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  • FIRST POST
    • moscheeno
    • By moscheeno 18th Feb 19, 10:05 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 0Thanks
    moscheeno
    Beneficiary of fraudulent funds
    • #1
    • 18th Feb 19, 10:05 PM
    Beneficiary of fraudulent funds 18th Feb 19 at 10:05 PM
    I was paid for goods from an account using the faster payments service.
    I sent the goods out.
    The bank say the funds were taken from an account without the account holders knowledge so they have frozen my account and now recalling the funds.
    The problem is, I have sent out the goods and have proof so am left at a considerable financial loss.
    What recourse do I have to reclaim these funds?
    It is not my fault the bank allowed their system to be broken and funds sent to my account.
Page 1
    • societys child
    • By societys child 19th Feb 19, 8:38 AM
    • 6,100 Posts
    • 7,051 Thanks
    societys child
    • #2
    • 19th Feb 19, 8:38 AM
    • #2
    • 19th Feb 19, 8:38 AM
    Which bank allowed their system to be broken, what bank were the funds sent from?
    What recourse do I have to reclaim these funds?
    Find whoever committed the fraud?
    How was contact made, what selling platform did you use?
    Last edited by societys child; 19-02-2019 at 8:44 AM.

    • moscheeno
    • By moscheeno 19th Feb 19, 11:19 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    moscheeno
    • #3
    • 19th Feb 19, 11:19 AM
    • #3
    • 19th Feb 19, 11:19 AM
    The platform was localbitcoins.com
    I sold bitcoins. I know banks dont like crypto currency dealings but it shouldnt matter what the product is.
    I delivered a product and received payment from a UK direct debit account.
    Surely the bank who sent the funds should take responsibility.
    • moscheeno
    • By moscheeno 19th Feb 19, 11:32 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    moscheeno
    • #4
    • 19th Feb 19, 11:32 AM
    • #4
    • 19th Feb 19, 11:32 AM
    I know one of the banks was Lloyds, which is my bank too. They wont say who the other bank was.
    Just keep fobbing me off with 'we need to investigate more'.
    I have shown them all receipts and transcripts for those trades.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 19th Feb 19, 11:42 AM
    • 23,457 Posts
    • 12,851 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    • #5
    • 19th Feb 19, 11:42 AM
    • #5
    • 19th Feb 19, 11:42 AM
    They are not fobbing you off, they simply need to investigate what they regard as suspicious activity. They won't reveal any details to you while the investigation continues, so you'll just have to be patient and hope the investigation reveals no wrong-doing....
    • moscheeno
    • By moscheeno 19th Feb 19, 12:09 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    moscheeno
    • #6
    • 19th Feb 19, 12:09 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Feb 19, 12:09 PM
    I know but it is quite frustrating as they have implied that the funds that have been recalled wont be given back and so I will have lost out on the goods I sent out.
    Hence, I am a victim of fraud myself.
    • Bermonia
    • By Bermonia 19th Feb 19, 12:13 PM
    • 605 Posts
    • 467 Thanks
    Bermonia
    • #7
    • 19th Feb 19, 12:13 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Feb 19, 12:13 PM
    Exchanging one currency for another is hardly the same as goods - as such your rights in the matter will be reduced.

    You will just have to be patient and await the outcome of their investigations.
    • fwor
    • By fwor 19th Feb 19, 12:30 PM
    • 6,171 Posts
    • 4,225 Thanks
    fwor
    • #8
    • 19th Feb 19, 12:30 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Feb 19, 12:30 PM
    I was paid for goods from an account using the faster payments service.
    I sent the goods out.
    Originally posted by moscheeno
    As above, exchanging virtual currencies does not come under the definition of "selling goods".

    If you insist (to the bank) that you were "selling goods" then they will view you with suspicion, because they will see that as a misrepresentation of what you were actually doing.
    • moscheeno
    • By moscheeno 19th Feb 19, 1:06 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    moscheeno
    • #9
    • 19th Feb 19, 1:06 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Feb 19, 1:06 PM
    I have told the bank I was selling crypto currency which I view as goods.
    I nver once said I was selling anything different but surely it doesnt matter what you are selling as long as it is not illegal?
    • fwor
    • By fwor 19th Feb 19, 1:14 PM
    • 6,171 Posts
    • 4,225 Thanks
    fwor
    I have told the bank I was selling crypto currency which I view as goods.
    I nver once said I was selling anything different but surely it doesnt matter what you are selling as long as it is not illegal?
    Originally posted by moscheeno
    Your view isn't really relevant here - crypto currency exchange is not "selling goods".

