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  • FIRST POST
    • worried jim
    • By worried jim 10th Jan 19, 7:16 AM
    • 9,831Posts
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    worried jim
    Jaguar Land Rover to cut up to 5,000 jobs
    • #1
    • 10th Jan 19, 7:16 AM
    Jaguar Land Rover to cut up to 5,000 jobs 10th Jan 19 at 7:16 AM
    A sad day. Chinese downturn, Customers turning away from from Diesel and fears over Brexit.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46810473

    Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) will today announce it is cutting up to 5,000 jobs from its 40,000 strong UK workforce.

    Management, marketing and administrative roles are expected to be hardest hit, but some production staff may also be affected.

    The layoffs are part of a 2.5bn cost-cutting plan amid what industry insiders have called a "perfect storm".

    They mean a downturn in Chinese sales, a slump in diesel sales and concerns about UK competitiveness post-Brexit.

    JLR is particularly exposed to the first two of these factors.

    China is the company's biggest and hitherto most profitable market. But sales in China have fallen nearly 50% in recent months as cautious Chinese consumers have been holding back on big ticket purchases amid global trade tensions.

    The relationship between JLR and its Chinese sales network have also been strained as dealers demand better terms and promotional incentives.

    JLR is also one of the most heavily-exposed car makers to ongoing consumer confusion about the wisdom of buying a diesel car in the aftermath of the VW emissions scandal.

    Ninety per cent of its vehicles are diesel-powered, although it has been investing in new electric and hybrid vehicles.

    Today's job losses come on top of cuts made last year.

    In Solihull, 1,000 agency workers were laid off in 2017.
    At Halewood in Merseyside, 180 agency staff were cut.
    In Castle Bromwich, 1,000 employees were put on a three day week for the last three months of 2018.
    Meanwhile, Jaguar has been increasing headcount elsewhere in the world.

    In China it has hired 4,000 workers since 2014.

    Most recently it announced it would move all production of the Land Rover Discovery to a new plant in Slovakia with plans to hire up to 3,000 workers.

    Unions are keen to examine whether JLR's international plants will continue to see additional investment at the expense of the UK.

    They are also concerned that the company is not permanently reducing its UK production capacity in the face of what could prove to be short-term headwinds.

    The company has sounded some of the most urgent warnings among UK manufacturers about the damage that Brexit uncertainty was doing to investment in the UK.

    In July last year, the company said it needed more certainty around Brexit in order to continue investing in its UK operations and warned that a "no-deal" Brexit would cost the company more than 1.2bn in profit each year.

    Most commentators have concluded that the chance of a no-deal Brexit have increased with the governor of the Bank of England recently describing the probability as "uncomfortably high".

    Of all JLR's problems, the biggest flashing red light is a collapse in sales in its biggest market - China.

    But the company has been saying for more than a year that Brexit uncertainty would eventually take its toll on the perception of the UK as a stable and competitive base for global manufacturing.

    If, as expected, the UK bears the brunt, or the entirety, of JLR's global cost-cutting, JLR may well say it tried to warn us.
    "Only two things are infinite-the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe"
    Albert Einstein
Page 4
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Jan 19, 12:38 PM
    • 18,296 Posts
    • 11,197 Thanks
    motorguy
    Interesting example you've given. Opportunities to do things which would be unnecessary and/or easier without Brexit.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    As i said i can see why your friends go quiet when you start talking about Brexit - talk about trying to move the goal posts!

    You asked for Brexit opportunities. I gave you examples, and a real world happening right now one. This company is able to expand because of Brexit. They're embracing the change and opportunity. No Brexit = No expansion.

    Its not all doom and gloom - only if it suits you to be of course.

    I plan on making the most of it. I'm an IT contractor, so starting to see / expecting to see loads of new projects spun up across the UK and Ireland that i can get involved with.

