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    • FreeBear
    • By FreeBear 14th Apr 19, 11:36 PM
    • 2,357 Posts
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    FreeBear
    • #2
    • 14th Apr 19, 11:36 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Apr 19, 11:36 PM
    I've a 20ft x 10ft Victorian kitchen that's stripped down to bare brick. Does anybody know the correct building technique that's required? Does it need a traditional lime based plaster before a skim coat or can plasterboard be applied and then skimmed? The kitchen has an external brick wall and an internal wall, it's a terraced house.

    Would anybody hazard a guess at how long it would take to plaster this type of area and what kind of ball park budget I should be thinking of to board and skim or plaster a room this size including the ceiling?
    Originally posted by gabriel73195

    Solid brick walls - If you don't care about possible damp problems, just dot & dab plasterboard and then skim.


    If you want to maintain breathability of the walls, then I would suggest lining the walls with wood wool boards and coat with lime plaster - The boards would provide a flat surface to plaster on to and give a small amount of insulation. As for cost, I wouldn't like to guess. Much of it would depend on finding a reputable plasterer that has experience of using lime.
    Last edited by FreeBear; 15-04-2019 at 10:22 AM.
    Her courage will change the world.

    Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.
    • kdtvn
    • By kdtvn 15th Apr 19, 2:31 AM
    • 1 Posts
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    kdtvn
    • #3
    • 15th Apr 19, 2:31 AM
    • #3
    • 15th Apr 19, 2:31 AM
    You should use a corrugated iron instead of plasterboard as your idea.
    Last edited by kdtvn; 15-04-2019 at 2:33 AM. Reason: Edit
    • ryanmaryland
    • By ryanmaryland 15th Apr 19, 4:25 AM
    • 15 Posts
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    ryanmaryland
    • #4
    • 15th Apr 19, 4:25 AM
    • #4
    • 15th Apr 19, 4:25 AM
    Both choices have their own strengths. If you have the time and money, the wet plaster would give you a higher quality finish. On the other, the plasterboards are also good, as it can be cut and installed faster than plaster.

    If you want quality then it is better to choose plaster on your Victorian kitchen. Just my opinion.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 15th Apr 19, 8:25 AM
    • 26,619 Posts
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    Doozergirl
    • #5
    • 15th Apr 19, 8:25 AM
    • #5
    • 15th Apr 19, 8:25 AM
    Now the plaster is off, I'd be insulating as well on the external walls!

    We never use wet plaster anymore - haven't done for a long time. We do as freebear describes, but add insulation to external walls.

    If I don't think damp is a risk, then we'll use insulated plasterboard. If I do, then we attach metal gyproc battening studs to the wall, insulate with wool or hemp, attach wood wall boards and then lime over.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • ed110220
    • By ed110220 15th Apr 19, 9:25 AM
    • 1,138 Posts
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    ed110220
    • #6
    • 15th Apr 19, 9:25 AM
    • #6
    • 15th Apr 19, 9:25 AM
    Victorian kitchens tend to have very cold walls due to the solid construction that offers minimal protection from heat loss. Combine that with moisture from cooking and you soon get condensation and mould.

    Definitely insulate the walls while they are bare to prevent this. It's amazing how many people complain about high heating bills, cold walls and condensation, but insulation doesn't cross their minds!
    • FreeBear
    • By FreeBear 15th Apr 19, 10:31 AM
    • 2,357 Posts
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    FreeBear
    • #7
    • 15th Apr 19, 10:31 AM
    • #7
    • 15th Apr 19, 10:31 AM
    Now the plaster is off, I'd be insulating as well on the external walls!
    Originally posted by Doozergirl

    If the work affects more than 25% of the building envelope, then building regulations kick in. Insulating the external walls becomes a necessity to meet the thermal requirements. https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/47/roof/6
    Her courage will change the world.

    Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.
    • Leon W
    • By Leon W 15th Apr 19, 10:50 AM
    • 1,675 Posts
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    Leon W
    • #8
    • 15th Apr 19, 10:50 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Apr 19, 10:50 AM
    In our old kitchen I used Gyproc Thermaline Plus 40mm boards.

    https://www.british-gypsum.com/products/gyproc-thermaline-plus?tab0=1

    Obviously just on the external walls. These were dot and dabbed on with a skim of wet plaster over.

    I've since done every external wall in the upstairs bedrooms and can quite categorically state they are excellent ! The house is much warmer.

    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 16th Apr 19, 6:46 AM
    • 26,619 Posts
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    Doozergirl
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 19, 6:46 AM
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 19, 6:46 AM
    The 25% thing is irrelevant, really. It's a demand but you don't need to calculate it, you just need to insulate because it's silly not to.

    Insulated plasterboard is a thing.
    https://www.roofingoutlet.co.uk/collections/pir-insulated-plasterboard/products/ecotherm-eco-liner-pir-insulated-plasterboard-50-5mm

    That goes on a wall with 'dot and dab'

    For breathability we use these as battens - they don't attract water:
    https://www.buildingmaterials.co.uk/92mm-metal-c-stud?gclid=Cj0KCQjw19DlBRCSARIsAOnfReiTrTnAkYai-tOMDxhFcubcppNZ8ySChpmpjTnzQmEep5KCWDadyA0aAgWIEAL w_wcB
    Stuff with insulation, natural, breathable:
    https://www.mikewye.co.uk/product-category/natural-insulation/
    Attach wood boards:
    https://www.mikewye.co.uk/product/savolit-plus-wood-wool-board/
    And lime plaster:
    https://www.mikewye.co.uk/product-category/lime-products/lime-putty-plaster/

    And yes, it doesn't matter if you're worth 500k or 75k. If the room is susceptible then it's worth doing it properly.

    I have specified it on a few walls in our current project where someone decided to lay a patio five courses above the DPC and then inject a DPC over it, as if that was going to work. We've removed what moisture we can, starting with the patio(!), the floor is breathable but the main affected walls (including some internal where it has tracked through the house) are now lime, to continue to give it time to breathe.

    Everything else, where the house is well above ground level with plenty of subfloor ventilation, we've done modern method because I don't feel it's a risk.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 16th Apr 19, 7:06 AM
    • 27,868 Posts
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    Davesnave
    Is this a real thing or a tongue in cheek kind of thing?
    Originally posted by gabriel73195
    Hard to say, given the location of the poster, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it!
    'I've suffered for my music, now it's your turn.' Neil Innes, introducing 'Protest Song.'
    • Leon W
    • By Leon W 16th Apr 19, 8:39 AM
    • 1,675 Posts
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    Leon W
    Is your house an old house like mine and did you use insulation inbetween the brickwork and the plasterboard? What do you mean by "plus 40mm boards do you mean 40mm thick battens that you fixed the plasterboard to and so you used an airgap as a natural insulator?
    Originally posted by gabriel73195
    Yes it's an old house. Red brick with no damp course.

    What I meant by 40mm boards is that they are 40mm thick. Essentially a piece of ordinary plasterboard but it has a layer of insulation bonded to it.

    This sort of thing https://www.british-gypsum.com/products/gyproc-thermaline-plus?tab0=1

    The boards are available in various thicknesses, with the thicker ones being more expensive but better at insulating ! The more expensive also have a moisture barrier.

    I dot and dabbed these directly onto the red brick and damp hasn't been an issue. As long as the plasterboard part of the board doesn't touch the floor or come into contact with a damp surface they're fine. The insulation part of the board is plastic after all and won't absorb water.

    I used 40mm boards but you can get thinner ones. They just won't be as good but anything is better than nothing.

    If you dot and dab ordinary unlined plasterboard to a damp wall it won't be long before your boards are absorbing all that lovely water !