    One of the main problems with "backstreet" crypto exchanges (I guess this is a fair description of what you were doing) is that they can be used to circumvent money laundering controls. That is not in anyone's interests (except those who have fraudulently obtained money that they need to launder).


    [Edit: by the way, if you want this to be viewed more widely and get a better balance of advice and opinion, you would do much better to put it in the "Budgeting and Bank Accounts" subforum - this really isn't the correct place for it.]
    Last edited by fwor; 19-02-2019 at 2:17 PM.
    • societys child
    • By societys child 19th Feb 19, 4:03 PM
    • 6,100 Posts
    • 7,051 Thanks
    societys child
    I . . . received payment from a UK direct debit account.
    What does that mean, where does D/D come into it, you said faster payment in your OP?

    • moscheeno
    • By moscheeno 19th Feb 19, 4:23 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    moscheeno
    Sorry I meant faster payment.
    The money was from a UK bank account, for which I thought you required 2 factor authentication to set up a new beneficiary. Hence I thought it was safe.
    • fwor
    • By fwor 19th Feb 19, 5:16 PM
    • 6,171 Posts
    • 4,225 Thanks
    fwor
    The type of authentication doesn't matter - an accusation of fraud pretty much trumps all else as far as banks are concerned, so they have to suspend the transaction and investigate.

    But that doesn't mean that the money is definitely lost - all you can do is wait and see what the bank's investigation finds. Don't expect the bank to tell you much about what they are doing - typically banks won't reveal much to either party in these circumstances.

    And please don't antagonise the bank by telling them that you were "selling goods". You need their help, and it won't do your case any favours if you insist that Bitcoins are "goods" when the commonly held definition of "goods" is a tangible item - something that you can put in a Jiffy bag and send to someone in the post. A virtual currency does not fit that definition, by any stretch of the imagination.
    • moscheeno
    • By moscheeno 21st Feb 19, 7:57 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    moscheeno
    I have been open and honest the whole time but i am being made to feel like i am part of the fraud.
    I am being threatened with account closure and being put on some sort of fraud watch.
    I have been banking with lloyds for 20 years and this is how i get treated over someone putting a few hundred pounds in to my account without my knowledge (of it being fraudulent).
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 21st Feb 19, 9:29 PM
    • 23,457 Posts
    • 12,851 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    Realise that your account activity has given the bank reason to be suspicious and that they are duty bound to act on those suspicions.

    Realise also that insisting on referring to Bitcoins as "goods" is not helping your cause at all.

    I hope it all gets sorted out for you, in the meantime you'll just have to be patient.
    • Bermonia
    • By Bermonia 22nd Feb 19, 12:52 PM
    • 605 Posts
    • 467 Thanks
    Bermonia
    Given the type of transaction you were involved in they may well have taken a decision that it is not something they want any future part of - ultimately it is a business decision to make and cannot be argued against.

    Hope for the best, but you may want to start reviewing other high street banking options (obviously outside of the Lloyds Banking Group).
    • moscheeno
    • By moscheeno 16th Apr 19, 8:33 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    moscheeno
    Yup, they are closing the accounts. I guess these banks really dont like crypto currency.
    I have made a report to the Ombudsman because I still believe they should have taken more care in security and not allowed the transactions to hit my account. The worst part is that the other account was a Lloyds account so Im guessing they are trying to brush it under the carpet.
    • Rainbowgirl84
    • By Rainbowgirl84 16th Apr 19, 8:46 PM
    • 782 Posts
    • 1,372 Thanks
    Rainbowgirl84
    Yup, they are closing the accounts. I guess these banks really dont like crypto currency.
    I have made a report to the Ombudsman because I still believe they should have taken more care in security and not allowed the transactions to hit my account. The worst part is that the other account was a Lloyds account so Im guessing they are trying to brush it under the carpet.
    Originally posted by moscheeno
    I suggest that the person who should have taken more care is closer to home. Currency dealing is not dealing in goods.
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