    You seem to be very negative without demonstrating the down side for your own situation? Are you facing imminent redundancy or destitution because of Brexit?
    Last edited by motorguy; 12-01-2019 at 12:58 PM.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • RichardD1970
    • By RichardD1970 12th Jan 19, 2:05 PM
    • 3,114 Posts
    • 4,654 Thanks
    RichardD1970
    Wholly loving how the remainers have made this in to a Brexit whinging thread even though these JLR job losses have nothing to do with Brexit....

    "5,000 jobs lost"

    "oh must be because of Brexit - see told you it was a bad idea"

    :rolleyes:
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Not all, no.

    I voted remain, and am at the sharp end of this.

    The biggest effect of Brexit so far, personally, is that the company isn't releasing our full holiday dates until they know what's going on post 29th March in case they need to hold production and do as BMW are, shutting down for April.

    Brexit may have had a slight effect on the car market in the UK due to people not wanting to take on 400+ PCP deals until they know where they stand.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 12th Jan 19, 2:09 PM
    • 3,724 Posts
    • 2,317 Thanks
    Car 54
    As i said i can see why your friends go quiet when you start talking about Brexit - talk about trying to move the goal posts!

    You asked for Brexit opportunities. I gave you examples, and a real world happening right now one. This company is able to expand because of Brexit. They're embracing the change and opportunity. No Brexit = No expansion.

    Its not all doom and gloom - only if it suits you to be of course.

    I plan on making the most of it. I'm an IT contractor, so starting to see / expecting to see loads of new projects spun up across the UK and Ireland that i can get involved with.

    You seem to be very negative without demonstrating the down side for your own situation? Are you facing imminent redundancy or destitution because of Brexit?
    Originally posted by motorguy
    While I greatly respect your contributions on motoring matters, it seems we fundementally disagree about Brexit. No matter.



    It shouldn't affect me more than anyone else, especially since I'm now retired and free of worries about employment. I'm simply concerned about the health of the economy, the cost of living, and the likely added bureaucracy in travelling to, or buying gooss from, the EU.



    Maybe I'm being thick, but I can't understand how your wife's company's opportunity is because of Brexit. They've been able to do business in Ireland (on the same basis as here) since 1973. It won't become easier (possibly the opposite) after Brexit.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 12th Jan 19, 2:13 PM
    • 3,724 Posts
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    Car 54
    Brexit may have had a slight effect on the car market in the UK due to people not wanting to take on 400+ PCP deals until they know where they stand.
    Originally posted by RichardD1970
    It may have a big effect in future (if it happens), as the manufacturers will no longer be subject to the single market rules, which stop them charging significantly more in the UK than in the rest of the EU
    • RichardD1970
    • By RichardD1970 12th Jan 19, 3:20 PM
    • 3,114 Posts
    • 4,654 Thanks
    RichardD1970
    It may have a big effect in future (if it happens), as the manufacturers will no longer be subject to the single market rules, which stop them charging significantly more in the UK than in the rest of the EU
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Yes, I know, like I said I am at the sharp end and if there is a no deal/hard brexit things could get quite difficult on a personal level.

    I was on about the present situation, today, with regards to the present difficulties and job losses.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Jan 19, 3:22 PM
    • 18,296 Posts
    • 11,197 Thanks
    motorguy
    While I greatly respect your contributions on motoring matters, it seems we fundementally disagree about Brexit. No matter.



    It shouldn't affect me more than anyone else, especially since I'm now retired and free of worries about employment. I'm simply concerned about the health of the economy, the cost of living, and the likely added bureaucracy in travelling to, or buying gooss from, the EU.



    Maybe I'm being thick, but I can't understand how your wife's company's opportunity is because of Brexit. They've been able to do business in Ireland (on the same basis as here) since 1973. It won't become easier (possibly the opposite) after Brexit.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    They already do do business in ireland (and all over the world for that matter) however this is additional business they've sought out and won because companies there are wanting to gain a presence in the UK post brexit.

    They're opening a Dublin office (and subsiduary) so they can more easily engage with irish companies and will use that as a base to push more business into the UK centres, and elsewhere.

    As i said, they're looking for opportunities and will seek to benefit from them.

