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  • FIRST POST
    • Westham man
    • By Westham man 1st Mar 19, 5:15 PM
    • 72Posts
    • 34Thanks
    Westham man
    County court paperwork for pcn from cel
    • #1
    • 1st Mar 19, 5:15 PM
    County court paperwork for pcn from cel 1st Mar 19 at 5:15 PM
    Hi

    Iíve been stupid, ignored pcn notice that my wife got on my car & today Iíve received county court papers totalling £267.13 for a 10 min overstay in a kfc car park in Stockport.


    Paperwork from ccbc Northampton
    Issued 25 feb 19

    Is there anything I can do ..

    I am really crap at using this forum & cant seem to find anything

    Iíve read the newbies post but cannot see any defence for cc claims - can you help me or supply a link to assist in what I need to do

    Thanks
Page 5
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jun 19, 11:53 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,715 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Use the email address Brown Trout gave you as well, it will be 'belt & braces' proof of service and you can print out the 'sent item' email.

    It never helps to use Recorded Delivery as they might not sign, but having said that, at least you can check the tracking number tomorrow and see if they actually did.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 11th Jun 19, 11:55 PM
    • 17,823 Posts
    • 21,677 Thanks
    KeithP
    CEL offer an email address for their Data Protection Officer on their privacy page: dataprotectionofficer@ce-service.co.uk
    .
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Jun 19, 9:30 AM
    • 25,070 Posts
    • 40,398 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    CE ltd
    Horton house
    Exchange flags
    Liverpool
    L2 3pf

    Which is the address on the original claims firm for the claimant -
    ď address for sending documents & paymentsĒ as per their paperwork which is also the address used for the sar
    Originally posted by Westham man
    Simply a mail drop centre. If anyone is there, whether they will sign for receipt is questionable.

    https://www.regus.co.uk/virtual-office/virtual-office-checkout-page?preselectedCentreName=Liverpool%20City%20Cent re#profAddress

    Very imposing part of Liverpool, with prestigious postcode, ideal place for scammers to hide their real business address, which I understand to be in the south east of England.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Westham man
    • By Westham man 12th Jun 19, 10:49 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    Westham man
    Delivered & signed for by Regis @11.46 today. Trust me if I win, or they pull out I will be requesting to claim it all back - already produce schedule of costs in anticipation
    • Westham man
    • By Westham man 13th Jun 19, 4:47 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    Westham man
    Today I have received 2 copies of their witness statement completed by Ashley Cohen (who won’t be attending on the day) but a company rep will !! - it shows photos of signs, the pcn, quotes a couple of court cases & has the BPA guidelines in full just to say it says a minimum of 10 mins in there & im saying 11 is allowed - they have also made an offer to settle fir £100 payment now - which I have read they do in cases they intend to pull out of. They have not replied or countered my argument that I’m keeper not driver & that the pcn doesn’t have 1) the necessary warning to keeper or 2) that it was sent outside of the allowable timeframe - looking forward to this now !! Having my day in court (or not as the case may be).
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Jun 19, 12:33 AM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,715 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    completed by Ashley Cohen (who won’t be attending on the day) but a company rep will
    No company rep.

    They'll either discontinue before the hearing, or not appear (but you MUST!) or they'll send a self employed legal rep who has no rights of audience.
    they have also made an offer to settle for £100 payment now - which I have read they do in cases they intend to pull out of.
    Yes, it is looking like you might not get your day in court!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Westham man
    • By Westham man 14th Jun 19, 9:18 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    Westham man
    Hi,
    I’m a self employed gardener & have a person who I employ, when I go to court on the day neither I nor him will be able to work. I will be claiming loss of earning but can I also claim for my employee as he cannot drive my van do cannot work without me but I will still have to pay him
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Jun 19, 9:45 PM
    • 25,070 Posts
    • 40,398 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Hi,
    Iím a self employed gardener & have a person who I employ, when I go to court on the day neither I nor him will be able to work. I will be claiming loss of earning but can I also claim for my employee as he cannot drive my van do cannot work without me but I will still have to pay him
    Originally posted by Westham man
    Max loss of earnings/annual leave is for half a day @ £95 for the Defendant only (in the cases I've read). Self employed defendants have the Devil's own job to get any loss of earnings costs. Not to say don't try, but you'll need to show good evidence of what you've missed out on - past invoices showing hours worked and rate ph might be helpful, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Sorry.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Jun 19, 9:51 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,715 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Unless you can paint that lovely picture of wholly unreasonable conduct (not just a meritless case, actual dodgy conduct like falsifying photos or not keeping to deadlines set by the court). Adding sums on that they are not entitled to recover, is one that's easy to explain and should be a feature of all hearings when it comes to costs.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6001157

    That OP managed to meet that high bar with their list of unreasonable conduct and got £700 in indemnity costs to cover his/her wasted time.

