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  • FIRST POST
    • tofts
    • By tofts 11th Jan 19, 11:50 AM
    • 22Posts
    • 6Thanks
    tofts
    judgement made - set aside?
    • #1
    • 11th Jan 19, 11:50 AM
    judgement made - set aside? 11th Jan 19 at 11:50 AM
    have another thread for another claim, which is all going OK

    however, I have just received a judgement notice for another claim I wasn't aware of for another parking infraction from the same company, identical place etc etc. To be honest, looking back through the paperwork I can see NOW that the claim form came through but has a similar claim number and as I'm mildly dyslexic I din't see it was different.

    Just entered the particulars on MCOL and can see I can apply to set aside.

    Question - what is the best reason to put on the set aside? Can I simply say that I was confused with paperwork and misplaced it or is this not good enough? Date of judgement is the 4/01/19, original notice was 10/12/18. I was also away for the latter part of December and though I had tied up everything, evidently not.
Page 1
    • tofts
    • By tofts 11th Jan 19, 11:54 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    tofts
    • #2
    • 11th Jan 19, 11:54 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Jan 19, 11:54 AM
    This is my idea so far as a reason:

    An Order to set Judgement aside.
    I am already defending another claim that is identical to this one, I wasn't aware that this had come through and as i am mildly dyslexic I misread the claim number and got the 2 confused. If you see the progress of the other claim, I have successfully defended this and am in the process of submitting the directions questionnaire with regard to the other claim. Given the similarity of the 2 claims, I have a real prospect of defending this claim and ask for my defence to be heard.


    Just looking through the options on the pages on MCOL, there will be a court fee of 255, will this be recoverable? As the total judgement is 275 is this even worth bothering and just pay this? Or can I just pay this, and this add this amount to a counter claim on my other outstanding claim? Well and truly annoyed at myself....
    Last edited by tofts; 11-01-2019 at 12:07 PM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 11th Jan 19, 12:07 PM
    • 39,119 Posts
    • 87,383 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #3
    • 11th Jan 19, 12:07 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Jan 19, 12:07 PM
    I would remove the word, mildly, and give it a go if you think it is financially worth it. Yes you would get the 255 back if you successfully defended the claim.

    It might be worth including the two claim numbers to show how similar they are if you think it will help, and perhaps how your illness affects you such as transposing numbers etcetera.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 11-01-2019 at 12:10 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

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    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 11th Jan 19, 1:33 PM
    • 5,010 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    • #4
    • 11th Jan 19, 1:33 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Jan 19, 1:33 PM
    the risk being, if you dont get your set aside hearing in sharpish, you will miss the deadline to pay the CCJ and have it removed from your record

    You CAN pay the CCJ and then go for a sert aside
    If you have proof of being dyslexic it would help - more discalculic if its numerals ?
    • tofts
    • By tofts 11th Jan 19, 2:20 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    tofts
    • #5
    • 11th Jan 19, 2:20 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jan 19, 2:20 PM
    very mild and never diagnosed, however I do have adult ADHD which has been diagnosed quite recently, and it could easily have been not paying attention so this may be a better route to defend this with.

    Ok, I'm relatively confident in my defence as per my other thread (on site contractor, ticket whilst working with permission etc). If I understand what your saying, the set aside hearing would be quite soon, as I have missed my original deadline will I still be able to attend my local court. But If I understand you, the set aside, does not overrule the judgement (unless concluded) nor extend it so until that hearing is concluded which might not be until after the due date of the judgement, I am still liable and would have to pay asap essentially?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 11th Jan 19, 2:40 PM
    • 12,439 Posts
    • 12,560 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #6
    • 11th Jan 19, 2:40 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jan 19, 2:40 PM
    Is their no support organisation or charity which could give you advice or support? This one for instance

    https://www.adhdfoundation.org.uk/

    Also, get your MP on side as it is the will of Parliament that these scammers be put out of business.

    Hopefully that will take place in the near future. The Bill has passed through the HOC without hitch, and goes to the Lords soon. In the meantime involve your MP, the poor dears are buckling under the weight of complaints about these scammers.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

    Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Third Reading in late November, and, with a fair wind, will become Law next year.