    I'm not at all saying everything is rosy in the garden everywhere - its wholly not, in fact currently its a horrible mess of epic proportions - however when the dust settles there will be change and change brings opportunity. It wont all be negative change and even negative change for some will become a positive opportunity for others.

    I'd rather be looking for ways to benefit from the change rather than sitting around on my hands complaining because it happened and every little thing that happens over the next 20+ years will be going "See! Because Brexit!".
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Jan 19, 3:25 PM
    • 18,296 Posts
    • 11,197 Thanks
    motorguy
    It may have a big effect in future (if it happens), as the manufacturers will no longer be subject to the single market rules, which stop them charging significantly more in the UK than in the rest of the EU
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Simple economics will tell you thats very unlikely to happen - prices go up, sales go down. All manufacturers now want volume and market share.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Jan 19, 3:34 PM
    • 18,296 Posts
    • 11,197 Thanks
    motorguy
    Not all, no.

    I voted remain, and am at the sharp end of this.

    The biggest effect of Brexit so far, personally, is that the company isn't releasing our full holiday dates until they know what's going on post 29th March in case they need to hold production and do as BMW are, shutting down for April.

    Brexit may have had a slight effect on the car market in the UK due to people not wanting to take on 400+ PCP deals until they know where they stand.
    Originally posted by RichardD1970
    Perfectly reasonable under the circumstances and not a big effect currently then?

    And did anyone say there'd be no change or no effect or no short term difficulties? I dont think anyone did?

    I think people are right to be holding off on big spends to see what happens - which conversely goes against the other argument we see on here that everyone who uses PCP deals is trapped into repeatedly doing the same thing again, when clearly given theres been a huge drop in new car sales (mostly because of dieselgate) people can and do make choices concerning their outgoings.

    Sadly this has developed in to a "Brexit" thread.

    So on that basis i'm out - i've made my thinking clear on how i plan on dealing with it. Other people clearly want to take a different approach.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Jan 19, 3:49 PM
    • 20,469 Posts
    • 19,135 Thanks
    AdrianC
    I wish we would use Giga and Tera instead of American billions.
    Originally posted by facade
    It makes perfect sense for a "billion" to be the same the world over, given how global everything is.

    The OED is happy that British English has adopted the thousand million usage.
    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/explore/how-many-is-a-billion/
    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/billion

    The UK government officially adopted it in 1975.


    My heart always misses a beat when they talk about "60 billion debt...." that is a million each!
    Not for the last 44 years, officially.


    That apart, let's put 6bn into context. It's less than three-quarters of one percent of UK government spending for this financial year - a total of 818bn.
    • facade
    • By facade 12th Jan 19, 4:09 PM
    • 3,660 Posts
    • 1,908 Thanks
    facade



    The UK government officially adopted it in 1975.

    Originally posted by AdrianC



    Not me


    I still live in the 1960s.

    I still spell sulphur, sulphuric acid and foetus properly too


    (IIRC, our Government agreed we would all miss-spell sulphur & foetus, if the Americans promised to spell aluminium properly- who cares? They don't even have the same sized gallons as we do)
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Jan 19, 4:14 PM
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    AdrianC
    What's a "gallon", Grandad? I'm only in my late 40s, so I only do metric.
    • facade
    • By facade 12th Jan 19, 4:35 PM
    • 3,660 Posts
    • 1,908 Thanks
    facade
    What's a "gallon", Grandad? I'm only in my late 40s, so I only do metric.
    Originally posted by AdrianC



    In The Olden Days (when everything was better ) we measured liquid in many ways, but 20 fluid ounces = 1 pint, 8 pints = 1 gallon was the main one. (btw, 1 fluid oz of water weighs 1 oz, so "a pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter", a gallon weighs 10lb)



    Somehow, we "metricated" and instead of going for S.I. when volume would be in m3, we invented the litre, which was a way of short changing the public, as what used to be a pint became a "half litre" and instead of 4.5 litre cans of oil we ,moved to 4 litres*, in both cases charging the same (if not more) than the old measure.


