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  • FIRST POST
    • JRogers
    • By JRogers 13th Apr 19, 10:08 AM
    • 1Posts
    • 0Thanks
    JRogers
    Refund for Conservatory??
    • #1
    • 13th Apr 19, 10:08 AM
    Refund for Conservatory?? 13th Apr 19 at 10:08 AM
    On Thursday, I had a conservatory fitted. About lunchtime I noticed that the roof was not the material that I wanted. I immediately made the team aware but was told it could be sorted, but they would fit what there so that the builders could complete the works inside the conservatory but they would come back and replace the roof.

    The problem is that I have now been told that the frame is not compatible with the type of roof that I want.

    It is complicated issue. When the manufacturer came round to measure up we discussed options. I said I wanted a clear roof so I could see up the garden (the garden slopes up behind my house) from the kitchen. I also said I wanted the cheaper option and didn't need self cleaning glass. The manufacture representative (he is the owner) said that CLEAR poly carbonate would be a great cheap option. Now I did not know what poly-carbonate was and he DID NOT show me what it was like in a brochure or in a sample. He just said it was clear which I in my naivety took to mean glass like. The only picture I received from him was a line drawing showing the windows and the beams going down the roof. It did not show what poly carbonate look like or provide any information on what it was.

    There was no contract signing or offer of cooling off period, which I thought was odd but had my windows in the house done by the same company and I am really happy with those so proceeded.

    Whilst me and partner were away on holiday, I received a text from my builder who had first put in my touch with the glazing representative saying that he had asked for payment. I said I couldn't as was away on holiday, so my builder paid the glazing representative in my absence.

    Back to my current situation, I have been left with a conservatory that I do not want. I feel that it was not at all explained to me what I was purchasing so feel that I have been mis sold a product. And its seem unlikely that the frame that has been installed can be used to hold a clear glass roof. I have spoken to to other glazing companies and have been told that the frames are incompatible with glass panels.

    I do not want to pay for the conservatory, as it is not at all what I wanted or expected. But equally my builder is currently over 5,000 out of pocket as has paid for it. Is my builder able to ask for a refund/force a refund?

    The glazing representative promised to come back to me with a solution but I haven't heard anything. I do not want to and cannot pay for two conservatories. I have said I will pay the difference in price for glass, but if the frame cannot hold the glass then I would have to order a whole new frame.

    I don't want to pay for it until it is sorted (if it can be sorted) but that leaves my builder (who I have no issue with) severely out of pocket. I don't know if it is possible to claim a refund as I was told it would be poly carbonate, but I was not made aware of what poly carbonate actually is!

    I have asked for a detailed invoice (which I haven't received), as I am happy to pay for the windows and door that was supplied along with the roof, but do not want to pay for the roof or frame until it is how I wanted and asked for (a clear conservatory roof).

    Am left with a unfinished conservatory that I hate, my builder is left over 5,000 out of pocket, and the glazing company hasn't got back to me.

    Any advice, ways forward, solutions, most welcome please. Thank you
Page 1
    • stator
    • By stator 13th Apr 19, 10:43 AM
    • 7,119 Posts
    • 4,900 Thanks
    stator
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 19, 10:43 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 19, 10:43 AM
    You need to pay the builder. It's not his fault. You asked him to pay them, so just pay him. Paying the builder will not affect your claims against the glazing company.



    The only thing you can do is to put in a complaint with the glazing company and hope that they want to keep their customers happy. Since you agreed to what they said they would install and they installed what they said they were going to, you don't have any legal basis.
    There is no such thing as miss-selling double glazing or conservatories.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 13th Apr 19, 12:54 PM
    • 3,461 Posts
    • 4,671 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 19, 12:54 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 19, 12:54 PM
    I agree with stator. Your first port of call is to pay your builder. You say you do not want to pay for the conservatory but you have done so, using the builder as your agent. I presume the builder will have record of your instruction to pay so if you start mucking him about he'll be chasing you for the money.

    You then need to take up the case with the glazing company but I'm afraid I don't think you have a case. You had ample opportunity to pause the sales process and to do a little research into polycarbonate versus glass roofs but chose to take their words at face value, place the order and proceed anyway. That's not mis-selling, that's negligent buying.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 13th Apr 19, 1:17 PM
    • 10,819 Posts
    • 12,264 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 19, 1:17 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 19, 1:17 PM
    I said I wanted a clear roof so I could see up the garden (the garden slopes up behind my house) from the kitchen. I also said I wanted the cheaper option and didn't need self cleaning glass. The manufacture representative (he is the owner) said that CLEAR poly carbonate would be a great cheap option.
    Originally posted by JRogers
    Personally, I think that you don't have a very strong case here.
    You stated that you wanted a clear roof and this is what you were given.
    You said that you wanted the cheaper option and of the two types of roofing materials available, polycarbonate is the cheaper option and you said that you didn't want self cleaning glass and you didn't get this.
    • cajef
    • By cajef 13th Apr 19, 3:19 PM
    • 4,945 Posts
    • 4,010 Thanks
    cajef
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 19, 3:19 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 19, 3:19 PM
    And its seem unlikely that the frame that has been installed can be used to hold a clear glass roof. I have spoken to to other glazing companies and have been told that the frames are incompatible with glass panels.

