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  • FIRST POST
    • Whatapain
    • By Whatapain 8th Jan 19, 7:40 PM
    • 33Posts
    • 24Thanks
    Whatapain
    11 Indigo PCNs
    • #1
    • 8th Jan 19, 7:40 PM
    11 Indigo PCNs 8th Jan 19 at 7:40 PM
    Hello everyone, great forum indeed.

    The short: I have parked a courtesy car at a local station and paid using connect cashless parlking back in November. At the end of November the garage sent me 5 scanned PCNs from Indigo that the leasing company (their courtesy cars provider) had sent them. I appealed through Indigo website link and designated myself as the driver (only read Newbie FAQ afterwards). PCN uphold, reason : «!parking receipts show car’s make and not registration!». Not sure why. My personal account on Connect cashless website shows all details including registration, but it is possible that car’s make and registration may have been inverted as only make shows when I try to retrieve receipts. Connect cashless belongs to Indigo and surely content of my personal account should be linked to app even if make/registration were inverted somehow. Today same happened again with another email from leasing company to garage, with another 6 PCNs, I can’t even appeal to as their arbitrary date has gone past (dated december 7th all 6 of them and only got them today). ZZZ already sent 11 threatening letters even before the end of time windows “offered” after appeal rejected for initial ones I was able to appeal. Rather lost at this stage, not sure what to do next, suspect they will bother going all the way to SCC with 11 PCNs, all of them linked to the same issue on the payment app, which one can not do anytihing about as unaware until one gets a bunch of PCNs at the same time. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Many thanks!
Page 2
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 9th Jan 19, 4:11 PM
    • 2,801 Posts
    • 3,490 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    seems that POPLa cant get there head around the law

    posted on pepipoo

    "At this point I read on MSE that POPLA should be used for 2nd level appeals. The code ZZPS gave was accepted by the POPLA website, and I submitted my appeal through them.

    A week or two later, I get an Email from POPLA thanking me for withdrawing my appeal! This was followed within a few minutes by an Email saying:

    "You may have received an email advising you that have withdrawn your appeal.

    The reason this is because POPLA do not deal with Byelaws appeals for Indigo.

    You would need to raise your appeal to ITAL using the following link below:

    https://www.ital-uk.com/enforcement-solutio...ocessing/"


    when the poster kicked off with them

    "Thank you for your recent email.

    Although we appreciate your comments; we cannot become involved with your appeal due to the reasons given in our previous email. Furthermore, although POPLA is now in a position to consider byelaw appeals, our acceptance of byelaw appeals only became active from 1 November 2018. If your appeal took place prior to this, then we cannot consider it for investigation.

    Also. if you have a already submitted an appeal with the ITAL we cannot become involved."
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • ANTAR
    • By ANTAR 9th Jan 19, 5:13 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    ANTAR
    A very quick word of reassurance to the OP. My PCN just timed out. I nervously followed the advice to keep asking questions by mail and discovered amongst other things that the more they wrote, the more they got mixed up with dates and other facts. Like the OP I did have a reasonable and honest case to put but dealing with people responsibly, fairly and reasonably is not part of what they do. By November I was getting very scary (to me) letters but I hung on to the fact that they don't profit from magistrates fines and if it came to it, I'd have a good and reasonable case in court but of course it never came to that. It will time out. Good luck.
    • Whatapain
    • By Whatapain 9th Jan 19, 6:24 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Whatapain
    Talking of which does it time out 6 months from the PCN actual date, from the date of the parking «issue!» itself or from 28 days after either date above?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Jan 19, 7:06 PM
    • 65,747 Posts
    • 78,276 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    6 months from the parking event.

    And it will...just play email tennis if you have any that can't be appealed.

    There is no ITAL template as it's too new, so all you can do is try POPLA style appeals to ITAL and give us feedback on how ITAL respond.

    We will learn from guinea pigs like you, sorry! But that's how we learned about POPLA.

    You also might want to point out to the lease firm, that Indigo/ZZPS are arguably misusing the lease firm's data, which should long since have been erased as soon as Indigo had your name and address (if you admitted being the driver, and gave your name and postal address in every case, then the liability - if any - has transferred to you and no letters should be bothering the lease firm).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Whatapain
    • By Whatapain 9th Jan 19, 7:10 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Whatapain
    True.. They perhaps think that the leasing company being a relatively well known car make, that they will not bother not pay, or that they have more money than a temporary driver who used it for 2 weeks ..!?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jan 19, 1:31 AM
    • 65,747 Posts
    • 78,276 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes but they cannot pursue another party once they know who the driver was.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Whatapain
    • By Whatapain 10th Jan 19, 8:33 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Whatapain
    It seems that info entered from the mobile app updates info on the website so even if info on website is originally correct it gets modified as vehicule are being added from the app. If wrong reg or make is wrong or make entered instead of reg then that is the info recorded. Point being that the app should not let one enter a make instead of a the reg (humans do make mistakes) and a if a mistake generates 11 + errors , anyone reasonable should see that. Admitting that one has paid but entered the make instead of the reg and upholding so called penalties is pure bad faith unless they suggest one paid parking for 2 weeks knowingly using wrong details while driving and parking on the dame days the same car with the same make without displaying any ticket or corresponding receipt. Farcical really
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 10th Jan 19, 9:23 AM
    • 38,553 Posts
    • 86,421 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    The parking app is obviously faulty and not fit for purpose like ANPR systems where it is possible to enter a VRN for a vehicle that is not actually present in the car park.

