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  • FIRST POST
    • damnParking
    • By damnParking 13th Jan 19, 12:28 PM
    • 15Posts
    • 2Thanks
    damnParking
    Devere Parkingin residential space
    • #1
    • 13th Jan 19, 12:28 PM
    Devere Parkingin residential space 13th Jan 19 at 12:28 PM
    Hi, I am new here. Than u for all the help u provide here, (not sure if I will be on time to defend myself) but I want to try! I have been reading to get up to date with everything u comment but it is quite tedious so I will explain my situation and see what u think. I Arrived yesterday from holiday and had a letter from the 31st of December with a claim form. I have checked the forum about how these should look like and seems a genuine one.
    I live in a residential space where we are allowed to park one car. We got two PCN´s stating that we were not showing the permit (we have to swap it between cars quite often) both with the not having a parking permit on display. I am quite short on time because as far as I know I need to reply to this in 14 days.
    I need to send the AOS right? and that would give me some more time to get my defence ready. What would be my best way of defence, seems to me quite unfair to get a 100 pound ticket in my residential parking because the permit fell in one of those swaps..

    Thank u!
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Jan 19, 12:32 PM
    • 39,120 Posts
    • 87,383 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 19, 12:32 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 19, 12:32 PM
    Follow the guide to court in post 2 of the NEWBIES written by bargepole, and yes, start with the AoS, but put nothing in the defence box.

    Dig out your lease/AST to see exactly what it says about parking as this has primacy of contract. Those rights cannot be taken away buy a third party scammer.

    Look especially for (or lack of) anything about a third party being able to issue charges or take you to court, or having to display a permit.

    Complain to the landlord/landowner, and the MA/HA if they brought in these parasites. They are not there to scam genuine residents but are supposed to stop people who do not have the right to be there.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jan 19, 12:52 PM
    • 13,592 Posts
    • 14,815 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #3
    • 13th Jan 19, 12:52 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jan 19, 12:52 PM
    I see you mention "the 31st of December", is that the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

    Did your Claim Form come from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton, or from somewhere else?
    .
    • damnParking
    • By damnParking 13th Jan 19, 1:41 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    damnParking
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 19, 1:41 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 19, 1:41 PM
    Thanks for the advice. Ok, I have done the AoS. I just had a quick look to that post, and there is quite some information to digest. i will post again when I understand how to proceed. Thank u very much again
    • damnParking
    • By damnParking 13th Jan 19, 1:59 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    damnParking
    • #5
    • 13th Jan 19, 1:59 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jan 19, 1:59 PM
    I see you mention "the 31st of December", is that the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

    Did your Claim Form come from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton, or from somewhere else?
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Yeah that is the issue date, and it comes from:
    COUNTY COURT BUSUNESS CENTRE,
    ST KATHARINE´S HOUSE
    ...
    NN1 2LH

    Does it clarify anything?

    Thanks
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 13th Jan 19, 2:01 PM
    • 4,314 Posts
    • 3,447 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #6
    • 13th Jan 19, 2:01 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jan 19, 2:01 PM
    It means it is genuine and KeithP will be back shortly to give you deadlines for defence submission.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Jan 19, 2:11 PM
    • 13,592 Posts
    • 14,815 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #7
    • 13th Jan 19, 2:11 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jan 19, 2:11 PM
    With a Claim Issue Date of 31st December, and having done the Acknowledgement of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 4th February 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's over three weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:
    1. Print your Defence.
    2. Sign it and date it.
    3. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7. Do not be surprised to receive a copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to put you under pressure.
    8. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Jan 19, 3:06 PM
    • 12,439 Posts
    • 12,562 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #8
    • 13th Jan 19, 3:06 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jan 19, 3:06 PM
    Read this

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

    What does your lease say about needing a permit to park? If it is silent on the matter let them take you to court, counterclaim, and take them to the cleaners.

    This is an interference in your leasehold right to quiet enjoyment so complain to your MP as it is the will of Parliament that these scammers be put out of business.

    Hopefully that will take place in the near future. The Bill has passed through the HOC without hitch, and goes to the Lords soon. In the meantime involve your MP, the poor dears are buckling under the weight of complaints about these scammers.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

    Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Third Reading in late November, and, with a fair wind, will become Law next year.

    All three readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 6-7 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers. .

    tu
    Last edited by The Deep; 13-01-2019 at 3:22 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • damnParking
    • By damnParking 21st Jan 19, 6:41 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    damnParking
    • #9
    • 21st Jan 19, 6:41 PM
    • #9
    • 21st Jan 19, 6:41 PM
    HI! It took me some time to find out the info needed. I have checked my tenant agreement and it does not say anything regarding the parking, however, the company that manages the building is a different one, and there are papers in the entrance with some guidelines for living in this building (noise limits, pets, smoking etc) where it mentions that the parking is managed by a third party company that can impose fines, and refers to their terms and conditions on a sign post that apparently is somewhere in the parking lot.

    I guess that is not binding as a contract would be. Should I then complain to the company that rents the flat or the one that manages the building? Are there some steps to complain to my MP (I will have to investigate yet what is this).