    So that would cover you and your employee!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Westham man
    • By Westham man 22nd Jun 19, 7:24 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    Westham man
    So them not sending me a copy of their DQ’s, as required by the court, might work against them, with these nasty legal letters & threats of the giving me ccj’s ( like they have the power !) & of course grossly over inflated charges for them using the other letter headed paper they have in the office pretending to be legal or debt collectors ������
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Jun 19, 12:18 AM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,715 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes - all of that.

    It's a high bar but the linked thread shows Judges can be convinced that a PPC claimant has acted wholly unreasonably, and then will allow higher costs in your favour.

    Did you get debt letters though? Who from? Debt Recovery Plus? QDR?

    Neither of those are the same office as CEL. But both offer the service free.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Westham man
    • By Westham man 10th Aug 19, 9:52 AM
    • 72 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    Westham man
    D DAY IS MONDAY 10am, I will let you know how I get on- thanks to everyone who has assisted me in this very trying journey
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Aug 19, 9:57 AM
    • 25,070 Posts
    • 40,398 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    D DAY IS MONDAY 10am, I will let you know how I get on- thanks to everyone who has assisted me in this very trying journey
    Originally posted by Westham man
    Good luck. Whatever the outcome, you've put up a great fight and you will have cost them far more than they can possibly ever squeeze from you.

    All the best.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Westham man
    • By Westham man 12th Aug 19, 9:48 AM
    • 72 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    Westham man
    Well sat here waiting, there is a legal rep saying she is acting on CE Ltd’s behalf
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Aug 19, 10:06 AM
    • 25,070 Posts
    • 40,398 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Well sat here waiting, there is a legal rep saying she is acting on CE Ltdís behalf
    Originally posted by Westham man
    Nice to know that she will be adding to CEL's bill at the end of all this.

    Good luck, go in smiling.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Westham man
    • By Westham man 12th Aug 19, 3:52 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    Westham man
    Well, having gone through a hell of a long day I finally went into court at just after 2pm. It was a harrowing experience & when we went out pending decision I though the end was near. The judge didn’t believe I hadn’t received the pcn, he said the signage was fine, he even stated that the paperwork had been served in time. Everything going wrong !! Then he changed and said he was being asked to make a judgement on 1 minute of overstay. He quoted the 10 min guideline, he quoted the standards meeting agreed actions to move it to 11.

    Then the bombshell, CE’s own pancakes camera images of my car entering & exiting. I had stated they were on the public highway & not on their land - he agreed cis if the double yellow lines clearly visible in the pictures - boom case dismissed - defendant wins - wouldn’t have costs though, the basic £95 day rate & £6 parking was all he allowed - who need a barrister to defend when you’ve got the good people on this forum to assist- THANKS AGAIN TO EVERYONE WHO ASSISTED - POWER TO THE PEOPLE
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Aug 19, 3:56 PM
    • 24,976 Posts
    • 31,881 Thanks
    Redx
    Well done

    Yet another one bites the dust
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Aug 19, 4:07 PM
    • 25,070 Posts
    • 40,398 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    he quoted the standards meeting agreed actions to move it to 11.
    That firmly suggests to me that he knew his private parking onions along. That is a relatively obscure piece of information, not widely known among the judiciary.

    Excellent result. CEL footing another bill!
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 12th Aug 19, 4:12 PM
    • 2,359 Posts
    • 3,242 Thanks
    Castle
    That firmly suggests to me that he knew his private parking onions along. That is a relatively obscure piece of information, not widely known among the judiciary.

    Excellent result. CEL footing another bill!
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    But he didn't understand the 14 day requirements of POFA for the NTK!
    • Westham man
    • By Westham man 12th Aug 19, 4:15 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    Westham man
    Barrister was not happy & asked for reasons to be provided in writing. As she left she said she gets a flat rate win or lose so she doesn’t care either way. She was also supposed to be doing another case today but they settled that one
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