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  • FIRST POST
    • Scoobylou9
    • By Scoobylou9 22nd Mar 19, 7:53 PM
    • 16Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Scoobylou9
    NSL Parking Charge Notice on Leased Car
    • #1
    • 22nd Mar 19, 7:53 PM
    NSL Parking Charge Notice on Leased Car 22nd Mar 19 at 7:53 PM
    Hi guys, newbie here.

    I received a Parking Charge Notice on my leased car yesterday. My car was parked in an estate parking bay in an area controlled by Tower Hamlets Homes, the ticket was issued by NSL, who I understand are a private company.

    Iíve read the Newbies thread as well as the many links and threads but Iím still unclear on one thing. The Newbies thread states that I must send the template letter off to NSL (via email or their website) before day 28 of when the PCN was received. My question is how soon? I understand the intention here is to get the PPC to engage directly with me and not to get the RK information or send off an NTK to the leasing company.

    So, how soon would I submit the template to NSL? And then do I still wait for an NTK or a Notice to Hirer/Notice to Leasee?

    What do you think my chances are of having this cancelled? The car was parked in a parking bay in an estate, the time stamp reads: 09.30 to/at: 09.31 - would anybody be able to advise me whether the 10 minute grace period thatís suggested in the BPA CoP would apply here as itís not a retail/hospital car park where my ticket simply ran out of time but a parking bay on a council estate where the bays are for the local residents who have council issued car permits. Or am I just scuppered and I just cough up at this point before even beginning?

    Never had one of these before and Iím trying to wrap my head around all the different but similar instances and the plethora of information regarding all of this, itís quite a minefield at the minute!

    I really appreciate any help or a nudge in the right direction.

    Many thanks
Page 2
    • nigelbb
    • By nigelbb 23rd Mar 19, 4:26 PM
    • 2,284 Posts
    • 3,060 Thanks
    nigelbb
    chances are that even if the council owned the land is leased out to an ALMO or similar (this Tower Hamlets Housing association) and so I dont think any POFA issues would wash about non-relevant land

    my council leases out the Chorlton Precinct car park to EXCEL on a long term basis, so POFA applies
    Originally posted by Redx
    It's arguable. POFA says that it's not relevant land if it's a parking place provided by a traffic authority i.e. a council. There is no qualification as to whether it's leased out or not. If the council is providing the parking place then AFAICS it's not relevant land.
    Last edited by nigelbb; 23-03-2019 at 4:30 PM.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 23rd Mar 19, 4:52 PM
    • 22,244 Posts
    • 28,128 Thanks
    Redx
    these TMO and HA and ALMO,s all muddy the waters because councils have made the waters murky like they did at Grenfell

    the OP has no proof that the council own this and is calling it a council estate because its an all encompassing term that used to mean what it says but now that councils have set up these interim systems its like a private HA runs them

    the fact that THH runs it means it sounds like an ALMO and any POFA arguments may not hold any sway and it could distract the OP from the real issues

    by all means the OP can quetsion LANDOWNER AUTHORITY etc and they could pay £3 to get the info from the Land Registry about ownership, but I suspect its all red tape and THH will be deemed to be able to issue pcn,s on the site and POFA may well apply unless the council retained the ownership

    its not like twenty years ago or more where it was either council, or it wasnt , Grenfell proves that , Its no longer black and white. there are so called council estates up here in Manchester that were sold for £1 many years ago to a private HA , but are still called "council estates" even though they arent any more

    and I know of one local "ex-council" multi storey car park which was knocked down and currently has 3 parking regimes operating on the resulting land , one being council, one being CEL for KFC and one being SIP , as if the ownership is split 3 ways now (we assume its part of the councils selling off car parks to fund services)

    we have another one in my home town that was once a council car park but has had various businesses built on it and has EXCEL monitoring the resulting parking bays

    whatever will be , will be , but its deffo not black and white as people up here have found out when parking on land owned by a council yet leased out long term to parking companies etc , especially where it is not the council explicitly offering parking

    I doubt that the council issued these parking permits either, I suspect the OP assumed that , same as we assume that councils do everything, which they dont

    I believe that THH issued the parking permits , as an HA or a TMO or an ALMO and it is dangerous to assume that its all "council" and therefore that POFA does not apply, but it is worth querying this aspect to popla

    it may well be that when the OP submits the initial appeal to NSL it will be rejected and then they may have to appeal to THH , before any POPLA etc, never mind the hire/lease car issues , in other words like the WING PARKING ones we get in other ALMO cases

    if the OP and anyone else google them they will find the following proving they are an ALMO

    Tower Hamlets Homes is an award winning ALMO (Arm's Length Management Organisation). A not-for-profit company set up in 2008 to deliver high quality housing services for residents living in 21,000 homes in East London, including 9,000 leasehold homes and 12,000 tenanted homes. Tower Hamlets council owns the homes and we manage the tenancies and leases for them.
    so like I suspected earlier , its an ALMO , so no different than the WING PARKING ones we see on here , but the OP never mentioned it being an ALMO and so nobody mentioned having to appeal twice in the first instances before any POPLA codes or NTH being issued , again meaning there is no real timeframe from windscreen ticket to NTH arriving or POPLA etc

    according to CM on this recent WING one, the POFA issue may well not be able to make a keeper liable despite it being an ALMO due to council ownership as you say, so the OP needs to follow the same procedures

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5976914

    none of which has any relevance to the separate issue about the vehicle being leased , that just makes it even harder for the PPC NSL who have even more hoops to jump through , providing the OP does not reveal who was driving

    so its one step at a time , slowly slowly catchee monkey and the OP needs to stop the "what ifs" and concentrate on dealing with each stage separately, as it unfolds, because its one of the most complicated that there is
    Last edited by Redx; 23-03-2019 at 6:43 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Scoobylou9
    • By Scoobylou9 15th Apr 19, 5:19 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Scoobylou9
    Hi,

    So today is day 25 and I was supposed to send in the template.