    • FreeBear
    • By FreeBear 16th Apr 19, 10:33 PM
    • 2,357 Posts
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    FreeBear
    Am I wrong to think that traditionally they just put on the old "Brown Plaster" and then a pink plaster on top of that. I'll have to research it but suffice to say you suggest better not to use plasterboard.

    The walls are double brick with a gap in the middle so does this make a difference. No I definitely don't want to risk damp at all.
    by gabriel73195;75709380?

    "Traditional (lime) plaster" is usually a white or cream colour. "Brown plaster" with a layer of pink over the top is common or garden gypsum plaster done the "old way". The current trend is (gypsum) plasterboard with either a coating of drywall mud or pink plaster.


    As you have cavity walls, insulated plasterboard would be suitable as penetrating damp shouldn't be an issue - If you can get hold of one, a camera poked through a hole in the wall would be a good idea. Gives you a chance to see if there is any debris in the cavity that might cause problems.
    Last edited by FreeBear; 17-04-2019 at 10:57 AM.
    Her courage will change the world.

    Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.
    • Leon W
    • By Leon W 17th Apr 19, 7:31 AM
    • 1,675 Posts
    • 1,121 Thanks
    Leon W
    that sounds like a really good solution! Did you do this yourself or did a builder do it for you? Did someone tell you that this is a good way of doing it?
    It's funny but I get more information from this site about how to do a job properly than from the standard trades I've spoken to.
    I come here first and learn how to do it the right way and then see which tradesman agrees.
    Originally posted by gabriel73195
    No, I didn't use a builder. It's a simple (if dusty) DIY job.

    As you are doing now, I researched various options and opinions and as you are finding, they can all vary !

    My house is a bit of a Frankenstein really as it is now a detached 3 bed cottage but used to be two, two up two down Victorian redbricks knocked together. There is no damp course and when I bought it it was virtually impossible to heat and had no insulation with a serious black mould problem !

    Using the method above I have been through the whole house insulating outside walls with Gyproc Thermaline boards. Easy to cut and just dot and dabbed on with bonding compound. I guess if your walls are nice and flat you could use a notched trowel to apply the bonding (like a tile)? Downstairs walls were back to the brick and upstairs walls I stuck on over existing plasterwork. The boards are tapered on the edges so it is possible to scrim tape the joints, fill over, rub down and paint but I got a plasterer to just give them a skim over for a perfect finish.

    Of all the options this one worked best for me. I'd thought of battening and using a rockwool type insulation and boarding over, that but with damp walls it's pretty useless using wooden battens, and you loose a lot of space internally making your rooms smaller !

    Although Gyproc Thermaline boards are expensive depending on what thickness and spec you choose, if you shop around they are cheaper in bulk (think I used Ebay !) and they worked out a lot cheaper than an aluminium battening system and probably less time consuming.

    A few years on now and I have no issues with internal damp at all, the boards are still on the walls, not even a crack on the joints (I did properly scrim tape them though) and after thoroughly insulating the roof the house is a lot warmer and no black mould either !

    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 17th Apr 19, 9:45 PM
    • 26,619 Posts
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    Doozergirl
    We're not suggesting insulation because it's quicker. We're suggesting insulation because it's warmer and better for lower heating bills! But it is quicker.

    This is the 21st century, not the 19th.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • FreeBear
    • By FreeBear 17th Apr 19, 10:23 PM
    • 2,357 Posts
    • 3,199 Thanks
    FreeBear
    So if we turned the clock back 100 years and you and I were plasterers FreeBear would we put brown plaster straight onto the brickwork with lime mixed into it then put one or two additional coates which were gradually thinner?
    Originally posted by gabriel73195

    As I said in an earlier post, brown plaster is a modern gypsum plaster, as is the pink stuff. One does not mix lime in to either.
    True lime plaster is a completely different product - A quick guide to its application can be found here - https://www.mikewye.co.uk/guidesheets/lime-plastering/
    Her courage will change the world.

    Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.
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