Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Oldfield Parker
    • By Oldfield Parker 16th Apr 19, 12:44 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Oldfield Parker
    Help - primary employer wants me to quit second job
    • #1
    • 16th Apr 19, 12:44 PM
    Help - primary employer wants me to quit second job 16th Apr 19 at 12:44 PM
    Hi, hoping someone can possibly help me please. I've been working for my primary employer for just over a year and my second part time (one day a week) job for two years. I've now received an email saying that we can't be offered preferred days off basically saying that I need to quit my second job. However, I made it clear bef9re I started that I had a second job and wanted to continue with it and also have a saved email confirming that I could continue which I have passed on to the person who wants me to quit. I've not heard back yet abd just wondered if anyone knew where I stood woth this? Thank you!
Page 1
    • martinthebandit
    • By martinthebandit 16th Apr 19, 12:46 PM
    • 3,872 Posts
    • 6,674 Thanks
    martinthebandit
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 19, 12:46 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 19, 12:46 PM
    Which job is more important to you?

    If you don't find joy in the snow,
    remember you'll have less joy in your life


    ...but still have the same amount of snow!
    • RichardD1970
    • By RichardD1970 16th Apr 19, 12:48 PM
    • 3,192 Posts
    • 4,802 Thanks
    RichardD1970
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 19, 12:48 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 19, 12:48 PM
    If you have been working there for under 2 years then you have very little in the way of rights.

    As far as I'm aware they can get rid of you for any or no reason (notwithstanding protected characteristics).

    Some one with more expertise may be along with more info.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 16th Apr 19, 1:04 PM
    • 7,223 Posts
    • 9,462 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:04 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:04 PM
    Does your original contract specify which days you work?

    I suspect that the answer is probably that they cannot make you give up your other job, but they may well be able to tell you they cannot guarantee to fit round it
    • polgara
    • By polgara 16th Apr 19, 1:08 PM
    • 408 Posts
    • 397 Thanks
    polgara
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:08 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:08 PM
    As I read it they aren't forcing you to give up the second job but what they are saying is that you aren't guaranteed to have the days off that you use for your second job. If this is your primary job then I assume that it pays more? Its really your choice which is more important to you.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 16th Apr 19, 1:14 PM
    • 35,552 Posts
    • 21,734 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:14 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:14 PM
    If you want to keep both jobs you need to approach this a little carefully.

    What sort of work pattern
    Is the 1 day fixed or variable day can it be made variable if fixed.

    Which days do you typically work

    How many hours are each job.

    What are the rates of pay

    Will primary job expect more hours once they know you have given up 2nd job.

    do they need you ie if you quit the primary job how big a problem would it be for them.


    One thing you need to know is the business need for this change.
    Why do they need your days to be more flexible and in particular the you do the other job.

    Any new proposal should try to address the business needs.
    • Exodi
    • By Exodi 16th Apr 19, 1:56 PM
    • 496 Posts
    • 616 Thanks
    Exodi
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:56 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:56 PM
    I'd also check if your 'primary job' contract has any clauses regarding other employment.

    The last few jobs I've had have explicitly stated that I held no other employment without the express permission of the employer.
    Know what you don't
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 16th Apr 19, 2:26 PM
    • 6,275 Posts
    • 6,972 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:26 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:26 PM
    The 'main' employer can simply say that business needs mean they are no longer able to keep to the previous working days. As you have only been there about a year you have no security of employment so trying to fight the change is a high risk strategy.
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 16th Apr 19, 2:29 PM
    • 66,156 Posts
    • 388,549 Thanks
    PasturesNew
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:29 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 19, 2:29 PM
    The trouble is, employers want "flexible staff" - which is a euphemism for "they want to own you".

    In the long run ... you'll have to end up choosing whether to give up your other job, or find another primary job. That's the way employers are these days "if you can't/won't be 'flexible' (they never are), then somebody else will".
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 16th Apr 19, 2:32 PM
    • 35,552 Posts
    • 21,734 Thanks
    getmore4less
    I'd also check if your 'primary job' contract has any clauses regarding other employment.

    The last few jobs I've had have explicitly stated that I held no other employment without the express permission of the employer.
    Originally posted by Exodi
    The contract term would have been overridden by the fact they had the second job when they started and let then know.
    • Oldfield Parker
    • By Oldfield Parker 16th Apr 19, 4:56 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Oldfield Parker
    Hi all,

    Thanks for all your replies!

    I think this is pretty much what I was expecting. The business has grown and we are struggling to answer all incoming calls (I work in a call centre) it's not really going to make a difference to them hours wise if I quit my second job as it's a Sunday job which is not particularly busy calls wise anyway and I can't work more hours for them anyway because I already work full time for them and obviously won't be offering to help out with overtime! They really just need to take on more staff as it's not physically possible for us to handle any more calls ourselves I don't think.

    There's nowhere in my contract or handbook which states what days I have to work, not even one of those '5 from 7' contracts. There's also no policy in either handbook or contract about second jobs so not sure where that leaves me either. I guess I need to wait and see what they come back with having forwarded the original email confirming second job.