    I wanted to do this online but upon logging into the Tower Hamlets Homes website it basically said they only accept postal appeals!

    Having checked the previous advice given on this thread I’ve found that a postal appeal should’ve been send on day 24 to be on the safe side, that was yesterday.

    I’m going to send it off tomorrow, will this work against me in any way? Shall I send it off via 1st class recorded delivery to ensure they receive it by or before day 28?

    I know that the template should be sent exactly as it is and no changes should be made but I’ve come across something which I think will help me and I want to know if I should send that evidence along with this first stage appeal?

    On the day of the contravention, the driver took photos of the car at the place it shouldn’t have been parked because the vehicle had sustained some damage. Luckily for me and the driver, not only was the damage captured but where the parking sign was covered completely by some bits of old furniture somebody had thrown out. There was other bits of broken up furniture in the general area but the point being the sign was completely covered up.

    The sign is in a location right next to the communal bins where regular fly tipping occurs. There is always old mattresses, household appliances and furniture being thrown out and left in that specific area.

    My proof is the photos with the time and date stamp!

    Any advice?

    Thanks
    • Scoobylou9
    • By Scoobylou9 15th Apr 19, 5:21 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Scoobylou9
    I should add that the photos were taken 9 minutes before the PCN was issued.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 15th Apr 19, 5:28 PM
    • 38,637 Posts
    • 22,587 Thanks
    Quentin
    Send first class but not signed for (which you refer to as "recorded")


    Take it to the post office and get a proof of posting and keep it safe
    • Scoobylou9
    • By Scoobylou9 15th Apr 19, 5:31 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Scoobylou9
    Thank you, I will do just that.

    Do you have any advice about the photos I mentioned?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 15th Apr 19, 5:36 PM
    • 38,637 Posts
    • 22,587 Thanks
    Quentin
    Save them for POPLA
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Apr 19, 6:03 PM
    • 70,385 Posts
    • 82,950 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    So today is day 25 and I was supposed to send in the template.

    I wanted to do this online but upon logging into the Tower Hamlets Homes website it basically said they only accept postal appeals!
    What? Why are you not just appealing as per what the PCN says?

    Surely you saw on the PCN how to appeal, is it really to Tower Hamlets Homes themselves and does the PCN not give a portal or email?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Scoobylou9
    • By Scoobylou9 16th Apr 19, 10:35 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Scoobylou9
    I did follow the instructions on the back of the PCN. It did give a website, I logged in using the PCN reference and car reg, viewed the pictures and then clicked on the tab “appeal your PCN” but all I got was “ERROR 404” time and again.

    I then had to google it and managed to find an email address so sent the template off, the email was thhpcn@nsl.co.uk, I’m hoping that’s the correct address because this wasn’t on the back of the PCN.

    Anyway, it’s just a waiting game now. Thanks to everyone for all their help so far.

    POPLA next.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Apr 19, 11:40 PM
    • 70,385 Posts
    • 82,950 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    As this was NSL, can I just check something important...was this a PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE or a PARKING CHARGE NOTICE?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Scoobylou9
    • By Scoobylou9 19th Apr 19, 7:31 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Scoobylou9
    Itís definitely a ďparking charge noticeĒ.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Apr 19, 10:10 AM
    • 70,385 Posts
    • 82,950 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    OK good, that's clarified things. I was just checking it's a private PCN, and it is.

    However, the below was a dangerous assumption perhaps, as you cannot know if that email addy can be used to appeal the PCN because the PCN didn't give you this option:

    I did follow the instructions on the back of the PCN. It did give a website, I logged in using the PCN reference and car reg, viewed the pictures and then clicked on the tab “appeal your PCN” but all I got was “ERROR 404” time and again.

    I then had to google it and managed to find an email address so sent the template off, the email was thhpcn@nsl.co.uk, I’m hoping that’s the correct address because this wasn’t on the back of the PCN.

    Anyway, it’s just a waiting game now. Thanks to everyone for all their help so far.

    POPLA next.
    Originally posted by Scoobylou9
    I would say, complain to Steve Clark at the BPA next (right now) if that 404 error is still there when you try again. Tell him that NSL are not allowing people to appeal online as promised in the PCN and you had to randomly email a Tower Hamlets email addy to appeal, given the lack of working days over Easter:

    steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

    It's important the BPA investigate PPCs who have no open appeals page when they are saying on their PCN that you must appeal that way.

    Attach to your complaint, proof of your emailed appeal and a copy of the PCN, but NO implying who was driving.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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