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  • FIRST POST
    • imjustanonymous
    • By imjustanonymous 4th Apr 19, 10:06 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 8Thanks
    imjustanonymous
    What are my chances for appealing
    • #1
    • 4th Apr 19, 10:06 PM
    What are my chances for appealing 4th Apr 19 at 10:06 PM
    Dear All,

    New to this forum, got here by searching the company's name that sent me a Notice to Keeper letter to my address and never knowing anything about this.

    The parking companys name is Capital Car Park Control, apparently they are a member of the BPA as they have a logo on the top of the letter sent to me but its very pixelated?

    The date of notice is March of 2019, so far a week has gone as ive been ill to do anything about it.

    The location of incident was north greenwich, the time they have stated was between 14:17 to 14:31, im not sure if they have any grace period or anything or not

    So what happened that day is i took my sister to a hospital in central london, on the way back i took a detour to my university, my sister suffers from asthma and at that time she had not been given an asthma pump so i had to in an emergency, park the car and go to the local chemist where i purchased one, my sister is disabled so i used the disabled badge that day to quickly jump out of the car and get her pump, i had to go back to get her because the chemist needed to see her. I hadnt realised where i had parked at the time because i was panicking. When getting back into the car i realised all the cars parked behind me were using disabled badges also, there was a employee from the local building who said it was okay to park there so i felt more at ease. I had no idea that i couldnt park there until this letter arrived at my doorstep

    They have asked the keeper to pay 100 because the redcuded discount is out of the 14 day period but i was never left with any ticket on my car?? So how could i have known? The other cars behind me didnt have any tickets either. Also on top of the letter there are two pictures showing the car but no tickets left on the car? i thought a picture was always taken to show the ticket left on the car

    In the letter it says the reason for the ticket is due to parking in a permit holder only area without displaying a valid permit

    My questions are for help, are these:

    If i appeal and explain the situation, would they be compassionate and atleast consider the reduced discount again? or maybe drop it. I have about 20 days left to appeal or make payment

    If i dont pay and keep appealing, will i have bailiffs at my house as they have said they will send them? or will i be called to court?

    I do have proof of receipt of purchasing the inhaler and the appointment letter, will any of this help my appeal any stronger?

    I apologise if i have posted with too much information or too little, any advice or help will be very appreciated

    Thanks all
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Apr 19, 8:15 PM
    • 70,394 Posts
    • 82,989 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    If i appeal ( which i am in the process of now) will i get a POPLA code
    Yes, they have to provide one in the rejection letter or email.

    No need to ask - that's why the template appeal in the NEWBIES thread doesn't ask.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • imjustanonymous
    • By imjustanonymous 10th Apr 19, 10:46 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    imjustanonymous
    Yes, they have to provide one in the rejection letter or email.

    No need to ask - that's why the template appeal in the NEWBIES thread doesn't ask.
    Thanks for telling me that

    I have sent an appeal with the template that was in the NEWBIES post, they said they will reply within 35 days and freeze it for the time being

    I have emailed my landowner explaining the situation and asking them to hear me out and to kindly cancel the PCN but they have said they cant do anything about this, apparently the dispute is with the parking company and where i parked, is a place where they dont have control over?

    I also emailed my local MP, seems as if it went to the general inbox and i was called by someone in the office who gave me another email to forward to but they said that the MP has very little power in parking fines and disputes, i did mention the legislation someone on here informed me about but they said it might not be enough

    Im panicking slightly now because i dont know what to do or who to now contact

    Is there anything else i can do?
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 10th Apr 19, 11:26 AM
    • 465 Posts
    • 845 Thanks
    MistyZ
    I have emailed my landowner explaining the situation and asking them to hear me out and to kindly cancel the PCN but they have said they cant do anything about this, apparently the dispute is with the parking company and where i parked, is a place where they dont have control over?
    Originally posted by imjustanonymous
    Well someone owns or manages that land and therefore will have control over the PPC's actions on that land.

    So either the person you emailed is telling porkies, or they are not the landowner.

    Perhaps you should ask the businesses that are most definitely served by the car park who the landowner is, to double-check the information you've been given.

    Can you tell us which car park this is?

    I would really lay it all on the line in a complaint. And therefore, if you do find out that you have been fobbed off and need to email the same company, go to the head honcho and patiently explain that PPCs do not take mitigating circumstances into consideration and given these really very serious mitigating circumstances you must insist that they cancel the charge.
    Last edited by MistyZ; 10-04-2019 at 11:30 AM.
    • imjustanonymous
    • By imjustanonymous 10th Apr 19, 5:00 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    imjustanonymous
    Well someone owns or manages that land and therefore will have control over the PPC's actions on that land.

    So either the person you emailed is telling porkies, or they are not the landowner.

    Perhaps you should ask the businesses that are most definitely served by the car park who the landowner is, to double-check the information you've been given.

    Can you tell us which car park this is?

