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  • FIRST POST
    • BadBMWservice
    • By BadBMWservice 19th Feb 19, 10:41 AM
    • 14Posts
    • 1Thanks
    BadBMWservice
    Bmw Recalled for 5 weeks - What are my rights?
    • #1
    • 19th Feb 19, 10:41 AM
    Bmw Recalled for 5 weeks - What are my rights? 19th Feb 19 at 10:41 AM
    Hi,

    First time posting so go gentle!

    My BMW 640d has been Recalled by BMW over safety concerns with the EGR cooler, which basically means that it could set itself on fire.

    With the recall, my car has been taken off me and I have been put into a non BMW hire car of far lower spec, told to pay a £50 deposit and made liable for a £1000 excess. The car initially was a Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross and I'm now in a KIA Optima. Enterprise themselves say that the category of car BMW have arranged is below that of a BMW, Mercedes or Audi, which I feel is a deliberate move for cost and also avoiding us driving the competition.

    I have now been left without my car for over weeks with no word on parts availability, and BMW have said that they will not release the car back to me without me taking liability for any consequential damage that would result from me driving the car.

    The vehicle is on a PCP contract through BMW Financial services, purchased as a Manufacturer Approved Used Vehicle through a main dealer, and was still under extended warranty about 10 months ago.

    Financially, I believe that they should be liable to refund me my monthly payment and the equivalent amount of deposit (roughly the same as my monthly).

    Now 5 weeks in, I would have paid the equivalent of £730 to drive around in a Kia - What are my legal rights and what if anything am I entitled to?

    What I have done so far?

    1. Complained to BMW FS - Passed me on to BMW UK
    2. Complained to BMW UK - Said that they wouldn't be offering any refunds or compensation and that it was their final decision.
    3. Contacted the Financial Ombudsman - Told I need the final decision in writing from BMW
    4. Contacted BMW for the decision in writing, they are also going to confirm in writing that they have refused to hand the car back without liability and that the hire car provided is of a lower spec.


    Thanks!

    EDIT: There's a few trolls in the below thread for anyone searching for a resolution to a similar situation. Don't bother with their posts, none of what has been posted so far constitutes advice further than what I've already done as detailed above.

    If you have anything to advise that I shoo uld be doing as next steps please offer your suggestions.
    Last edited by BadBMWservice; 20-02-2019 at 2:05 PM.
Page 3
    • indianabones
    • By indianabones 5th Mar 19, 9:09 AM
    • 260 Posts
    • 230 Thanks
    indianabones
    Apologies for never responding to you mercdriver. I don't have notifications set up.


