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  • FIRST POST
    • jem16
    • By jem16 14th Apr 19, 12:33 PM
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    jem16
    Advice on new combi boiler
    • #1
    • 14th Apr 19, 12:33 PM
    Advice on new combi boiler 14th Apr 19 at 12:33 PM
    I currently have a Vokera Linea 28 boiler which will be 20 years old later this year. I am considering getting a new boiler installed.

    I was under the impression that Worcester-Bosch boilers were always a good recommendation but further reading seems to be suggesting that they're not as good as they were. Is this accurate?

    If so what boilers should I be looking at?

    My other questions was what smart thermostat should I look at. If it was a Worcester Bosch boiler then Wave or Hive?
    Last edited by jem16; 14-04-2019 at 12:36 PM.
Page 1
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 15th Apr 19, 3:43 PM
    • 3,983 Posts
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    foxy-stoat
    • #2
    • 15th Apr 19, 3:43 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Apr 19, 3:43 PM
    I would get a few heating engineers in to give you a quote for your property, based on your needs.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 16th Apr 19, 7:53 AM
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    Cardew
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 19, 7:53 AM
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 19, 7:53 AM
    It is worth investing £1, or a trip to the library, to get the very comprehensive Which report on boilers.


    Last time I looked Worcester Bosch and Veissman were best buy. I bought two Veissman - a main boiler and a Combi for an annex - and have a 10 year warranty on both.


    The problem with getting heating engineer reports is they tend to recommend those on which they get the best deal, or most familiar with fitting
    Last edited by Cardew; 16-04-2019 at 7:56 AM.
    • thorganby
    • By thorganby 16th Apr 19, 8:23 AM
    • 209 Posts
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    thorganby
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 19, 8:23 AM
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 19, 8:23 AM
    Very surprised to see that Which have Worcester Bosch boilers as a best buy.

    Yes they are very common because companies such as BG and Boxt fit them but most gas safe fitters don't rate them as they are difficult to work on and they have many plastic parts that fail prematurely.

    Don't Which always rate Utility Warehouse highly and we all know that they are certainly not a best buy!

    Personally I would not take too much notice of Which reports.

    Consider the following well regarded boilers:

    ATAG "10 year warranty as standard for all parts and labour" https://atagheating.co.uk/

    Valiant "up to 10 years on the ecoTEC plus (upto 45kW) and ecoTEC exclusive with green iQ ranges when installed with our brand new boiler protection kit" https://www.vaillant.co.uk/homeowners/

    Viessmann "Many of our boilers come with a comprehensive 5 year parts and labour warranty, as standard. With other boilers, you have the option to extend this if it is installed by a Viessmann Trained Installer" https://www.viessmann.co.uk

    Intergas "You can extend your warranty on your Intergas boiler for up to five more years" - varies by model 6 to 10 years https://www.intergasheating.co.uk/
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 16th Apr 19, 12:05 PM
    • 27,804 Posts
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    Cardew
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 19, 12:05 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 19, 12:05 PM
    Don't Which always rate Utility Warehouse highly and we all know that they are certainly not a best buy!

    Personally I would not take too much notice of Which reports.
    Originally posted by thorganby
    '

    WHICH have a reader's survey for gas/electricity which is a whole lot different from a 'BEST BUY' awarded after tests. With some 25,000 Utility Warehouse 'salesmen' - and their families - with a vested interest in voting for UW it is not surprising they come out top of any such survey. It is much like the current bad publicity about. 5* ratings on Amazon and Trustpilot.
    • thorganby
    • By thorganby 16th Apr 19, 1:08 PM
    • 209 Posts
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    thorganby
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:08 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:08 PM
    '

    WHICH have a reader's survey for gas/electricity which is a whole lot different from a 'BEST BUY' awarded after tests. With some 25,000 Utility Warehouse 'salesmen' - and their families - with a vested interest in voting for UW it is not surprising they come out top of any such survey. It is much like the current bad publicity about. 5* ratings on Amazon and Trustpilot.
    Originally posted by Cardew
    Yes point taken about the Which reader's surveys, I used to subscribe to Which for many years and over that time I found that when they reviewed items that I had bought and had personal experience of, they marked them down for the most trivial of reasons and I realised that their "Best Buys" did not agree with my opinions.

