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  • FIRST POST
    • redlfc
    • By redlfc 10th Jan 19, 5:40 PM
    • 101Posts
    • 34Thanks
    redlfc
    Which professions do you think are overworked/underpaid? Similarly which are well paid?
    • #1
    • 10th Jan 19, 5:40 PM
    Which professions do you think are overworked/underpaid? Similarly which are well paid? 10th Jan 19 at 5:40 PM
    Now I'm not writing this as a way of just moaning/complaining but just wanted your thoughts

    Background - 25 year old junior doctor in London , now in year 2 of employment post finishing degree. I have recently found out my student loan has been collecting a whopping 6.1-6.6% interest throughout my years at medical school (started Sept 2012)

    My current repayment amount sits at over 70k! and still collecting interest at 6.1%.

    My main grievance is with the salary I get for the hours/stressload I experience at work. The basic salary for FY1 Doctor is 26,614 for a 40 hour week - this is increased with additional nights/weekends/bank holiday/evening on calls - so it depends on what rotation you are on but I was being paid 30,450 for working 1 in 4/5 weekends (12.5 hour shifts Friday-Sun) +the rest of the of the nights/on calls

    This basic salary goes up incrementally as you progress but only to a max of 46,500 at ST8 level before consultancy (this would take 11 years to get to (F1/F2/CT1-3/ST3-8) and thats without taking any time out)



    So thats a salary of 46,500 after accumulating 70+k debt (and rising) at 5/6 years of medical school, and a further 11 years to get to this figure. So thats 17 years from starting university to get to earning 46,500 for a 40 hour week - and thats if you are one of the very very few individuals who has managed to pass straight through medschool/training without any time out for research/gap years/resits/maternity etc - in reality its longer (I have kept it at 40 hour to allow comparison to other jobs - note I know not everyone works 40 hours in reality but contractually this allows easy comparison as most jobs are 40 hour weeks)



    Now I am lucky that I am still living at home with my parents - but if I was renting in London with the salary I am getting plus the student debt ive accumulated - I would be struggling to stay afloat - and that would be potentially for years as you can see the salary does not improve that much. It is only when you get to consultant level that the salary hits 75k and above.

    Having compared my salary to many friends - I am the least paid by far. Now I did not go into Medicine for money but this is depressing. I also work far more than they do - and they are always wondering how I manage to constantly have to do nights/weekends - it is these shifts which are the real killer!



    Am I right in thinking most of you in finance/consulting/IT/engineering jobs are paid over 45k a couple of years post 3 year degrees? Im not saying this to try and devalue other careers - its more I feel that doctors are significantly underpaid when you consider the stress of job/unsociable hours/time spent to get to this position. I just want to know thoughts of people as it seems most of my friends are earning around 50k at the age of 25 with that likely to go up and up in a fairly short space of time.
Page 4
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 13th Jan 19, 11:01 PM
    • 4,073 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    To answer the title question in bold i would say that for the work they do and the pay they receive nurses and doctors are among the most underpaid and overworked,
    Originally posted by MsPisces
    I would add to that all the other HCPs such as physios and other therapists, paramedics etc.

    Also, carers and healthcare assistants, on much less than even the lowest paid nurses and responsible for looking after so many elderly and vulnerable people. Particularly carers who go to clients' homes and have to run a car and are often not paid for travel time.
    • Mrs_Ryan
    • By Mrs_Ryan 14th Jan 19, 1:41 AM
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    Mrs_Ryan
    I would agree with carers should get a higher salary. For the jobs they do the pay they get is terrible.
    I used to be a healthcare assistant in a hospital though and I earned silly money- when I had to give up my job I was earning somewhere in the region of £17k a year. That was for an unskilled manual job- I have a degree and a Masters and I can only dream of getting anywhere near that now sadly. The basic junior doctor wage is very sobering though that you mention- my OH is a postie and he earns more than that!
    Last edited by Mrs_Ryan; 14-01-2019 at 1:44 AM.
    Open University BA (Hons) English Lang and Lit Graduate; MA English De Montfort Uni 2018- PASSED WITH MERIT!! Round 2 OU started 06/10/18, BSc Combined STEM, Year 1 E117 and DE100.
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    • Jane_B
    • By Jane_B 14th Jan 19, 2:01 PM
    • 131 Posts
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    Jane_B
    You will have a higher earning potential than some, so a few years down the line it will be worth it to have accumulated your student loan.