    My car is a 2012 model 5 series and I bought it 2nd hand. I'm not on any financial plan. Had a text from BMW today saying still no news on the parts and tomorrow it'll be 2 weeks since they've had my car.
    • MissHarvey
    • By MissHarvey 2nd Apr 19, 3:00 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    MissHarvey
    Beware all enterprise hire car users!!
    Our 530d went in for a routine service on 8th March. When I rang to book it in, the dealership informed me about the recall and said they would need to check my car whilst it was in for the service work. I had not received a letter about this, so I asked what the recall was for, the gentlemen explained it was the EGR cooler.
    We had the EGR cooler and valve replaced last year because they failed and the car was flagging up a coolant low warning on an almost daily basis, despite topping it up. A local mechanic diagnosed the issue as being the EGR cooler and valve- a common fault he said! And here we are 10months later having it recalled under BMW!
    The car went in and surprise, surprise! It needs to be replaced under the safety recall as it is one of the defective parts.
    I was offered a BMW service loan car for the day, and when I was later told the car was not able to be driven... I was offered to keep the loan car until the Monday when an Enterprise hire car would be arranged for me...
    In the meantime I researched a lot of threads on the web about this recall and the hire cars not being like-for-like and a particularly worrying thread about the insurance being insufficient!
    When enterprise rang to arrange the hire car on Monday, I questioned the insurance arrangements.. and it turns out that enterprise cover the hire car ONLY. The insurance being offered by Enterprise for the hire cars is not fully comp! It assumes that any third party cover would be met by the “ROI” (renters own insurance). I checked this with Enterprise when they first offered me a hire car, and they confirmed that the contract they hold with BMW-UK over this recall is that Enterprise provide a hire car, and insure that car, and that car only!… the 3rd party cover is to be covered by your own personal insurance policy...!! So essentially, if you had a crash and it was your fault… Enterprise would cover the cost of the repairs to the hire car, and your insurance company would have to pay for the damage to any other person/car/property.
    This didn't sound right to me at all, so I checked this with our insurance company (Adrian Flux) and they confirmed that they would NOT cover the hire car, fully, or 3rd party, and said that was what hire car insurance was for. You take out insurance with the hire car company. Now, when I went back to Enterprise with this information, they seemed surprised that I had bothered to check with my insurer and said they couldn’t offer me any “top-up” insurance to cover me fully, because that would be outside of the contract they have with BMW.
    I refused the hire car under those conditions and luckily for me, my local dealership have sorted me out with one of their demonstrator vehicles with fully comp BMW insurance, but I had to threaten legal action to get it.
    I would hate for anyone else to fall foul of this and find themselves insufficiently insured or personally liable for any third party damages.
    I was assured verbally that if my insurance company refused to cover any third party damage then enterprise would have to claim of their own fleet insurance policy... but they WOULD NOT put this in writing!!
    When I threatened to seek legal advice my local dealership (BMW Cooper Colchester) caved and offered me a choice of 3 BMW Fleet vehicles instead – covered by BMW fully comprehensive insurance, so I am now in a fleet car, and fully insured- for the foreseeable future, but I know of at least two people that I have spoken to since that didn’t realise this and were also un-insured! I bet there are hundreds if not thousands of others. This recall is reported to be affecting 268,000 diesel BMWs in the UK, with 1.6 million vehicles affected worldwide!!
    People need to be aware of this potential flaw in the hire car agreement!!
    Last edited by MissHarvey; 02-04-2019 at 3:43 PM. Reason: Incorrect word used and increased font size!
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 2nd Apr 19, 3:05 PM
    • 6,856 Posts
    • 6,770 Thanks
    DoaM
    Small font - check
    Wall of text - check

    Post ignored - check
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 2nd Apr 19, 3:08 PM
    • 22,344 Posts
    • 21,138 Thanks
    AdrianC
    So lemme be sure I've got this right.

    You think it's unfair that your insurance should have to pay if you bend the car you're driving whilst yours is in dock.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 2nd Apr 19, 3:14 PM
    • 12,906 Posts
    • 9,663 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Our 530d went in for a routine service on 8th March. When I rang to book it in, the dealership informed me about the recall and said they would need to check my car whilst it was in for the service work. I had not received a letter about this, so I asked what the recall was for, the gentlemen explained it was the EGR cooler.

    We had the EGR cooler and valve replaced last year because they failed and the car was flagging up a coolant low warning on an almost daily basis, despite topping it up. A local mechanic diagnosed the issue as being the EGR cooler and valve- a common fault he said! And here we are 10months later having it recalled under BMW!

    The car went in and surprise, surprise! It needs to be replaced under the safety recall as it is one of the defective parts.

    I was offered a BMW service loan car for the day, and when I was later told the car was not able to be driven... I was offered to keep the loan car until the Monday when an Enterprise hire car would be arranged for me...

    In the meantime I researched a lot of threads on the web about this recall and the hire cars not being like-for-like and a particularly worrying thread about the insurance being insufficient!

    When enterprise rang to arrange the hire car on Monday, I questioned the insurance arrangements.. and it turns out that enterprise cover the hire car ONLY. The insurance being offered by Enterprise for the hire cars is not fully comp! It assumes that any third party cover would be met by the “ROI” (renters own insurance). I checked this with Enterprise when they first offered me a hire car, and they confirmed that the contract they hold with BMW-UK over this recall is that Enterprise provide a hire car, and insure that car, and that car only!… the 3rd party cover is to be covered by your own personal insurance policy...!! So essentially, if you had a crash and it was your fault… Enterprise would cover the cost of the repairs to the hire car, and your insurance company would have to pay for the damage to any other person/car/property.

    This didn't sound right to me at all, so I checked this with our insurance company (Adrian Flux) and they confirmed that they would NOT cover the hire car, fully, or 3rd party, and said that was what hire car insurance was for. You take out insurance with the hire car company. Now, when I went back to Enterprise with this information, they seemed surprised that I had bothered to check with my insurer and said they couldn’t offer me any “top-up” insurance to cover me fully, because that would be outside of the contract they have with BMW.

