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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Naomi
    • By MSE Naomi 15th Apr 19, 8:29 AM
    • 197Posts
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    MSE Naomi
    TSB launches refund guarantee for fraud victims - MSE News
    • #1
    • 15th Apr 19, 8:29 AM
    TSB launches refund guarantee for fraud victims - MSE News 15th Apr 19 at 8:29 AM
    TSB has promised to refund customers who lose money through any type of fraud under its Fraud Refund Guarantee...
    Read the full story:
    'TSB launches refund guarantee for fraud victims'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.
Page 1
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 15th Apr 19, 8:57 AM
    • 10,090 Posts
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    eskbanker
    • #2
    • 15th Apr 19, 8:57 AM
    • #2
    • 15th Apr 19, 8:57 AM
    Although the obligations on banks are increasing, it seems brave of TSB to stick their heads above the parapet in this way! It'll be interesting to know if it ultimately results in the level of fraud at TSB increasing, although I don't suppose that data would be readily available....

    Further details at https://www.tsb.co.uk/fraud-prevention-centre/fraud-refund-guarantee/
    • karlie88
    • By karlie88 15th Apr 19, 9:01 AM
    • 8,780 Posts
    • 108,111 Thanks
    karlie88
    • #3
    • 15th Apr 19, 9:01 AM
    • #3
    • 15th Apr 19, 9:01 AM
    I'm amazed by this guarantee (and not in a positive way).

    Whilst it will be welcomed by an innocent person on the receiving end of such fraud, I can see the scammers laughing all the way to the (TSB) bank with this guarantee.

    And up to £1m for APP fraud?! Good luck to TSB...
    Official MSE canny forumite and HUKD VIP badge member
    • swindiff
    • By swindiff 15th Apr 19, 9:11 AM
    • 496 Posts
    • 252 Thanks
    swindiff
    • #4
    • 15th Apr 19, 9:11 AM
    • #4
    • 15th Apr 19, 9:11 AM
    Is this anything like their guaranteed 5% interest on their current accounts

    We’re not like other banks that give you a high rate then take it away. That rate is there for good

    lol
    • colsten
    • By colsten 15th Apr 19, 9:21 AM
    • 10,142 Posts
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    colsten
    • #5
    • 15th Apr 19, 9:21 AM
    • #5
    • 15th Apr 19, 9:21 AM
    You'd think TSB would have perfected their fraud detection procedures, and their interaction with the NCA, to a T before they made this (Marketing) announcement. As will the other banks who have signed up to the voluntary code which comes into effect in May.

    But this is TSB so it's equally possible they don't actually know what they are doing
    • djpailo
    • By djpailo 15th Apr 19, 9:57 AM
    • 520 Posts
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    djpailo
    • #6
    • 15th Apr 19, 9:57 AM
    • #6
    • 15th Apr 19, 9:57 AM
    Not sure how you can differentiate between people who are genuinely scammed and fraudsters who will inevitably scam this particular service.
    • anotheruser
    • By anotheruser 15th Apr 19, 10:06 AM
    • 2,713 Posts
    • 1,566 Thanks
    anotheruser
    • #7
    • 15th Apr 19, 10:06 AM
    • #7
    • 15th Apr 19, 10:06 AM
    Is this anything like their guaranteed 5% interest on their current accounts

    We’re not like other banks that give you a high rate then take it away. That rate is there for good

    lol
    Originally posted by swindiff
    Define what you think "for good" means?
    Forever?
    Because nothing lasts forever and to (mis)understand the bank when they said "for good" meaning "forever" is stupid.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 15th Apr 19, 10:11 AM
    • 10,090 Posts
    • 12,154 Thanks
    eskbanker
    • #8
    • 15th Apr 19, 10:11 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Apr 19, 10:11 AM
    Is this anything like their guaranteed 5% interest on their current accounts

    We’re not like other banks that give you a high rate then take it away. That rate is there for good

    lol
    Originally posted by swindiff
    Define what you think "for good" means?
    Forever?
    Because nothing lasts forever and to (mis)understand the bank when they said "for good" meaning "forever" is stupid.
    Originally posted by anotheruser
    Hasn't this already been done to death on all the other threads about TSB's rate reduction? I don't really see the need to replay it all on this one that's specifically about their fraud guarantee....
    • JuicyJesus
    • By JuicyJesus 15th Apr 19, 10:27 AM
    • 3,458 Posts
    • 3,917 Thanks
    JuicyJesus
    • #9
    • 15th Apr 19, 10:27 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Apr 19, 10:27 AM
    This is going to be an absolute magnet for first party fraud and I can almost guarantee that this will get walked back very quickly.
    urs sinserly,
    ~~joosy jeezus~~
    • swindiff
    • By swindiff 15th Apr 19, 11:19 AM
    • 496 Posts
    • 252 Thanks
    swindiff
    Define what you think "for good" means?
    Forever?
    Because nothing lasts forever and to (mis)understand the bank when they said "for good" meaning "forever" is stupid.
    Originally posted by anotheruser
    The definition of "for good" means permanent, not my definition by the way. What is stupid is using a term when interpreted correctly using any English dictionary as a reference, turns out to be totally incorrect.
    • nic_c
    • By nic_c 15th Apr 19, 1:13 PM
    • 1,896 Posts
    • 1,015 Thanks
    nic_c
    So are they just complying with the voluntary code early?
    • colsten
    • By colsten 15th Apr 19, 1:23 PM
    • 10,142 Posts
    • 9,287 Thanks
    colsten
    This is going to be an absolute magnet for first party fraud and I can almost guarantee that this will get walked back very quickly.
    Originally posted by JuicyJesus
    some super smart alecs will no doubt already be scheming. Let's brace ourselves for a sharp increase in the "All-my-accounts-got-closed-and-I-can't-get-a-new-one" posts which will no doubt happen when they and their 'victims' got found out.
    • Terry Towelling
    • By Terry Towelling 15th Apr 19, 2:01 PM
    • 1,182 Posts
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    Terry Towelling
    A slight tangent to the issue here.