    Although not sure why you are whining, you would have known the salary bands before starting your studies. A bit late to moan now.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Jan 19, 2:10 PM
    • 4,073 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    I would agree with carers should get a higher salary. For the jobs they do the pay they get is terrible.
    I used to be a healthcare assistant in a hospital though and I earned silly money- when I had to give up my job I was earning somewhere in the region of £17k a year. That was for an unskilled manual job- I have a degree and a Masters and I can only dream of getting anywhere near that now sadly. The basic junior doctor wage is very sobering though that you mention- my OH is a postie and he earns more than that!
    Originally posted by Mrs_Ryan
    I don't think that's silly money for the value of that job, and at the time that would have been the top of the band I assume? So it took you about 7 years to get up there starting from a much lower salary?
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 14th Jan 19, 2:33 PM
    • 5,792 Posts
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    Gavin83
    You could argue that no job is over or under paid, every job is paid exactly what it's worth. Market forces and all that.

    I can think of 3 reasons why medicine is relatively poorly paid. Firstly because it's one of those jobs people want to do regardless of the pay. Secondly it's publicly funded and there isn't really a private sector equivalent job to benchmark it against. I appreciate you've got private medicine but unlike most industries you can't work for a private company off the bat, you'll need those years of NHS experience first. Finally the potential rewards, if you stick it out are great.

    Jobs aren't paid based on how difficult they are or how much they bring to society.
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 14th Jan 19, 9:35 PM
    • 5,688 Posts
    • 7,006 Thanks
    theoretica
    You could argue that no job is over or under paid, every job is paid exactly what it's worth. Market forces and all that.
    Originally posted by Gavin83

    That would only be true if every job was paid at the level where they all got similar numbers of appointable applicants - if you have a situation where some jobs attract either very few or lots of good applicants then 'market forces' is questionable.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
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    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 14th Jan 19, 10:20 PM
    • 2,441 Posts
    • 1,878 Thanks
    hyubh
    That would only be true if every job was paid at the level where they all got similar numbers of appointable applicants - if you have a situation where some jobs attract either very few or lots of good applicants then 'market forces' is questionable.
    Originally posted by theoretica
    Surely that's just one aspect of 'market forces'...
    • Mrs_Ryan
    • By Mrs_Ryan 15th Jan 19, 12:01 AM
    • 10,817 Posts
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    Mrs_Ryan
    I don't think that's silly money for the value of that job, and at the time that would have been the top of the band I assume? So it took you about 7 years to get up there starting from a much lower salary?
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    Nope- I was only halfway! I was only employed for 6 years and I was off on long term sick for about 2.5 of that.
    That said I used to do a lot of unsocial hours and I worked incredibly hard.
    Open University BA (Hons) English Lang and Lit Graduate; MA English De Montfort Uni 2018- PASSED WITH MERIT!! Round 2 OU started 06/10/18, BSc Combined STEM, Year 1 E117 and DE100.
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    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 15th Jan 19, 8:09 AM
    • 11,294 Posts
    • 21,518 Thanks
    Pennywise
    That would only be true if every job was paid at the level where they all got similar numbers of appointable applicants - if you have a situation where some jobs attract either very few or lots of good applicants then 'market forces' is questionable.
    Originally posted by theoretica
    Yet despite the apparent low pay of junior doctors, medical schools still have far greater number of applicants than there are places available, so it must still be regarded as a popular career choice. No doubt people looking at the bigger picture for the long term for high salary in middle age, job security, and good pension upon (early) retirement.
    • robatwork
    • By robatwork 15th Jan 19, 9:16 AM
    • 4,951 Posts
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    robatwork
    No doubt people looking at the bigger picture for the long term for high salary in middle age, job security, and good pension upon (early) retirement.
    Originally posted by Pennywise
    Docs are being begged to come out of retirement due to a GP shortage.

    In my area the surgery has been trying to recruit a full time GP for over a year with no luck, and I have seen several locums shipped in from Bulgaria and Hungary to plug the gap. For sure surgeries are busy and not getting quieter so job security is 100% assured.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 15th Jan 19, 9:32 AM
    • 7,616 Posts
    • 8,221 Thanks
    Comms69
    Docs are being begged to come out of retirement due to a GP shortage.

    In my area the surgery has been trying to recruit a full time GP for over a year with no luck, and I have seen several locums shipped in from Bulgaria and Hungary to plug the gap. For sure surgeries are busy and not getting quieter so job security is 100% assured.
    Originally posted by robatwork


    Worth remembering that GPs are private, so there may be other reasons they struggle to employ / recruit
    • BucksLady
    • By BucksLady 15th Jan 19, 9:52 AM
    • 530 Posts
    • 1,739 Thanks
    BucksLady

    however the 100-150k figures are only for consultants doing private work (naturaly these fields are incredibly competitive and would take additional years of research/audits/publications/ before even being accepted onto one of these specialities) - fully qualified GPs are going to be earning 55-80k
    Originally posted by redlfc