    Pop into Farmfoods for your milk: 2 litres is 1, Tesco sell 4 pints for 1.09, which is cheaper as 4 pints is 2.27 litres, but most people think it is more expensive.





    *there was a brief period when 5 litre cans replaced the gallon, but not now.
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Jan 19, 4:56 PM
    • 20,469 Posts
    • 19,135 Thanks
    AdrianC
    when volume would be in m3, we invented the litre, which was a way of short changing the public
    "How big's that oil bottle?"
    "0.005 m3"

    Mmm... No, can't quite see why there's any need for the litre, you're right.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 12th Jan 19, 5:08 PM
    • 3,724 Posts
    • 2,317 Thanks
    Car 54
    Somehow, we "metricated" and instead of going for S.I. when volume would be in m3, we invented the litre, which was a way of short changing the public, as what used to be a pint became a "half litre" and instead of 4.5 litre cans of oil we ,moved to 4 litres*, in both cases charging the same (if not more) than the old measure.
    Originally posted by facade
    I know the British (and especially we Scots) invented almost everything, but we can't claim the litre. It's been around since the French revolutionary government adopted metrication in 1799.


    It's also in everyday use in the rest of the world, unlike the cubic metre.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Jan 19, 5:28 PM
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    • 19,135 Thanks
    AdrianC
    I know the British (and especially we Scots) invented almost everything, but we can't claim the litre. It's been around since the French revolutionary government adopted metrication in 1799.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    I wonder how many Dibnahphiles realise that the basis for SI and metrication was laid by a Brit? John Wilkins, a 17th century clergyman, philosopher, and one of the founders of the Royal Society - one of the few people to have been head of a college at both Oxford and Cambridge.

    The metric system has been both extant and broadly unchanged for longer than most of the UK's "traditional" measures, too - the gallon was officially rationalised in the UK from three different-sized official definitions (wine gallon, 3.79l; corn gallon, 4.4l; ale gallon, 4.6l) to a single, of a fourth different size ("imperial gallon", 4.54l) in 1824. The US chose one of the existing three.


    It's also in everyday use in the rest of the world, unlike the cubic metre.
    The cubic metre is in "everyday use". Different units for different purposes.
    Just one commonplace use: https://www.cemex.co.uk/concretecalculator.aspx
    • facade
    • By facade 12th Jan 19, 7:20 PM
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    • 1,908 Thanks
    facade
    We should have used cubic decimetres dm3, (or even cm3) there is no real need for litres. 1000cm3 = 1dm3, 1000dm3 = 1m3 (1dm3 = 1 litre)
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Jan 19, 7:21 PM
    • 20,469 Posts
    • 19,135 Thanks
    AdrianC
    We should have used cubic decimetres dm3, (or even cm3) there is no real need for litres. 1000cm3 = 1dm3, 1000dm3 = 1m3 (1dm3 = 1 litre)
    Originally posted by facade
    How big's the engine in your car?
    • facade
    • By facade 12th Jan 19, 7:49 PM
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    • 1,908 Thanks
    facade
    How big's the engine in your car?
    Originally posted by AdrianC

    1598 cc. Sounds bigger than 97 cubic inches. (Never bothered the Americans though, a 427 is the engine to have in your Ford)
    However, if it had been 2000cc, I suppose I'd have said 2 litres, but that is just environmental conditioning.
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 13th Jan 19, 8:12 AM
    • 20,469 Posts
    • 19,135 Thanks
    AdrianC
    You've never heard anybody call "1598cc" 1.6 litre?
    • facade
    • By facade 13th Jan 19, 8:38 AM
    • 3,660 Posts
    • 1,908 Thanks
    facade
    In all seriousness, not usually. I would have called it a "sixteen hundred" if I hadn't been pedantic and looked it up.



    For some odd reason, they refer to engines as 1000, 11 hundred, 13 hundred, one point four, 15 hundred, 16 hundred, two litre, two point five, 3 litre, three point five, four two, (only with a unit where shown) I wonder why?


    Maybe it is that odd thing of we can say one four seven or one hundred and forty seven at different times and we seem to "know" which.
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
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