    Because scams can involve criminals posing as your bank, isn't there a case for implementing something that British Gas did many years ago for gas engineers visiting customers. Customers would ask them for a password (which they had previously set with British Gas). If the engineer didn't know it, they would be refused entry. Surely we could do the same with banking such that when our bank calls us, we can take them through security first and then we can answer their security questions afterwards.
    • Xenon
    • By Xenon 15th Apr 19, 4:56 PM
    • 116 Posts
    • 231 Thanks
    Xenon
    A PR exercise in light of their recent IT meltdowns
    • masonic
    • By masonic 15th Apr 19, 5:30 PM
    • 11,556 Posts
    • 9,196 Thanks
    masonic
    A slight tangent to the issue here.

    Because scams can involve criminals posing as your bank, isn't there a case for implementing something that British Gas did many years ago for gas engineers visiting customers. Customers would ask them for a password (which they had previously set with British Gas). If the engineer didn't know it, they would be refused entry. Surely we could do the same with banking such that when our bank calls us, we can take them through security first and then we can answer their security questions afterwards.
    Originally posted by Terry Towelling
    It's a nice idea, but it requires the scam victims to know enough to challenge the scammers. If they could be educated to do that, they could be educated never to give away information that could be used to authorise a transaction, or transfer money to a 'safe' account, depending on the particular flavour of fraud.

    Some banks do allow you to set up a phone password the bank must give you when calling you. I think I'd still insist on calling them back after ensuring the line was cleared down.
    Last edited by masonic; 15-04-2019 at 5:35 PM.
    • JuicyJesus
    • By JuicyJesus 15th Apr 19, 6:24 PM
    • 3,458 Posts
    • 3,917 Thanks
    JuicyJesus
    A slight tangent to the issue here.

    Because scams can involve criminals posing as your bank, isn't there a case for implementing something that British Gas did many years ago for gas engineers visiting customers. Customers would ask them for a password (which they had previously set with British Gas). If the engineer didn't know it, they would be refused entry. Surely we could do the same with banking such that when our bank calls us, we can take them through security first and then we can answer their security questions afterwards.
    Originally posted by Terry Towelling
    Problem with that is, before they've taken you through security they don't know who you are and as far as they're concerned they could be giving "your" password to a total random.
    urs sinserly,
    ~~joosy jeezus~~
    • masonic
    • By masonic 15th Apr 19, 6:33 PM
    • 11,556 Posts
    • 9,196 Thanks
    masonic
    Problem with that is, before they've taken you through security they don't know who you are and as far as they're concerned they could be giving "your" password to a total random.
    Originally posted by JuicyJesus
    There's no need for it to be done prior to clearing security, which usually involves giving away very little.
    • verybigchris
    • By verybigchris 15th Apr 19, 7:02 PM
    • 490 Posts
    • 733 Thanks
    verybigchris
    If a TSB customer withdraws £200 from an ATM and hands it to a fraudster are they covered by the guarantee? I can't see anything in their info which suggests they aren't.
    • masonic
    • By masonic 15th Apr 19, 7:17 PM
    • 11,556 Posts
    • 9,196 Thanks
    masonic
    If a TSB customer withdraws £200 from an ATM and hands it to a fraudster are they covered by the guarantee? I can't see anything in their info which suggests they aren't.
    Originally posted by verybigchris
    "Obviously, we won’t refund customers if they are involved in committing the fraud."
    • colsten
    • By colsten 15th Apr 19, 7:58 PM
    • 10,142 Posts
    • 9,287 Thanks
    colsten
    Problem with that is, before they've taken you through security they don't know who you are and as far as they're concerned they could be giving "your" password to a total random.
    Originally posted by JuicyJesus
    This could be overcome by asking for some random characters from the password / passcode - - - just like banks ask us for random characters. Mind you, as has already been commented, anyone who could reliably cope with this additional layer of security probably wouldn't be transferring money because "the bank" called them to ask doing so........
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