    My husband is a GP and for the past 2 years has earnt in excess of £120,000 per annum. However, this was as a Partner in the Practice. The problem today is finding an opportunity to become a Partner - this seems to have become increasingly difficult.
    • jonnygee2
    • By jonnygee2 15th Jan 19, 11:00 AM
    • 988 Posts
    • 952 Thanks
    jonnygee2
    Fascinating how the average salary in the UK is £28,000 but the average salary on anonymous internet forums is c. £60,000.
    • scaredofdebt
    • By scaredofdebt 15th Jan 19, 11:15 AM
    • 1,280 Posts
    • 624 Thanks
    scaredofdebt
    Fascinating how the average salary in the UK is £28,000 but the average salary on anonymous internet forums is c. £60,000.
    Originally posted by jonnygee2
    This is true, the vast majority of people do earn under £30k but there's a few earning a lot more who push up the "average" figure.

    For example, I live in the north east of the UK, so a very poor area for wages generally. I had a job a few years ago that meant I spoke to clients about their jobs and salaries, the findings were interesting.

    I probably met around 100 or so people in those few months and only about 3 or 4 earned over £30k or so. One was an accountant on around £45k, there was a mechanic earning over £100k as he worked for a mining company, so an element of danger. There was a guy who owned his own haulage company earning six figures as well. I know someone who is an electrical engineer contracting on around £70k but other than that almost everyone I know or have come into contact with earns under £30k, but this is the north east!

    One of my in-laws was earning over £50k a year back in 2005 working part time in HR.

    Met a guy on holiday last year who was a freelance quantity surveyor, charging £950 a day.

    Nice work if you can get it.

    Contracting in a niche in IT seems to be good for over £100k if you can get into it.
    Make £2018 in 2018 Challenge - Total to date £2,108
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 15th Jan 19, 11:29 AM
    • 7,616 Posts
    • 8,221 Thanks
    Comms69
    Fascinating how the average salary in the UK is £28,000 but the average salary on anonymous internet forums is c. £60,000.
    Originally posted by jonnygee2


    you're going to get much more disparity on a public forum, just due to the nature of topics discussed.


    I'm sure some people exaggerate what they earn, but equally, your talking to a small cross section of society. If you look at the debt free wannabe boards there's very few £40k+ earners, and many NMW/NLW
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 15th Jan 19, 3:28 PM
    • 39,578 Posts
    • 36,724 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    Met a guy on holiday last year who was a freelance quantity surveyor, charging £950 a day.

    Nice work if you can get it.
    Originally posted by scaredofdebt
    As you say, IF you can get it. He wouldn't have been working every day, and would have been responsible for his own tax, pension, holidays, travel, self-promotion etc. Plus insurance.
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    • John G Jones
    • By John G Jones 15th Jan 19, 4:36 PM
    • 531 Posts
    • 720 Thanks
    John G Jones
    Fascinating how the average salary in the UK is £28,000 but the average salary on anonymous internet forums is c. £60,000.
    Originally posted by jonnygee2
    Not really, itís a thread about earnings for professionals, who will earn far more on average than non-professionals.

    I know that you were implying that people were lying, but all youíve really done is shown that youíre not really comfortable with statistics..l
    • ManofLeisure
    • By ManofLeisure 15th Jan 19, 5:00 PM
    • 499 Posts
    • 1,260 Thanks
    ManofLeisure
    My husband is a GP and for the past 2 years has earnt in excess of £120,000 per annum. However, this was as a Partner in the Practice. The problem today is finding an opportunity to become a Partner - this seems to have become increasingly difficult.
    Originally posted by BucksLady

    Yes, because GP's are never going to be looking to 'share their profits' if at all possible - their Practice is a business .



    As a point of interest, one of my sons is a GP in France (married to a French girl) and he's earning less than £50,000. However, he's not concerned about that as job satisfaction is much greater
    • jonnygee2
    • By jonnygee2 16th Jan 19, 11:51 AM
    • 988 Posts
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    jonnygee2
    I know that you were implying that people were lying, but all you’ve really done is shown that you’re not really comfortable with statistics.
    It was just a tongue in cheek comment that there seem to be a lot of people here earning very high salaries, and a gentle reminder that, even if everyone is being completely truthful (but they may not be), then at best all this indicates is this is an astoundingly unrepresentative group of people.

    The OP is worried about how his salary compares to others. The long and the short of it is, by every measure she's a high earner. Yet if you read through the thread you might mistakenly get the impresison that 40k+ salary are the norm instead of the exception.
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 16th Jan 19, 5:51 PM
    • 6,774 Posts
    • 12,257 Thanks
    GlasweJen
    No offence but an FY1 is more of a liability than a member of the team. You get a pay increase with every time you prove a skills increase.

    The amount of times I've caught an FY1 before they make a huge error is ridiculous and I'm only paid at band 3.
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