    All three readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 6-7 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • tofts
    • By tofts 13th Jan 19, 8:44 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    tofts
    • #7
    • 13th Jan 19, 8:44 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Jan 19, 8:44 AM
    I appreciate your thoughts but my lifelong issue with ADHD can't be resolved and I'm not going to go in to details here to the measures I use to combat the problem. Also, that organisation would not help in this matter they would probably refer me to the CAB.

    I am here for legal advice on an issue which I'm struggling to understand. This is NOT covered in the newbies thread. I will reiterate my questions as concisely as I am able.

    First, thanks to those who have answered. Your help is appreciated.



    1) I will apply for a set aside, 255. Fruitcake confirms I will be able to get this back. Is it claimed from the court, or GS?

    2) As mentioned before by Nosferatu, If I pay the CCJ in addition to the set aside as the deadline to pay is 4th of Feb or will the application of the set aside halt the need for payment if applied for now. If CCJ is payed This will, presimably, be able to be claimed back from GS ?

    3) Can I apply to have both of these identical claims heard simaltaniously, perhaps even at the set aside.

    5) what is generally, the timescale of application of set aside and hearing. Do I go through the same paperwork process, defence WS, Directions questionnaire etc

    4) Can I put in a counterclaim (how?) As this is genuinely starting to stress me out, not necessarily for distress but more for time wasted!

    Please, and thank you in advance.
    Last edited by tofts; 13-01-2019 at 8:54 AM.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Jan 19, 9:07 AM
    • 12,439 Posts
    • 12,560 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #8
    • 13th Jan 19, 9:07 AM
    • #8
    • 13th Jan 19, 9:07 AM
    1) I will apply for a set aside, 255. Fruitcake confirms I will be able to get this back.

    No he does not, read his post again.
    Last edited by The Deep; 13-01-2019 at 9:13 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Jan 19, 9:23 AM
    • 22,437 Posts
    • 35,314 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 13th Jan 19, 9:23 AM
    • #9
    • 13th Jan 19, 9:23 AM
    I am here for legal advice on an issue which I'm struggling to understand.
    I must tell you that this is far from being a 'legal advice' forum. We deal with private parking charges and how to avoid/deal with them, more at the 'front end' of the process. There are a very small number of legally qualified people on here (about 3), none of whom have commented here, nor have been near the forum in the past couple of months. I am not legally qualified.

    So it might be better to look elsewhere for real legal advice (Legal Beagles forum perhaps?).

    1) I will apply for a set aside, 255. Fruitcake confirms I will be able to get this back. Is it claimed from the court, or GS?
    I very rarely ever disagree with Fruitcake (sorry Fruity). The 255 you have paid is for a service from the court. In dealing with your set aside (whether upheld or rejected), the court has performed its 255 worth. The court will not reimburse you whatever the outcome.

    The route for reimbursement is via the claimant, who you will need to prove to have done something fundamentally wrong in causing you to have to apply for this set aside of the default judgment they have won against you. There's nothing I've read in your thread that jumps out at me as them having done so. Defending your case successfully is not a guarantee of reimbursement, you have to convince the Judge to make that order, in your favour, against the claimant.

    Getting the set aside fee refunded by the claimant, in my experience on here, is more unlikely than likely.

    Others might comment here, but please do seek other advice too.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 13-01-2019 at 9:27 AM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Jan 19, 9:30 AM
    • 12,439 Posts
    • 12,560 Thanks
    The Deep
    I too think that you will struggle obtaining a set aside.

    AFAICS the PPC has behaved properly. You cannot blame your condition on your failure to understand the paperwork, you should have had someone check it for you.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jan 19, 5:38 PM
    • 68,527 Posts
    • 80,756 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Why not contact your local Law Centre for free advice?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jan 19, 5:43 PM
    • 21,798 Posts
    • 27,388 Thanks
    Redx
    as to this 255 issue, its not automatic recovery

    you ask the judge to award it as part of your costs order, they may well decide to leave it as is pending the outcome of the case (in limbo0

    if you successfully defend the case then you ask for it to be awarded to you in your evential costs order, the judge then decides if you get it back (or not)

    it is not automatic and the court do not refund it either, you are cliaming it back in your costs order against the claimant, IF you win (but it is NOT guaranteed)

    court is risky, and can be costly , plus this is not a legal aid forum, its a consumer advice forum , it says nothing about legal advice etc in the forum name , it says PARKING TICKETS , FINES & PARKING
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • tofts
    • By tofts 15th Jan 19, 4:30 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    tofts
    Your right its not a legal aid forum, BUT as it is regarding 2 parking fines, perhaps this is the best place as I already have an ongoing thread.