    I have personal experience of Worcester Bosch boilers and if it is not a simple fix most local gas fitters are not interested and recommend that you get a manufacturers fixed price repair as the parts are expensive and they don't like working on them.

    Some people may swear by them but most gas fitters swear at them and I don't want to be forced to pay the manufacturers servicing costs.

    Any manufacturer that gives a 10 year warranty for all parts and labour as standard gets my vote and I would not have a Worcester Bosch again.
    • Londoner_1
    • By Londoner_1 16th Apr 19, 1:54 PM
    • 135 Posts
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    Londoner_1
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:54 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 19, 1:54 PM
    All boilers are as good as the install.

    Having said that you want to install boilers that will be around in 20 years time.

    My old WB240 RSF was installed in 1997 according to the paperwork, the last service was about 5 years ago, since 2004 i have called out an engineer twice, one time in 2008 diverter valve and one time in 2015 when the filling loop bybassed and popped the prv.

    After the diverter valve was changed the boiler had a small leak, after a week it stopped leaking.

    After the PRV change, the boiler refused to work, the reason why it refused to work was the engineer was a valiant chap, not famuiliar with older WB boilers. The fix was to simply let out the air form the pump.

    The boiler will be replaced when we have works done to the house.
    Last edited by Londoner_1; 16-04-2019 at 2:00 PM.
    • jem16
    • By jem16 16th Apr 19, 4:03 PM
    • 18,662 Posts
    • 11,463 Thanks
    jem16
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 19, 4:03 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 19, 4:03 PM
    ATAG "10 year warranty as standard for all parts and labour" https://atagheating.co.uk/

    Valiant "up to 10 years on the ecoTEC plus (upto 45kW) and ecoTEC exclusive with green iQ ranges when installed with our brand new boiler protection kit" https://www.vaillant.co.uk/homeowners/

    Viessmann "Many of our boilers come with a comprehensive 5 year parts and labour warranty, as standard. With other boilers, you have the option to extend this if it is installed by a Viessmann Trained Installer" https://www.viessmann.co.uk

    Intergas "You can extend your warranty on your Intergas boiler for up to five more years" - varies by model 6 to 10 years https://www.intergasheating.co.uk/
    Originally posted by thorganby
    Thanks. I have now spoken to a local installer who is an accredited installer for Viessmann. We will arrange a time to get a quote.

    Over the phone he also told me to take a look at Atag which he seems to rate highly.

    We'll see what he says when he comes out.

    Any thoughts on smart controllers? Should I go with the manufacturer's smart controller ( assuming they do one ) or look at Nest or Hive?
    • jem16
    • By jem16 16th Apr 19, 4:05 PM
    • 18,662 Posts
    • 11,463 Thanks
    jem16
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 19, 4:05 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 19, 4:05 PM
    Any manufacturer that gives a 10 year warranty for all parts and labour as standard gets my vote and I would not have a Worcester Bosch again.
    Originally posted by thorganby
    The Worcester Bosch boilers give a 10 year warranty so long as it's fitted via an accredited installer. Yet you would still give it a miss?
    • jem16
    • By jem16 16th Apr 19, 4:07 PM
    • 18,662 Posts
    • 11,463 Thanks
    jem16
    All boilers are as good as the install.

    Having said that you want to install boilers that will be around in 20 years time.
    Originally posted by Londoner_1
    It appears that the new condensing boilers don't last as long as previous ones.

