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  • FIRST POST
    • baart77
    • By baart77 26th Jan 19, 7:47 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 3Thanks
    baart77
    Countrywide Parking Management ltd Appeal Denied
    • #1
    • 26th Jan 19, 7:47 PM
    Countrywide Parking Management ltd Appeal Denied 26th Jan 19 at 7:47 PM
    Hi All,

    my dad received a windscreen PCN from Countrywide Parking Management ltd. (IPC member) in a residential parking. He had the permit displayed but they claimed it had not been there and provided as evidence a poor quality photos taken in the dark with only a few showing the number plate and none of them showing the PCN stuck to the window or anything that could prove the car was parked in the residential car park.

    Following the guidance from the newbies forum we waited for the Notice to Keeper to arrive before appealing. The NTK arrived within the required time but gave no deadline to appeal, only said to write to appeals dept if we thought there were reasons to appeal after the 28 days deadline given in the windscreen notice.

    We appealed using the templates from this forum on the 26th day from the NTK never admitting who the driver was. They responded that we had missed the deadline for appeal. We replied again asking them to reconsider and for clarification and also raised the fact they are not seeking Alternative Dispute Resolution. They responded that the case had now been referred to Trace Debt Recovery LTD and the only time available for appeal was 28 days from the windscreen notice.

    This is not a scenario I have seen covered anywhere on the forum. I am just seeking clarification whether to engage into further communication with them or should I assume that we have exhausted all the options and now we just have to wait if the letter before claim comes?

    Thanks in advance.

    B
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 26th Jan 19, 7:55 PM
    • 24,973 Posts
    • 31,877 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 26th Jan 19, 7:55 PM
    • #2
    • 26th Jan 19, 7:55 PM
    this has been covered thousands of times and rejection of the initial appeal is almost a certainty, no matter what the reason they give


    therefore, the IPC and IAS info from the NEWBIES sticky thread applies


    so yes to your latter paragraph above, that is the scenario
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • baart77
    • By baart77 26th Jan 19, 8:09 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    baart77
    • #3
    • 26th Jan 19, 8:09 PM
    • #3
    • 26th Jan 19, 8:09 PM
    ok. Thank you for the clarification.

    B.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 26th Jan 19, 8:18 PM
    • 40,558 Posts
    • 90,071 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 26th Jan 19, 8:18 PM
    • #4
    • 26th Jan 19, 8:18 PM
    Your next move is to complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.

    The scammers and their trade associations make up appeal deadlines that are at variance with acts of parliament because they are unregulated so just make up any rules they want.

    Many IPC companies don't allow the keeper to appeal and many of those that do only allow 21 days.

    There are of course no such deadlines in the PoFA 2012, and the ADR Act 2015 specifies an appeal period of not less than twelve months.

    All of this should be highlighted to your dad's MP, adding the comments in red from the NEWBIES just in case they aren't familiar with the opinions of every MP across every party who has been involved with the proposed new parking bill.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • baart77
    • By baart77 8th May 19, 4:13 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    baart77
    • #5
    • 8th May 19, 4:13 PM
    • #5
    • 8th May 19, 4:13 PM
    Hi all,

    Complained to the MP and I am currently in letters' exchange phase with BW Legal following their usual LBC. So far I have replied using templates from other similar threads. In their recent letter BW Legal claims that their client - Countrywide Parking Management ltd is a BPA member and adheres to their CoC. According to BPA website they are not members and CPM website says they are IPC. All the corespondence from CPM has got IPC logo on it. Not sure if it is relevant and if I should mention this in my response to BW Legal or complain to someone maybe?

    Also when I asked them to state how long the vehicle was parked there for all they say is that it was observed at 22.43 while the photos they enclosed show a timestamp 22.41. ,Can it be challenged as not complying with POFA? There is no period of time given in the original NTK either, all it says is just 22.43. Does it make it non compliant? They say their client is going to rely on POFA to claim the money from the keeper.

    Can someone advise please?

    Thx,
    B
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th May 19, 4:21 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,714 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 8th May 19, 4:21 PM
    • #6
    • 8th May 19, 4:21 PM
    Yes you can argue in defence when you get a claim, that a NTK requires a 'period of parking' then explain the discrepancies.

    Is the NTK otherwise POFA-compliant with the right 8(2)f wording exactly? Look closely.

