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  • FIRST POST
    • BeadyRoller
    • By BeadyRoller 15th Apr 19, 3:56 PM
    • 23Posts
    • 10Thanks
    BeadyRoller
    Parking Ticket Back In June Of Last Year Now Resulting In Court
    • #1
    • 15th Apr 19, 3:56 PM
    Parking Ticket Back In June Of Last Year Now Resulting In Court 15th Apr 19 at 3:56 PM
    Hi.

    So basically, June last year I received a letter through the post explaining that I had a parking ticket for staying in Starbucks car park for to long. At the time I was gigging around the UK and was just killing sometime in the day as I had loads of time spare until I had to be at the next venue. It was just a Starbucks on it's own at the side of a road with a little car park which was empty apart from 2 or 3 cars. I didn't even think to check how long I had as I was using their facilities and presumed all was ok. Since June I have had various letters throughout the year asking to pay and I did a little research and found the best way was to ignore them as it was just a scare tactic to try get me to pay up. Fast forward to now and I have had a County Court letter saying they are taking it to court and I believe I cannot ignore this one.

    What do I do next? I am at a loss now, do I just need to pay up or can I put up a defence? The fee has rose a considerable amount and I can't really afford to pay it nor do I think I should have to, I was just having a coffee for goodness sake, the car park was empty so it's not as if I was taking up any room and I was only there for a couple of hours.

    I do have proof I was using the Starbucks as it is on my bank statement.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated as I have never had to deal with this before.

    Cheers.
Page 2
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 15th Apr 19, 6:51 PM
    • 14,345 Posts
    • 16,326 Thanks
    KeithP
    How should I produce a Defence? I guess that's all in the sticky thread?
    Originally posted by BeadyRoller
    Full guidance on how to produce a Defence is, as you've guessed, in the NEWBIES thread.
    .
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 15th Apr 19, 6:55 PM
    • 14,345 Posts
    • 16,326 Thanks
    KeithP
    And say what exactly? Just explain my situation?
    Originally posted by BeadyRoller
    Ask them if your AoS has been accepted.

    If the answer is 'yes', then of course carry on compiling your Defence.

    If the answer is 'no', you may as well ask them if the Claimant has sought a Default Judgement yet.

    Again if the answer is 'no' you would be wise to file an AoS immediately by email to the CCBCAQ email address I posted earlier.
    .
    • BeadyRoller
    • By BeadyRoller 16th Apr 19, 10:21 AM
    • 23 Posts
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    BeadyRoller
    Just rang up and my AoS has been accepted and she said as it is a bank holiday I have until 4pm on the 23rd to send it.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Apr 19, 1:05 PM
    • 14,345 Posts
    • 16,326 Thanks
    KeithP
    ...she said as it is a bank holiday I have until 4pm on the 23rd to send it.
    Originally posted by BeadyRoller
    Yes, that's what I wrote yesterday in post #13 above.
    .
    • BeadyRoller
    • By BeadyRoller 17th Apr 19, 11:39 AM
    • 23 Posts
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    BeadyRoller
    Hi, I have looked through post #2 on the NEWBIE thread and I am having a hard time on which thread applies to my situation and what Defence I should use?

    Sorry to be a pain, just never done this before and want to make sure I get it right. Bit confused on what I do next.

    Cheers.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 17th Apr 19, 12:53 PM
    • 4,621 Posts
    • 3,998 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    You overstayed your welcome, so you probably need to use a defence that you were a customer of Starbucks, the signs were inadequate and you put the claimant to strict proof that they have permission and authority to chase you for payment. Choose one of Bargepole's concisely written defences that contains at least those points and add others that refute whatever the claimant is claiming in the POC. If there are insufficient details in the POC, use that as a defence point as well.
    • BeadyRoller
    • By BeadyRoller 17th Apr 19, 2:55 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    BeadyRoller
    I overstayed my welcome so how can I even begin to defend that? I'm really struggling to come up with anything at the moment.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th Apr 19, 2:58 PM
    • 22,245 Posts
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    Redx
    on the grounds mentioned in the previous post , that the time allowed isnt adequate , genuine customer , no landowner authority , poor and inadequate signage , inadequate POC , all the usual legal points

    here is what CM said recently

    most people can use bargepole's concise template defence from the NEWBIES thread, and add in a point or two about the facts of the case/contravention/why they are not liable.
    And a point about no landowner authority as seen in other defences.

    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 17th Apr 19, 3:00 PM
    • 38,643 Posts
    • 22,594 Thanks
    Quentin
    I overstayed my welcome so how can I even begin to defend that? I'm really struggling to come up with anything at the moment.
    Originally posted by BeadyRoller

    Have you seen the suggestions given you in #26??
    • BeadyRoller
    • By BeadyRoller 17th Apr 19, 3:12 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    BeadyRoller
    on the grounds mentioned in the previous post , that the time allowed isnt adequate , genuine customer , no landowner authority , poor and inadequate signage , inadequate POC , all the usual legal points

    here is what CM said recently
    Originally posted by Redx
    Thanks for the reply? Where is this template? I can't seem to find it in the Newbies thread, not sure which is the right one.
    • BeadyRoller
    • By BeadyRoller 17th Apr 19, 3:14 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    BeadyRoller
    You overstayed your welcome, so you probably need to use a defence that you were a customer of Starbucks, the signs were inadequate and you put the claimant to strict proof that they have permission and authority to chase you for payment. Choose one of Bargepole's concisely written defences that contains at least those points and add others that refute whatever the claimant is claiming in the POC. If there are insufficient details in the POC, use that as a defence point as well.
    Originally posted by Le_Kirk
    Thanks, I think I'm just finding it hard putting it in the right way.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 17th Apr 19, 3:15 PM
    • 38,643 Posts
    • 22,594 Thanks
    Quentin
    ….. Where is this template?
    Originally posted by BeadyRoller