    I refused the hire car under those conditions and luckily for me, my local dealership have sorted me out with one of their demonstrator vehicles with fully comp BMW insurance, but I had to threaten legal action to get it.

    I would hate for anyone else to fall foul of this and find themselves insufficiently insured or personally liable for any third party damages.

    I was assured verbally that if my insurance company refused to cover any third party damage then enterprise would have to claim of their own fleet insurance policy... but they WOULD NOT put this in writing!!

    When I threatened to seek legal advice my local dealership (BMW Cooper Colchester) caved and offered me a choice of 3 BMW Fleet vehicles instead – covered by BMW fully comprehensive insurance, so I am now in a fleet car, and fully insured- for the foreseeable future, but I know of at least two people that I have spoken to since that didn’t realise this and were also un-insured! I bet there are hundreds if not thousands of others. This recall is reported to be affecting 268,000 diesel BMWs in the UK, with 1.6 million vehicles affected worldwide!!

    People need to be aware of this potential floor in the hire car agreement!!
    Originally posted by MissHarvey
    That's better
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 2nd Apr 19, 3:20 PM
    • 22,344 Posts
    • 21,138 Thanks
    AdrianC
    'course, you really would want a floor in your hire car. A flaw would be less welcome.
    • MissHarvey
    • By MissHarvey 2nd Apr 19, 3:34 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    MissHarvey
    Not at all, I think it’s unfair that BMW are offering out hire cars that people are not insured to drive... if no fleet car was available then I would have been left without a car entirely... because I wasn’t insured fully on the hire car
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 2nd Apr 19, 10:17 PM
    • 2,523 Posts
    • 1,711 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Not at all, I think it’s unfair that BMW are offering out hire cars that people are not insured to drive... if no fleet car was available then I would have been left without a car entirely... because I wasn’t insured fully on the hire car
    Originally posted by MissHarvey
    Every hire car that goes out in the UK has third party insurance. They are not allowed to do otherwise. What you mean is that you are getting only third party insurance and that comprehensive cover has to be met by your own insurance. You should check whether your insurance will actually cover a hire car as not all do.
    • MissHarvey
    • By MissHarvey 3rd Apr 19, 10:45 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    MissHarvey
    Mercdriver...
    I spent the best part of two hours on the phone backwards and forwards to enterprise and BMW UK to clarify my understanding.
    Yes, you are right- if I personally go to enterprise and hire a car then it would be covered third party as a minimum. However, this agreement was set up between BMW UK and Enterprise and it was clearly explained to me (branch manager read out the contract agreement over the phone) that enterprise cover the hire car only and that and third party liability is to be covered by ROI which according to him means Renters Own Insurance, and he went on to explain that by signing the hire agreement I would be agreeing to those terms. Which is why I refused- because as you rightly said- my insurance doesn’t cover that. I rang and checked.

    Just raising awareness because most people possibly wouldn’t notice that on the hire agreement, or know what ROI stands for in that context... and sign the hire agreement regardless.

    I could of course just hire a car from them personally - then I would be covered third party at least- but there was no guarantees that BMW would reimburse me for the rental fees.
    • P1Fanatic
    • By P1Fanatic 3rd Apr 19, 2:15 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    P1Fanatic
    It does seem a bit of a lottery what you get. I took my 63 plate X3 30D in for this recall check last Monday. I was given a 118D for the day and then told that my EGR cooler was leaking so needed replacing and that I should not drive my car. I was preparing my case for not being left with the 1 series for weeks/months. But when I got to the dealer they told me that normally they sourced a rental car from Enterprise (did not specify what type of car) but as it was late in the day they did not have enough time to turn it around so they have given me a loaner from their lot which was a ’68 plate 530D M Sport Touring with 30 miles on the clock so I am more than happy to use that. Initial loan is for 1 month during which I hope they can get the new EGR on back order. If not I will be keeping this car until they do.

    Insurance wise I have same BMW cover as with the courtesy car which is Full Comp (well actually it just says Comprehensive Cover) and £50 Excess.