    I would really lay it all on the line in a complaint. And therefore, if you do find out that you have been fobbed off and need to email the same company, go to the head honcho and patiently explain that PPCs do not take mitigating circumstances into consideration and given these really very serious mitigating circumstances you must insist that they cancel the charge.
    Knight Dragon own the Greenwich peninsula, for where i got my ticket supposedly, Capital car park control manage that area, i called the Knight dragon number who forwarded me to the Upper Riverside concierge, they were the ones who told me that they wouldnt be able to deal with the issue

    https://www.google.com/maps/@51.500444,0.0067368,3a,60y,57.49h,80.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ2wz50vQt-BZff_yA34QTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    This is a link of the map where i had parked in the emergency situation, there is a car park next to it which i use whenever i go university but they were full that day, because im on that bay bit on that road, apparently only the company who issued me the ticket can resolve it, according to the concierge

    As you can see, in the image, on the right hand side of the bay there are Disabled badge bays but due to construction work, that whole side has been suspended and actually been used for containers there, meaning there was only the other side to park on, but even then, the signage says no disabled parking allowed? Or am i to assume that, where i had parked, is no disabled badge parking allowed and only on the other side? But then again that other side was not there for me to use at the time
    Last edited by imjustanonymous; 10-04-2019 at 5:18 PM. Reason: missed information
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 10th Apr 19, 6:56 PM
    • 465 Posts
    • 845 Thanks
    MistyZ
    What, or who, is the Upper Riverside concierge? Is it a person or an organisation? Or a fancy sandwich?

    I suspect it's Knight Dragon you need to complain to. You need an email address though & I'm trying to find one. Can you find anything for them other than the telephone number?

    To be honest, I would just email the highest ranking person I could find an email address for in Knight Dragon. Add a sentence like: 'I apologise if my email has reached the wrong department, if this is the case I would be grateful if you would forward it to the appropriate person.'
    Last edited by MistyZ; 10-04-2019 at 9:18 PM.
    • imjustanonymous
    • By imjustanonymous 10th Apr 19, 10:49 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    imjustanonymous
    .
    What, or who, is the Upper Riverside concierge? Is it a person or an organisation? Or a fancy sandwich?

    I suspect it's Knight Dragon you need to complain to. You need an email address though & I'm trying to find one. Can you find anything for them other than the telephone number?

    To be honest, I would just email the highest ranking person I could find an email address for in Knight Dragon. Add a sentence like: 'I apologise if my email has reached the wrong department, if this is the case I would be grateful if you would forward it to the appropriate person.'
    The peninsula is split into upper and lower Riverside, I'm assuming that since I got my ticket next to the upper Riverside concierge office, that's where they sent me to because it seemed sense to them

    The only email address i can find for Knight Dragon is this info@knightdragon.com

    Other than that email, no other email is relevant or working

    I should probably just try and right to this email and see what they say, added with your apology sentence, hopefully they send me to the right department

    One other thing I found out, the chemist that I went to, told me they are managed by CBRE, some real estate agents who own the building they use but the land is still from Knight Dragon, maybe I should try ask CBRE if they can give me a more direct email for the head honcho?
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 11th Apr 19, 8:59 AM
    • 465 Posts
    • 845 Thanks
    MistyZ
    The plot thickens!

    There is no harm in sending your email to several recipients, including CBRE. Looks to me as if it is a little harder to find an actual body to email in London than elsewhere - so cast your net wide.

    I've had a PCN cancelled by CBRE as it happens ... though in a different town.

    My thoughts at the time was that they were too big to care but they were quite approachable. Initially I emailed the wrong person at CBRE and they responded saying they'd passed it on to the person responsible for the car park. I get things wrong all the time and only succeed by persevering!
    Last edited by MistyZ; 11-04-2019 at 9:53 AM.
    • imjustanonymous
    • By imjustanonymous 11th Apr 19, 2:52 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    imjustanonymous
    The plot thickens!

    There is no harm in sending your email to several recipients, including CBRE. Looks to me as if it is a little harder to find an actual body to email in London than elsewhere - so cast your net wide.

    I've had a PCN cancelled by CBRE as it happens ... though in a different town.

    My thoughts at the time was that they were too big to care but they were quite approachable. Initially I emailed the wrong person at CBRE and they responded saying they'd passed it on to the person responsible for the car park. I get things wrong all the time and only succeed by persevering!
    Currently trying to find an email for CBRE, seems as if they have just numbers, I did call them to verify who the estate agent/owner is of the peninsula and they have confirmed it's Knight Dragon, but they seem to be sending me in circles also

    Trying to send as many emails as I can to a place where the right person can respond to me, not sure if CBRE would be able to get the pc cancelled but they could back me with support I hope

    I shall persevere too!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Apr 19, 3:13 PM
    • 70,394 Posts
    • 82,989 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Make sure your complaint concentrates on the fact your passenger was a BB holder and that you found what you knew* to be disabled bays along one side, out of use and covered by containers (or whatever) and that you were told by an employee of the building that you could instead park on the opposite unmarked kerb.

    Say that this is a 'reasonable adjustment' under the Equality Act, to provide alternative parking for a BB holder when the disabled bays have been covered up temporarily, and in no way is it legal for their contractors to then penalise a driver in that situation.

    Remind Knight Dragon or CBRE that they are liable for the actions of their agents and that this is illegal - to remove disabled bays, tell a person they could park elsewhere, then ticket them, is a clear failure under the EA.