    There aren't "template" defences as such


    But lots of links to near template defences you can tailor to your circs
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th Apr 19, 3:15 PM
    • 22,245 Posts
    • 28,131 Thanks
    Redx
    the defence ones are where posts by member BARGEPOLE are linked !!

    use a laptop for this task, if you are not using a laptop it will harm your abilities to see what you are told, DO NOT USE A PHONE for this

    that NEWBIES thread has all the advice you need , please study it

    there are 2 DEFENCES by BARGEPOLE linked in there , read them both , one is longer than the other , the short one is the concise one
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 17th Apr 19, 3:44 PM
    • 4,621 Posts
    • 3,998 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    We find it is better if you carry out your research yourself as it tends to stick better. On that basis, go to the NEWBIE thread, post # 2 and scroll down until you see: -
    Here are some cases won or in progress:

    Here is a defence I suggested
    ........ and keep reading, these are defences suited to most cases. Another way is to use the Search this Forum button, Advanced Search, User name bargepole (note the lower case) and change the radio button from Threads to Posts. You will find loads!!
    • BeadyRoller
    • By BeadyRoller 17th Apr 19, 4:17 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    BeadyRoller
    How is this so far?

    IN THE COUNTY COURT
    CLAIM No: XXXXXXXXX
    BETWEEN:
    CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD (Claimant)
    -and-
    XXXXXXXXXX (Defendant)
    ________________________________________
    DEFENCE
    ________________________________________

    1. The Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of vehicle registration number XXXXXXX on the material date. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

    2. The Particulars of Claim state that the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or the driver of the vehicle. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5. Further, the particulars of the claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached.

    3. The Defendant was a customer of Starbucks and was on site at all times spending money at the establishment. The Defendant was using the car park for it's intended purpose and had no reason to believe there was a time frame in which he had to abide by.

    4. It is denied that the claimant's signage is clear to see when parking and walking in to the establishment and is to small to get the customers attention if not looking the way of the signage.

    5. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient interest in the land or that there are specific terms in its contract to bring an action on its own behalf. As a third party agent, the Claimant may not pursue any charge, unless specifically authorised by Starbucks. The Defendant has the reasonable belief that the Claimant does not have the authority to issue charges on this land in their own name, and that they have no right to bring any action regarding this claim.

    6. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case 100. The claim includes an additional 82.00 as well as other extras for which no calculation or explanation is given, and which appears to be an attempt at double recovery.

    6.1. The Claimant cannot reasonably recover an additional 93.29 in damages or costs to pursue an alleged 100 debt. The POFA states that the maximum sum that may be recovered is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case 100 (this sum also being the ceiling allowed by the BPA) and thus 100 is the maximum sum potentially recoverable under contract, regardless of whether the illegible small print on the signs attempted to bolt on a further sum (this is not known, but is a common trick by this industry).

    7. Due to the sparseness of the particulars, it is unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct.

    8. In summary, the Claimant's particulars disclose no legal basis for the sum claimed, and the Court is invited to dismiss the claim in its entirety.

    Statement of Truth:
    I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

    Name
    Signature
    Date
    Last edited by BeadyRoller; 18-04-2019 at 2:53 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 17th Apr 19, 4:19 PM
    • 14,345 Posts
    • 16,326 Thanks
    KeithP
    BeadyRoller, please delete that copy of your Defence you arbitrarily posted on someone else's thread.

    And remove your vehicle#'s registration mark from both copies.
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th Apr 19, 4:20 PM
    • 22,245 Posts
    • 28,131 Thanks
    Redx
    its a start, dont expect to get it right at first attempt, it will be honed as you go

    and dont tell me it was hard to make that start from the information given, you soon found what you needed after all the pointers given

    edit out the VRM if that is the vehicle VRM, its not needed in the draft, only in the final version you submit to the CCBC

    no personal details on a public forum , no VRM, no names or addresses , no references

    capiche ?
    Last edited by Redx; 17-04-2019 at 4:30 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • BeadyRoller
    • By BeadyRoller 17th Apr 19, 4:21 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    BeadyRoller
    BeadyRoller, please delete that copy of your Defence you arbitrarily posted on someone else's thread.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Done. Sorry about that. Had multiple tabs open and thought I was posting to this thread.
    • BeadyRoller
    • By BeadyRoller 17th Apr 19, 4:23 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    BeadyRoller
    its a start, dont expect to get it right at first attempt, it will be honed as you go

    edit out the VRM if that is the vehicle VRM, its not needed in the draft, only in the final version you submit to the CCBC

    no personal details on a public forum , no VRM, no names or addresses , no references

    capiche ?
    Originally posted by Redx

    Oooops, edited out now. I'll keep looking and see if there's anything else I can add to it.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th Apr 19, 4:32 PM
    • 22,245 Posts
    • 28,131 Thanks
    Redx
    Oooops, edited out now. I'll keep looking and see if there's anything else I can add to it.
    Originally posted by BeadyRoller
    good , and this is what Le_Kirk said in the other thread you posted in

    Did you meant to post on your own thread???
    If that is your correct VRM, I would remove it.

    Also, there is usually a point about the PPC trying to claim additional monies, check out the bargepole defences again.
    Last edited by Le_Kirk
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
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