    To be honest, after all is said and done I'm going to cut my losses and pay the CCJ, as I literally CBA to deal with this any more and all of your comments are not terribly promising ref getting the money back which I actually expected, I was just clarified what is probably already reasonably obvious. i have already tentatively enquired about professional legal aid, but as expected its prohibitively more expensive than the cost of the claim when asked. I am by far not a stupid person, but struggle to maintain concentration on a lot of things, the longer this goes on the longer I am likely to drop the ball again and cost myself further hassle.

    Best reply from Umkomaas, exactly the answer I was after and Indeed exactly what I already thought. I was just rather hoping there might be a way to gain back the money (255) through what is effectively a Cockup on my end, which I can live without as its not an earth shattering amount of money. Its more the principal that I am pay this money and as we all know ITS A FREAKING SCAM. Perhaps when I take the other matter to court, I can ask for money back with ref to this "fine".

    In this instance, 1-0 to Gladstones.
    Last edited by tofts; 15-01-2019 at 4:37 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jan 19, 4:35 PM
    • 68,527 Posts
    • 80,756 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    That's a shame.

    There would (probably, never guaranteed) have been an argument that to serve two claims about essentially the same matter was an abuse of process and thus, you could not reasonably have been expected to realise for one moment that this was a separate claim. And so the CCJ should be set aside and the claims merged to continue in the usual way.

    But you are sadly never guaranteed to get the 255 back.

    Albeit you could sue for it afterwards, if you then won the merged claims...as clearly the sneaky 2nd claim was unwarranted, and the fee wasted on your part, due wholly to the Claimant striking with the unwarranted burden of a 2nd claim just before Christmas which should never have been separate and was wholly unreasonable conduct by a serial litigator whose first duty is to the court.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 15-01-2019 at 4:37 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Parkingfines
    • By Parkingfines 15th Jan 19, 4:35 PM
    • 161 Posts
    • 207 Thanks
    Parkingfines
    You have made the right choice. You would not win this set aside so double the amount of money down the drain
    • tofts
    • By tofts 17th Jan 19, 1:22 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    tofts
    Last question, on the form it states that I must inform the court its been satisfied and that I don't want it entered on record. There is also a post on here that says that so long as it is has been payed then it will not go on record.

    Thoughts as to how to deal with this and what is correct?

    Edit: Already on the record, thus one would assume I will need some form of receipt which of course their payment line didn't give me, or will it be automated and through the post? Or can I use a copy of the the bank statement showing payment?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 17th Jan 19, 1:40 PM
    • 13,591 Posts
    • 14,790 Thanks
    KeithP
    Here's an idea... ask the court what they would accept.

    Ring them.
    .
    • tofts
    • By tofts 17th Jan 19, 2:56 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    tofts
    Wow, that comes across as flippant....

    you make me not want to ask questions on this forum with a remark like that, its not like I'm asking for you to do the work for me. I just wanted some advice. There's nearly an hour wait on the phones and somebody here might be able to give the answer without having to trudge around with a phone perched under my ear for an hour.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 17th Jan 19, 3:19 PM
    • 10,908 Posts
    • 14,445 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Wow, that comes across as flippant....

    you make me not want to ask questions on this forum with a remark like that, its not like I'm asking for you to do the work for me. I just wanted some advice. There's nearly an hour wait on the phones and somebody here might be able to give the answer without having to trudge around with a phone perched under my ear for an hour.
    Originally posted by tofts
    But KeithP has given you the answer, it is the quickest way.
    The courts are very busy sorting out fake claims from parking scammers
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Parkingfines
    • By Parkingfines 17th Jan 19, 3:34 PM
    • 161 Posts
    • 207 Thanks
    Parkingfines
    You don't need to provide evidence with your application at this stage
    Last edited by Parkingfines; 17-01-2019 at 3:45 PM.
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