    Also I would need some help with the wording for my defence, as I am a foreigner and maybe my formal writing is not great for this kind of speech. And I would definitely prefer to have this issue fixed without having to go to court

    I hope you can help me,

    Thank you!
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 21st Jan 19, 7:15 PM
    • 12,439 Posts
    • 12,562 Thanks
    The Deep
    [B] where it mentions that the parking is managed by a third party company that can impose fines, [/B

    Do they actually use the word "fines"? All they can issue is invoices for alleged damages for alleged breaches of alleged contracts.

    The wording on your landlord's lease is very important, can you get a copy from him/her.


    s on invoives d
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 21st Jan 19, 7:32 PM
    • 4,554 Posts
    • 6,488 Thanks
    Half_way
    Also take a picture of that sign, and post it up here
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Jan 19, 7:38 PM
    • 68,551 Posts
    • 80,770 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I would definitely prefer to have this issue fixed without having to go to court
    You will have to go to court.

    As this is Devere, is hope your local court is not Bournemouth/Poole where it is said the Judges always side with Devere, and where it is alleged there is a Magistrate conflict of interests:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5493386

    and see posts #44 and #45 here:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=59125&st=40
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • damnParking
    • By damnParking 21st Jan 19, 8:26 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    damnParking
    Damn! Seems that I will be fu$%& then, because it is in Bournemouth, but even if they do side with them, the amount of the fine would be the same? Because in this claim form it says already court fee: 25. And 100 for each ticket, as I have two this is a real scam, I have paid tickets from the council, and they are way cheaper

    I don´t have the lease contract of my landlord, and I am not sure if he will be ok sharing it with me as tenant, I guess he is not obliged to do so. Shouldn´t I refer to my tenant agreement? It is what I actually signed.

    Apparenlty as a new user I am not allowed to post links, if u add photos. before the following u should be able to see the image
    app.goo.gl/w5hZFc8EjnzehehK8

    In this guidelines paper, it actually uses the word fines, but as u can see in the sign of the parking, it says "parking charges",

    Thanks again
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Jan 19, 8:57 PM
    • 68,551 Posts
    • 80,770 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You need to move away. I would NEVER EVER live where Devere infest the car park.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • damnParking
    • By damnParking 28th Jan 19, 7:14 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    damnParking
    Is it worth it to try one of these companies that appeals these parking notices? Or am I at a stage where there is no point doing it? And also, if I want to pay this now (what I really really don´t want to) how should I do it?

    Thanks all for your help
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 28th Jan 19, 7:25 PM
    • 68,551 Posts
    • 80,770 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Is it worth it to try one of these companies that appeals these parking notices? Or am I at a stage where there is no point doing it? And also, if I want to pay this now (what I really really don´t want to) how should I do it?
    Originally posted by damnParking
    NONONONONONONO. And more NO!

    There is NEVER a point in giving them your data (shudder...).

    How the heck are people finding this stuff and thinking it's an option?

    How did you know they exist? Did you see some desperate Google ad?

    Look them up on TrustPilot! SHOCKING. One of them even sues people for posting TrustPilot reviews and boasts about that, in extremely aggressive 'replies' to reviews for all to see.

    Another one was mentioned here today and we laughed:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=75383820#post75383820

    I would be getting a defence in, no point worrying about paying it unless a Judge says so. Just be aware the Judge might have pre-set ideas and you might be on a hiding to nothing.

    Nowt to be gained by paying it as you won't get a discount! Can't pay the PCN sum now.

    Show us your draft defence based on bargepole's concise examples in the NEWBIES thread.

    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 28-01-2019 at 7:28 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • damnParking
    • By damnParking 29th Jan 19, 7:18 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    damnParking
    Thank you again for your advice, i just wanted someone more professional than I am to deal with the legal language.

    This would be the draft form my defence, however I would like to add the fact that I did not get any proof of the alleged breach of contract and also, that I was not the driver on both instances.

    I could not paste the formatting here, I will share a link with the info:

    dropbox.com/s/jibklt7i0k68pat/defence.docx?dl=0

    Thank u very much, if you need it pasted here I will do so, it is a bit time consuming but may be worth it!

    Thank you again
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 29th Jan 19, 7:29 PM
    • 39,120 Posts
    • 87,383 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Thank you again for your advice, i just wanted someone more professional than I am to deal with the legal language.

    This would be the draft form my defence, however I would like to add the fact that I did not get any proof of the alleged breach of contract and also, that I was not the driver on both instances.

    I could not paste the formatting here, I will share a link with the info:

    dropbox.com/s/jibklt7i0k68pat/defence.docx?dl=0

    Thank u very much, if you need it pasted here I will do so, it is a bit time consuming but may be worth it!

    Thank you again
    Originally posted by damnParking
    https://dropbox.com/s/jibklt7i0k68pat/defence.docx?dl=0
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • damnParking
    • By damnParking 31st Jan 19, 9:50 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    damnParking
    The last day for my defence is arriving, well it is quite close, could you please have a look at it and let me know how it looks? Anything will help
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 31st Jan 19, 9:58 AM
    • 12,439 Posts
    • 12,562 Thanks
    The Deep
    You have not yet dealt with my post number 10.

    Do they use the word "fine"?

    Do you have a copy of your landlord's lease?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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