    So far I've been getting some strange looks when I say that my Vokera will be 20 years old this November.
    • jem16
    • By jem16 16th Apr 19, 4:08 PM
    • 18,662 Posts
    • 11,463 Thanks
    jem16
    '

    WHICH have a reader's survey for gas/electricity which is a whole lot different from a 'BEST BUY' awarded after tests. With some 25,000 Utility Warehouse 'salesmen' - and their families - with a vested interest in voting for UW it is not surprising they come out top of any such survey. It is much like the current bad publicity about. 5* ratings on Amazon and Trustpilot.
    Originally posted by Cardew
    Thanks Cardew - it's maybe worth the £1 to access the reports.
    • MancJonny
    • By MancJonny 16th Apr 19, 4:20 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 80 Thanks
    MancJonny
    When fitting a new boiler for me 2 years back, my gas fitter advised that, although the new boilers are more energy efficient than the old ones, the parts in them don't last as long and therefore need replacing more often. So, in the long term, what you save in bills you may well have to cough up for in replacement parts.

    Also, a programme on BBC Radio 4 recently said that combi boilers will be being phased-out from about 2025 ( I think). It's all to do with reducing fossil fuels.
    • Brexit Fan
    • By Brexit Fan 16th Apr 19, 4:28 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Brexit Fan
    The Worcester Bosch boilers give a 10 year warranty so long as it's fitted via an accredited installer. Yet you would still give it a miss?
    Originally posted by jem16
    You will probably find to satisfy the terms of the 10 year warranty, you will need to get it serviced every year.

    You might do this anyway, but if you don't, £75 a year or so for the next 10 years will cost you another £750.
    Climate change is natural. It always has occurred. It always will. Beware of the Green lunatics who want to waste YOUR money and mine.
    • jem16
    • By jem16 16th Apr 19, 5:04 PM
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    • 11,463 Thanks
    jem16
    You will probably find to satisfy the terms of the 10 year warranty, you will need to get it serviced every year.

    You might do this anyway, but if you don't, £75 a year or so for the next 10 years will cost you another £750.
    Originally posted by Brexit Fan
    The annual service seems to be the case with all warranties.
    • thorganby
    • By thorganby 16th Apr 19, 5:40 PM
    • 209 Posts
    • 169 Thanks
    thorganby
    Thanks. I have now spoken to a local installer who is an accredited installer for Viessmann. We will arrange a time to get a quote.

    Over the phone he also told me to take a look at Atag which he seems to rate highly.

    We'll see what he says when he comes out.

    Any thoughts on smart controllers? Should I go with the manufacturer's smart controller ( assuming they do one ) or look at Nest or Hive?
    Originally posted by jem16
    Probably best to make a decision about the boiler manufacturer first and then decide on a control system that meets your requirements, which may or not be from the boiler manufacturer e.g. ATAG https://atagheating.co.uk/product-list/accessories/controllers/

    The Worcester Bosch boilers give a 10 year warranty so long as it's fitted via an accredited installer. Yet you would still give it a miss?
    Originally posted by jem16
    Are you sure about a 10 year warrantee?

    We are pleased to announce that we have extended our guarantee promotion

    Published: 01-10-2018

    The great thing about a guarantee is that it is legally binding and adds to your rights under consumer law. Legally, a boiler must come with a minimum of 2 years cover, but here at Worcester Bosch we offer 5 years as standard. But until the 31st March 2019 we are going even further for our customers.

    We are pleased to announce that we have extended our guarantee promotion. Homeowners across the UK and Ireland will be able to benefit from up to a 7 year guarantee on our range of award winning gas boilers when installed with our Worcester Bosch Greenstar filter. Plus, if you choose a Worcester Bosch Accredited Installer from our website, then you will even be able to benefit from up to a 10 year guarantee.
    Yes I would not recommend a WB where the warantee depends on offers and conditions - the last repair required the boiler to be completely disconnected and removed from the wall to get access to replace the failed part and this made it a two man job. Better boilers are now available that last longer.