    I feel sorry for those that are running around in smaller / lower class vehicles than your own. It’s a bit of a minefield as to what BMW need to provide especially on out of warranty vehicles. Some of it seems to depend on your local dealer. Mine is via Marshall Hampshire whom I have never bought a car from but have used for servicing (after using Cooper Reading before that were rubbish). They seemed to want to help me as said I got the 530D Touring as its got a decent boot size like my X3 and 3L diesel engine. They also asked if I had a dog (as apparently a lot of SUV owners have them) as the contract says not pets but if I had one they should be able to do something.
    • P1Fanatic
    • By P1Fanatic 3rd Apr 19, 4:09 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    P1Fanatic
    Im just gobsmacked its taking them so long

    We got the letter the week after Christmas, I rang and booked an appointment that suited me, 3 weeks later the car was collected, we got a x5 in return for a few hours till ours was returned, sorted and valeted
    Originally posted by suki1964
    Others like myself got the letter later and now there is a back order on these EGR valves because the recall is so large BMW's suppliers can't keep up with demand (this is worldwide a a couple of hundred thousand vehicles affected from memory).
    • Ambs08
    • By Ambs08 17th May 19, 9:47 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Ambs08
    BMW EGR Recall - not insured on hire car
    Thank you so much for sharing this, it has been so helpful.

    They’ve currently had my vehicle 5 weeks and no sign of it being ready anytime soon!
    I’ve sent a formal complaint in, I rang my insurance after I saw your post and you are correct - I am not insured to drive the hire car! I am completely gobsmacked, I cannot believe they allow this and don’t even tell you. They just keep it quiet.

    Not only this but I now have a chip in the windscreen and I’m expected to pay the excess of £250, which BMW say is between myself and Enterprise and nothing to do with them, even though I never set up the hire car, I have no documentation and no agreement/ no insurance documents from them or anything. Absolutely everything was arranged internally by BMW.
    My vehicle was recalled by BMW through no fault of my own, I shouldn’t be out of pocket.
    I understand these things happen and I’d be more than happy to pay the same price it cost me to replace the windscreen on my own bmw because that would be like for like. But £250 is not like for like.
    Don’t get we wrong these things happen and I know there’s policies in place, but the price to fix it should be the same as my own vehicle because it should be like for like.

    I’m assuming everyone else also had to pay the £50 deposit for the hire car in the first place too? Despite the fact this is absolutely not your fault that your car has been retain by BMW. I just can’t believe the way they’re treating people and thinking they can get away with it.

    You can’t just take people’s vehicles away (which may I add if anyone is like me, still paying the monthly payments for just to drive round in a ford fiesta!) and then expect them to also be out of pocket with the hire car!

    I’m glad I’m not the only one but sad that we are all having this awful experience.
    • P1Fanatic
    • By P1Fanatic 17th May 19, 9:57 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    P1Fanatic
    Mine took 6 weeks. Got the car back now. No I wasn’t charged £50
    Deposit but then I had the dealers car not enterprise. They did say I had to £10+vat to reduce excess but I never got charged it. It seems that experiences differ greatly dealer to dealer which is strange as surely they are all just claiming this back from BMW UK?

    Mine handled it well and I have never bought a car from them just used for servicing. I did think what if something happens to the loan car eg tyre puncture - am I liable? I would have thought a hire car would normally cover you for windscreens, tyres etc but maybe thats wishful thinking.

    If you dont have signed paperwork with enterprise then tell them
    To jog on and speak to the dealer.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 17th May 19, 10:34 AM
    • 2,094 Posts
    • 1,671 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    Re the hire car insurance question:


    We got a hire car from Enterprise (through our insurers) when our car was written off five years ago.


    As I recall, Enterprise told us that their insurance did not cover third party if that insurance was "available" to us elsewhere. Not sure what available meant.


    It did, however, say in small print in their T&Cs that their fleet insurance would indemnify us in the event third party cover was not "available" to us. (Not sure if their T&Cs still the same).


    In fact this was one of my questions in my first post on this forum, but I don't think anybody addressed it, preferring to focus on the issues of what was a suitable replacement hire car and mitigating our losses.


    I can't remember if third party was "available" to us through our insurers (I assume it was) but I would advise anybody getting a hire car organised by somebody else to satisfy themselves completely that they are covered third party, one way or another.
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