    I think Pastures New is certainly right that employers basically want to own you! I've been looking for a new job for a little while now as they are a pretty bad company to work for on the whole so hoping to get something soon!
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 16th Apr 19, 5:01 PM
    • 19,526 Posts
    • 20,276 Thanks
    jobbingmusician
    What does your contract actually say? Does it specify the number of hours' work each week, or is it a zero hours contract? If the latter, you could always refuse work on Sundays. (Conversely, though, they could just not offer you any work, in response. But it does sound as if they need you, from your latest post.)
    I'm the Board Guide on the Matched Betting; Referrers and Jobseeking & Training boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    The good folk of the matched betting board are now (I hope!) supporting Macmillan, in memory of Fifigrace. Visit
    https://www.gofundme.com/running-the-leeds-10k-for-macmillan
    • Oldfield Parker
    • By Oldfield Parker 16th Apr 19, 5:21 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Oldfield Parker
    It's quite vague, just says normal working hours are 37.5 and there are various shift patterns. It does also say that to meet the needs and patterns of the business shift working arrangements are flexible and subject to change so I guess they will point that out if necessary. To be honest, I won't fight it, Better to just make feelings known and move on.
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 16th Apr 19, 8:10 PM
    • 19,526 Posts
    • 20,276 Thanks
    jobbingmusician
    It's just occurred to me - if your contract does not state that you are required to work on Sundays, you can refuse to work on Sundays - and my understanding is that any dismissal because of this is automatically unfair. (However, I do stress that until you have been there for 2 years your employer can dismiss you for any other reason!) Have a look at https://www.gov.uk/sunday-working
    I'm the Board Guide on the Matched Betting; Referrers and Jobseeking & Training boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    The good folk of the matched betting board are now (I hope!) supporting Macmillan, in memory of Fifigrace. Visit
    https://www.gofundme.com/running-the-leeds-10k-for-macmillan
    • andydownes123
    • By andydownes123 17th Apr 19, 7:37 AM
    • 550 Posts
    • 668 Thanks
    andydownes123
    What days do you actually work? Do you think your main job will require you to work a Sunday now? Good point above - you can opt out of working Sundays, however if you want to keep the main job I wouldn’t rock the boat too much. I wouldn’t do anything until it actually clashes though, then you negotiate for a while and then if needs be kick up a fuss and then maybe consider quitting 2nd job. I would be asking how many Sundays they want to make you work though. I would be very annoyed if you quit and then they rarely scheduled you for a Sunday. Could you perhaps use some of your holiday on both jobs to counteract the occasional clash?
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 17th Apr 19, 10:50 AM
    • 35,552 Posts
    • 21,734 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Hi all,

    Thanks for all your replies!

    I think this is pretty much what I was expecting. The business has grown and we are struggling to answer all incoming calls (I work in a call centre) it's not really going to make a difference to them hours wise if I quit my second job as it's a Sunday job which is not particularly busy calls wise anyway and I can't work more hours for them anyway because I already work full time for them and obviously won't be offering to help out with overtime! They really just need to take on more staff as it's not physically possible for us to handle any more calls ourselves I don't think.

    There's nowhere in my contract or handbook which states what days I have to work, not even one of those '5 from 7' contracts. There's also no policy in either handbook or contract about second jobs so not sure where that leaves me either. I guess I need to wait and see what they come back with having forwarded the original email confirming second job.

    I think Pastures New is certainly right that employers basically want to own you! I've been looking for a new job for a little while now as they are a pretty bad company to work for on the whole so hoping to get something soon!
    Originally posted by Oldfield Parker
    It does not really matter what the contracts says they can be changed to meet the business needs as it grows, it can delay any change but ultimately the business needs will need change.

    if I read this right your second job is a Sunday and only Sunday
    any flexibility available for that job where you could swap/miss the odd Sunday?

    Main job is full time and does not currently include Sundays.

    If it was changed to be more flexible on days/shift worked how often is Sunday working likely to happen(putting aside you get picked on to stop you working elsewhere).

    eg. if there was a fair rota given current staffing how often would a Sunday come round.

    Would they want people to work extra days or swap days to give the cover?

    Could that fit with the second jobs flexibility?


    Another angle is the full time equivalent analysis, this is where you use a persons availability in days|shifts|hours and map onto the business requirements to see how many people you need to cover those hours.
    From that you can assess the number of people needed when the work level goes up.

    if you can show that being more flexible does not solve the problem of not having enough people that can help back up a case.

    eg.

    if the place is open for calls say from 6to6 and a 7hr day with 2 people overlapping for breaks covers one workload.

    35hr 7hr*5day being a full time week

    To do that 7 days a week you have a requirement for 7*52=364 work days

    Each pair with statutory holidays can do 46.4*5=232

    364/232 is 1.57 so to cover the 7days and holidays you need more than 3.14 people

    If you have 3 people apart from being short there will be periods where people need to work more than 5 days in a row.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 17th Apr 19, 10:57 AM
    • 35,552 Posts
    • 21,734 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Don't get your hopes up with opt out that does not apply to call centres.

    Any resistance to Sunday working will just delay the inevitable that it will be put into the contracts at some point.

    no more pay rises until new contract signed is the easy one to people transferred to flexible hours/days.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,068Posts Today

7,436Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • Have a great Easter, or a chag sameach to those like me attending Passover seder tomorrow. I?m taking all of next? https://t.co/qrAFTIpqWl

  • RT @rowlyc1980: A whopping 18 days off work for only 9 days leave! I?ll have a bit of that please......thanks @MartinSLewis for your crafty?

  • RT @dinokyp: That feeling when you realise that you have 18 days of work and only used 9 days of your annual leave! Thanks @MartinSLewis h?

  • Follow Martin