    Stick to that issue, it's the strongest one to get a landowner cancellation when threatened with being liable for disability discrimination.


    *yeah you did...!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • imjustanonymous
    • By imjustanonymous 11th Apr 19, 6:26 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    imjustanonymous
    Make sure your complaint concentrates on the fact your passenger was a BB holder and that you found what you knew* to be disabled bays along one side, out of use and covered by containers (or whatever) and that you were told by an employee of the building that you could instead park on the opposite unmarked kerb.

    Say that this is a 'reasonable adjustment' under the Equality Act, to provide alternative parking for a BB holder when the disabled bays have been covered up temporarily, and in no way is it legal for their contractors to then penalise a driver in that situation.

    Remind Knight Dragon or CBRE that they are liable for the actions of their agents and that this is illegal - to remove disabled bays, tell a person they could park elsewhere, then ticket them, is a clear failure under the EA.

    Stick to that issue, it's the strongest one to get a landowner cancellation when threatened with being liable for disability discrimination.
    Oooo that wouldve been good to know before i sent the email i had written, shall i send this relevant information after i receive a response or shall i just reply to my email that i had sent?

    In the email i sent, i just described what happened that day and how it was annoying and an emergency so i had no other alternative, the chemist staff member remembers me from that day also and has said its not fair this has happened. I did plea and ask them to kindly terminate the PCN

    Are there any links for the disabled bays and the fact that you must provide an alternative space for them?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Apr 19, 11:06 PM
    • 70,394 Posts
    • 82,989 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Send a follow up email. Surely the entire point of the complaint in your case, is about the EA angle. Useful EHRC disability template complaint here:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5987635

    You can work out why in law, if they take disabled bays away they MUST provide alternatives, you don't need a link to tell you that! It's obvious.

    But if you want to understand more about the LEGAL duty of a service provider (which includes customer facing landowners, agents and parking firms) then Google:

    EHRC Code of Practice Service Providers

    ...and read about 'reasonable adjustments' and the law about it (the EA 2010). The hit the landowner with the discrimination complaint and KEEP PUSHING, again and again.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • imjustanonymous
    • By imjustanonymous 12th Apr 19, 10:41 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    imjustanonymous
    Send a follow up email. Surely the entire point of the complaint in your case, is about the EA angle. Useful EHRC disability template complaint here:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5987635

    You can work out why in law, if they take disabled bays away they MUST provide alternatives, you don't need a link to tell you that! It's obvious.

    But if you want to understand more about the LEGAL duty of a service provider (which includes customer facing landowners, agents and parking firms) then Google:

    EHRC Code of Practice Service Providers

    ...and read about 'reasonable adjustments' and the law about it (the EA 2010). The hit the landowner with the discrimination complaint and KEEP PUSHING, again and again
    Thank you very much for that, it is obvious to know alternative must be provided, to just needed something to back me up

    However, after taking MistyZ advice about sending emails and branching out, the peninsula security team have emailed me this morning saying that they will pay the PCN on behalf of me after hearing my story, they have asked for a copy of the letter and I can only send that by tonight, I have dropped them my contact number.

    My MP has said they don't have any sort of power still with these things and advised me to go to POPLA

    I think it's still worth mentioning the Information you gave me in the previous post and see if they could do anything about it so that no one who has an emergency as I did has to go through this ordeal again

    Apparently the security team had got my email by Knight Dragon forwarding them it but seems as if Knight Dragon didn't want to talk with me direct? 🤔

    Anyways, seems as if it's now going to be cleared up, should I also tell them that I've appealed it? Inacse it comes back to me
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Apr 19, 9:18 PM
    • 70,394 Posts
    • 82,989 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No need to tell them you've appealed it but do ask for proof it is paid//cancelled.

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 12th Apr 19, 10:00 PM
    • 465 Posts
    • 845 Thanks
    MistyZ
    The complexity of who has responsibility for what on the peninsula was really starting to annoy me, so I'm well chuffed hearing this result! Well done!
    • imjustanonymous
    • By imjustanonymous 16th Apr 19, 6:10 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    imjustanonymous
    The complexity of who has responsibility for what on the peninsula was really starting to annoy me, so I'm well chuffed hearing this result! Well done!
    Was beginning to annoy me an i thought i was ending up nowhere, thanks for you help about going to the landowner
    • imjustanonymous
    • By imjustanonymous 16th Apr 19, 6:13 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    imjustanonymous
    No need to tell them you've appealed it but do ask for proof it is paid//cancelled.
    Did ask for a receipt of confirmation but they said that the initial email they sent, i should use that as confirmation for this

    Slightly off topic, do you know where i can go for help about a dispute im having or wanting to sort out with a builder i hired who i believe is charging me for something he did wrong and is demanding money to fix it
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th Apr 19, 6:59 PM
    • 23,082 Posts
    • 36,668 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Slightly off topic, do you know where i can go for help about a dispute im having or wanting to sort out with a builder i hired who i believe is charging me for something he did wrong and is demanding money to fix it
    Legal Beagles forum will be a better slot than a parking forum.

    https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
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