    Any advice, ways forward, solutions, most welcome please. Thank you
    Originally posted by JRogers
    The conservatory main frame the side walls will not need changing, it is the roof frame that will not support the weight of a glass roof also the thickness of sealed glass units are not the same as polycarbonate units, the roof frame will need changing to hold the different thickness and weight, by trying to do it cheap it will end up costing you more.

    We had ours done two years ago the cost was just under 2,000 including VAT.
    Last edited by cajef; 13-04-2019 at 3:27 PM.
    I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.
    • ytfcmad
    • By ytfcmad 13th Apr 19, 8:00 PM
    • 279 Posts
    • 128 Thanks
    ytfcmad
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 19, 8:00 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 19, 8:00 PM
    The conservatory main frame the side walls will not need changing, it is the roof frame that will not support the weight of a glass roof also the thickness of sealed glass units are not the same as polycarbonate units, the roof frame will need changing to hold the different thickness and weight, by trying to do it cheap it will end up costing you more.

    We had ours done two years ago the cost was just under 2,000 including VAT.
    Originally posted by cajef
    Incorrect, glass DGU's can be made to many thickness's so that's not an issue and Polycarb does not come as a unit.

    The roof may not need changing, someone needs to talk to the Systems company and find out what its been tested too, they will know the weights of all the DGU make ups but two bits of 4mm will of course be the lightest

    Incorrect again, the side walls shoulder the weight.

    PS, dont take any notice of anyone who doesnt know what they are talking about.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 13th Apr 19, 11:12 PM
    • 26,604 Posts
    • 71,429 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 19, 11:12 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 19, 11:12 PM

    PS, dont take any notice of anyone who doesnt know what they are talking about.
    Originally posted by ytfcmad
    Genius, in hindsight!

    I completely agree, but how does one seeking advice know who doesn't know what they're talking about, given that the person asking doesn't know either?
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 14th Apr 19, 1:01 AM
    • 27,863 Posts
    • 99,004 Thanks
    Davesnave
    • #8
    • 14th Apr 19, 1:01 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Apr 19, 1:01 AM
    Seems there were a few mistakes here, the largest being no written contract.

    If there was only a verbal contract, it won't be clear (pardon the pun!) who agreed to what. It's a 'He said, she said' situation, which will be much harder to resolve.

    When I had a similar sort of dispute with a conservatory company, the clincher was that they'd broken the T&C in their contract. So, I didn't pay them for the work I wasn't happy with, and they didn't sue me because they knew their own contract had been breached.


    Secondly, you authorised the builder to pay for something you hadn't seen or approved. This was wrong. The sky would not have fallen in if you'd told everyone to wait till you returned from holiday, though frankly I'd never go away while anyone was working on my property.
    'I've suffered for my music, now it's your turn.' Neil Innes, introducing 'Protest Song.'
    • PurAsc
    • By PurAsc 16th Apr 19, 11:20 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    PurAsc
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 19, 11:20 AM
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 19, 11:20 AM
    Without a written contract, it will be difficult for your builder to claim any sort of refund I would have thought because the company who installed your unwanted roof has no legal obligation to pay the money back. The glazing company is also not obligated to inform you of what polycarbonate is. If they told you it was going to be polycarbonate and you agreed to it without bothering to find out what it was first, I would have to agree with some of the comments above that this item was bought without proper consideration.

    Were you supplied with any written proof that the roof was fitted by this glazing company? A bit of a long shot but there might be something in there that entitles you to a refund of some sort.

    Otherwise, your only option might be to pay for the new conservatory roof. Glass roofs are heavier than polycarbonate ones and tend to cost more so there's a chance some alterations might need to be made to the framing or the overall conservatory structure. Check with a number of glazing companies and see what their thoughts/prices are for this.
    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 16th Apr 19, 8:01 PM
    • 3,530 Posts
    • 2,260 Thanks
    Ectophile
    There is polycarbonate, and there's polycarbonate.


    It sounds like what the OP has is twinwall or triple wall polycarbonate. Two or three thin sheets of plastic with air gaps in between. That lets light through, but you can't really see through it.


    There is also sheet polycarbonate, as used for riot shields and the like. That comes in clear sheets which look like glass, but are lighter in weight. They are transparent, just like glass, until they get too many years of sunlight, when they go yellow and cloudy.
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
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