    The annual service seems to be the case with all warranties.
    Originally posted by jem16
    Agreed all require an annual service e.g. as stated by ATAG:
    Keeping your warranty valid

    Our 10 year warranty is a guarantee of excellence that we’re very proud of. However, to keep your warranty valid, and in the interest of safety, all we ask is you have your boiler serviced annually by a Gas Safe Registered engineer.
    • jem16
    • By jem16 16th Apr 19, 6:04 PM
    • 18,662 Posts
    • 11,463 Thanks
    jem16

    Probably best to make a decision about the boiler manufacturer first and then decide on a control system that meets your requirements, which may or not be from the boiler manufacturer e.g. ATAG https://atagheating.co.uk/product-list/accessories/controllers/
    Originally posted by thorganby
    With Worcester Wave, the warranty also covered the controller whereas using Hive/Nest would only give 2 year warranty.

    I can't find any info on whether or not the warranty on Atag also covers the controller or not. Do you know?


    Are you sure about a 10 year warrantee?
    Yes but with the condition of the Magneto filter as you posted. I expect that this makes it slightly dearer though.

    We are pleased to announce that we have extended our guarantee promotion. Homeowners across the UK and Ireland will be able to benefit from up to a 7 year guarantee on our range of award winning gas boilers when installed with our Worcester Bosch Greenstar filter. Plus, if you choose a Worcester Bosch Accredited Installer from our website, then you will even be able to benefit from up to a 10 year guarantee.
    Yes I would not recommend a WB where the warantee depends on offers and conditions - the last repair required the boiler to be completely disconnected and removed from the wall to get access to replace the failed part and this made it a two man job. Better boilers are now available that last longer.
    Originally posted by thorganby
    Fair enough.

    The Atag range of boilers look good. TrustPilot reviews almost seem too good to be true - can I trust them?
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 16th Apr 19, 6:36 PM
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    Cardew
    A big advantage of Veissmann boilers for some people is how quiet they are in operation - at least compared to my old boilers.


    This may be of interest:


    https://boilerhut.co.uk/worcester-bosch-vs-viessmann/
    • macman
    • By macman 17th Apr 19, 12:09 AM
    • 43,248 Posts
    • 18,421 Thanks
    macman
    Another vote for Viessmann. Mine came with a 5 year warranty which I extended to 10 for an extra £100. It's been in two years now and performs very well.
    The prospect of new gas domestic installs being phased out by 2025 is just laughable. What does the government think is going to power all the additional generating capacity that will be needed to heat many more all-electric homes? It's not going to be nuclear.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • thorganby
    • By thorganby 17th Apr 19, 7:46 AM
    • 209 Posts
    • 169 Thanks
    thorganby
    With Worcester Wave, the warranty also covered the controller whereas using Hive/Nest would only give 2 year warranty.

    I can't find any info on whether or not the warranty on Atag also covers the controller or not. Do you know?
    Originally posted by jem16
    I suggest that you call their freephone number 0800 680 0100 to clarify exactly what is covered on their various controller options.

    Yes but with the condition of the Magneto filter as you posted. I expect that this makes it slightly dearer though.
    Originally posted by jem16
    If I am reading their website correctly the WB extended promotion ended on the 31st March 2019 as I posted above.

    https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/about/news/we-are-pleased-to-announce-that-we-have-extended-our-guarantee-promotion


    Fair enough.

    The Atag range of boilers look good. TrustPilot reviews almost seem too good to be true - can I trust them?
    Originally posted by jem16
    I never look at Trust Pilot reviews and it obviously has to be your choice but you can easily choose a far better boiler than a common or garden, second rate Worcester Bosch.

    Please read this before making your decision http://www.sortedgas.co.uk/boilers
    • jem16
    • By jem16 17th Apr 19, 9:30 AM
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    • 11,463 Thanks
    jem16
    A big advantage of Veissmann boilers for some people is how quiet they are in operation - at least compared to my old boilers.
    Originally posted by Cardew
    As the boiler will be in the garage, noise or lack of, probably won't be an issue.


    Thanks.
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