    This will be the main defence:
    He had the permit displayed but they claimed it had not been there and provided as evidence a poor quality photos taken in the dark with only a few showing the number plate and none of them showing the PCN stuck to the window or anything that could prove the car was parked in the residential car park.
    ...as well as unclear/unlit signage, and 'primacy of contract' if HE was the resident or a visitor to a resident who is a leaseholder or tenant with primacy of contract.

    To understand that aspect, see the residential defence examples in the NEWBIES thread - there are more than one linked there in the 2nd post.

    Re the next reply to BW Legal:
    Not sure if it is relevant and if I should mention this in my response to BW Legal
    Yes, mention it as an example of their lack of checks of the facts. You can use and adapt the slightly sarcastic BW Legal reply I wrote on Monday that's been used in 3 or 4 other BW Legal threads since then, this week (read a few!).

    We assume you sent a SAR to the parking firm already by email, as the NEWBIES thread coaches you to do at LBC stage, to see their hand/all photos?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • baart77
    • By baart77 8th May 19, 4:35 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    baart77
    • #7
    • 8th May 19, 4:35 PM
    • #7
    • 8th May 19, 4:35 PM
    Thanks for a quick reply.

    the NTK seems to be following the rules, time period is the only thing I have found that is missing. After the debt collectors letter, BW Legal got in touch with LBC and following the advise from other threads I asked them to send me clarification regarding the claim including all the evidence they have, which they did. I have not requested SAR from the parking company. Should I do that anyway now?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th May 19, 4:40 PM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,714 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 8th May 19, 4:40 PM
    • #8
    • 8th May 19, 4:40 PM
    Yes - you really need to read other BW Legal threads from THIS week, copy the reply I drafted, and submit a SAR by email to the PPC, like everyone does!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • baart77
    • By baart77 13th Jun 19, 9:49 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    baart77
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 19, 9:49 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jun 19, 9:49 PM
    Hi,

    Following my response to BW Legal in which I challenged the earlier mentioned points I have now received a letter tittled "Your outstanding query" clarifying that the vehicle was parked without the permit from 22.40 to 22.43. Should I still respond and challenge the grace period? This is getting ridiculous...

    Thank you.
    B
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jun 19, 10:54 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Yes why not! Ask where is the evidence that the driver wasn't fetching the permit in that minute, and upload a PDF proof that it exists. Remind them that their client has photo evidence of ONE MINUTE, not 22.43pm.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • baart77
    • By baart77 24th Jun 19, 3:21 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    baart77
    Hi,

    I have replied mentioning the grace period, etc. Another letter has just come through. No tittle just a response to my previous communication.

    They now say "Please be advised the terms and conditions state vehicles should display a valid permit at all times. The grace period you are referring to is in relationship to making payments to park, but as this site is a permit site, your vehicle was in breach. We have enclosed the relevant evidence to show this" Evidence they have is a few dark photos only some of them showing the number plate and none of them showing where the car was parked.

    and further "a letter before claim will be issued in due course should no amicable resolution be forthcoming"

    Seems to me a lot of BS. Should I continue a further letter exchange or ignore and wait for a proper LBC? any advise would be appreciated.

    Thx,
    B
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 24th Jun 19, 4:07 PM
    • 10,891 Posts
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    Guys Dad
    Why are you mentioning a grace period when your opening post says the permit was on display/ That just indicates that your initial claim is false.

    Far better to dispute the charge and to demand all photographs and if none of them are of the windscreen, that screams a "WHY NOT?" to me and should be any point of defence in court. They need to prove no permit on display and if they have photos of the number plate, car at distance but not the windscreen, they are pushing water uphill.

    You may have clouded the issue with reference ro Grace periods and made you look evasive.
    Last edited by Guys Dad; 24-06-2019 at 4:26 PM.
    • baart77
    • By baart77 24th Jun 19, 4:46 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    baart77
    Hi,

    thanks for a quick reply. I thought it would make sense to challenge both - their inability to prove the permit was not displayed based on the photos provided and the fact their claim is based on a very short period of time where the car was allegedly parked without a permit. Plus all other arguments suggested in similar cases. There is a photo of a part of the windscreen but in no way can it be proved it was my dad's car (no number plate visible) or that it was taken at the residential car park. What do you suggest I should do now?

    Thx,
    B
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 25th Jun 19, 12:01 AM
    • 76,396 Posts
    • 89,714 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Should I continue a further letter exchange or ignore and wait for a proper LBC?
    If you have already done a SAR to the DPO of the parking firm, then there's little to be done at this stage.

    Clearly people arriving at a permit site need time to fetch a permit/read signs.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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