could try and use that to your advantage, let us leave early and we wont sue
    The landlord would be stupid to agree to this as OP could still sue afterwards whereas LL won't if he does agree to early release.

    The LL is best to agree to go to court, rely on a reasonable judge who will at best just agree to the full release, at worse agree to 1x the deposit in addition to the return, and then ask for 3 months rent to the end of the fixed contract.

    You made a mistake OP in your urge to get money from your LL. You should have negotiated an early release and then sue. As it is, if you want to move now, you'll owe more to your LL than what you can get from him for his failure to protect the deposit as your chances of a 3x compensation is highly unlikely.
    • BBH123
    • By BBH123 17th Apr 19, 7:37 AM
    • 956 Posts
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    BBH123
    Hmmm you threaten court action because of a late deposit and then expect him to let you leave early. Why did you start off confrontational in the first place you've probably got his back up.


    Goodness knows what you'd be like if something serious happened. Glad you're not my tenant.
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    • Kevie192
    • By Kevie192 17th Apr 19, 10:19 AM
    • 1,156 Posts
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    Kevie192
    My understanding of the law is that the judge MUST award between 1-3x the deposit. Is that not the case? I see some people saying a penalty may not be awarded at all?
    • Simonr66
    • By Simonr66 17th Apr 19, 10:26 AM
    • 168 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    Simonr66
    My understanding of the law is that the judge MUST award between 1-3x the deposit. Is that not the case? I see some people saying a penalty may not be awarded at all?
    Originally posted by Kevie192


    No the Judge can award up to 3x, the amount awarded would be at their discretion using legal guidelines. Your deposit was protected albeit late so the Judge would use that discretion, order immediate return along with possibly 1 x or as I previously said consider the return adequate compensation given is was only a few weeks late.
    • wesleyad
    • By wesleyad 17th Apr 19, 10:52 AM
    • 466 Posts
    • 449 Thanks
    wesleyad
    No the Judge can award up to 3x, the amount awarded would be at their discretion using legal guidelines. Your deposit was protected albeit late so the Judge would use that discretion, order immediate return along with possibly 1 x or as I previously said consider the return adequate compensation given is was only a few weeks late.
    Originally posted by Simonr66
    Do you have any more info on that as everything we have seen suggests the judge must award a minimum of 1x the amount? I've never seen a case where the judge has let them off for a minor offence.

    https://www.landlordsguild.com/localism-act-and-tenancy-deposit-schemes/

    The landlord “must” pay the applicant (former tenant) not less than the amount of the deposit and not more than three times deposit within 14 days
    • G_M
    • By G_M 17th Apr 19, 11:02 AM
    • 47,785 Posts
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    G_M
    You are right. The judge has discretion to award a minium of 1 x the deposit and a max of 3 x the deposit.

    In this case, it is 90% certaon the judge will award the minimum, since
    * the deposit was proptected
    * it was protected bedfore the tenancy ended
    * it was protected without threats ie the LL complied off his own bat
    * it was only 15 days late

    If I were the LL, and had received a warning that my tenant was considering going to court on the basis of 15 days late protection, I would

    * accept that I'd messed up and likely have to pay the minimum penalty
    * be pretty p*ssed off with the tenant
    * not do any deal with the tenant, since no deal could guarantee that this tenant would not later go to court, even if I agreed to whatver it was they wanted (eg an Early Surrender).
    Last edited by G_M; 17-04-2019 at 11:06 AM.
    • Angelhales2601
    • By Angelhales2601 17th Apr 19, 11:08 AM
    • 116 Posts
    • 534 Thanks
    Angelhales2601
    Hmmm you threaten court action because of a late deposit and then expect him to let you leave early. Why did you start off confrontational in the first place you've probably got his back up.


    Goodness knows what you'd be like if something serious happened. Glad you're not my tenant.
    Originally posted by BBH123
    The request to leave early was made before the issue with the deposit came to light. We were reasonable in our requests and they refused despite the house being put on the market.

    After the letter was received by them saying we will take them to court for the money they agreed to letting us out one month early. We have however already lost out on properties that would be suitable as a result of not being able to leave yet.

    The current situation stands at the tenancy can end one month early. And LL is seeking legal advice following my letter.
    • zagubov
    • By zagubov 17th Apr 19, 11:14 AM
    • 15,977 Posts
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    zagubov
    The judge MAY make an award of between 1 and 3 times the deposit.

    However, if the landlord thinks the tenant is out to gouge them, what's to stop him finding every legitimate reason he can to withhold some or all of the deposit?
    Last edited by zagubov; 17-04-2019 at 11:54 AM.
    There is no honour to be had in not knowing a thing that can be known - Danny Baker
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