    Allowing this to happen is in my opinion an unfair contract term.

    The software should be set up so that only a VRN can be entered. This gives the problem where the vehicle has a non-UK late or custom plate, but that is easily resolved with a sub routine to ask the person entering the data.

    Please enter full vehicle registration number
    VRN not recognised,
    Please enter full vehicle registration number
    VRN not recognised
    Is this a non-UK vehicle?
    Yes Please enter full vehicle registration number
    No Is this a personalised number plate?
    Yes Please enter full vehicle registration number
    No

    VRN not recognised,
    DO NOT PARK. PAYMENT NOT TAKEN

    If this happened regularly then the programme should send a flag to their IT personnel to flag up a recurring bug.


    Just one other thing that C-m mentioned on another thread.

    If anywhere the ITAL process says that the decision is binding on the motorist/appellant, STOP at once, back away slowly, and come back here!
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 10-01-2019 at 9:28 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Jan 19, 9:33 AM
    • 11,502 Posts
    • 11,591 Thanks
    The Deep
    VRN not recognised,
    DO NOT PARK. PAYMENT NOT TAKEN


    I think that the ECJ might take a very dim view if owners of vehicles registered in member states were discriminated against thusly.

    Where will all this "progress" end? Will you shortly be able to buy chewing gum from a machine using an app, (whatever that is).

    The world has gone mad I tell you.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Whatapain
    • By Whatapain 12th Jan 19, 8:13 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Whatapain
    So on the first 5 I was sent by the garage and I was to appeal to and got appel rejected, I have 28 days to appeal to ITAL. I am planning to appeal therefore to ITAL on the 21st Jan.
    The 6 following ones I got from the garage and which were to late to appeal I am planning to Indigo by post on Monday. Both of the above will obviously be rejected and further ZZZ will be sent to leasing company who will in turn sent it to me along with the 3 remaining ones to come they still have not received which I might then appeal to Indigo.
    Now in all of those appeal should I explain I was the driver with my adress or not? Should I explain exactly what happens or something else?

    On a side note I have explored the app again and interestingly in order to park a car, one needs to enter Make, Reg and colour. If any piece of info is missing one can not add/register the car. So even if Make and reg are inverted for whatever reason - and it does show indeed show the make if you invert it with the reg - how can they pretent they can not see ALL the info entered including the ref as one can NOT add a car and pay for parking if all info has been entered? Surely if ot it is requested it has some use and they clearly can see it, can’t they? :-) Thanks again!!
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Jan 19, 8:20 PM
    • 2,801 Posts
    • 3,490 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    now this is going to be a funny one

    you had a courtesy car?

    however the ital appeal will only let you continue if you say you are the OWNER or are appealing on behalf of the owner

    PS , you have to get permission from the owner , his sig and more importantly his DOB


    as there terms and conditions are basically crap , you need in PRINT to know id the appeal is binding on yourself/owner and /or indigo
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Whatapain
    • By Whatapain 12th Jan 19, 8:26 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Whatapain
    PCN is sent to the owner. I then appealed to the 5 ones I got as the driver with my address. ZZZ crap was still sent to the leasing company.
    Confusing confusing. Can’t believe have to deal with that for 11 PCNs for the same reason and when each 11 days were paid in full but their own app does not function and their pretend they can’t see info you are forced to enter to even be able to add a vehicule and pay for parking. There are bank robbers who are more honest!
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Jan 19, 9:02 PM
    • 12,108 Posts
    • 12,847 Thanks
    KeithP
    PCN is sent to the owner.
    Originally posted by Whatapain
    Was it?

    Or was it sent to the Registered Keeper?

    An important distinction when it comes to Byelaw cases.
    .
    • Whatapain
    • By Whatapain 12th Jan 19, 9:17 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Whatapain
    Title reads : Penalty notice by post
    Notice to OWNER.

    I am not the keeper nor the owner.. and it is byelaw 14 indeed-
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Jan 19, 9:21 PM
    • 12,108 Posts
    • 12,847 Thanks
    KeithP
    Title reads : Penalty notice by post
    Notice to OWNER.

    I am not the keeper nor the owner.. and it is byelaw 14 indeed-
    Originally posted by Whatapain
    I have no idea how whoever sent that notice knows who the owner might be. Are you?

    There is certainly no central list of vehicle owners that they could've referred to, but reading other posts it does look like ITAL are maybe heading towards creating and populating such a list.
    Last edited by KeithP; 12-01-2019 at 9:24 PM.
    .
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Jan 19, 9:25 PM
    • 2,801 Posts
    • 3,490 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    Title reads : Penalty notice by post
    Notice to OWNER.

    I am not the keeper nor the owner.. and it is byelaw 14 indeed-
    Originally posted by Whatapain
    umm read this

    Should you remain dissatisfied with this decision, or have additional evidence, you may further your appeal to the Appeals Service within 28 days of receiving your rejection letter. Appeals may be submitted online at www.asparking.co.uk or by post at:

    Appeals Service (Parking)
    PO Box 267
    Petersfield
    GU32 9FH

    You’ll be issued with a 10 digit verification code, which you must use with your appeal to the Appeals Service. This is shown at the top of your rejection letter. The Appeals Service process does not apply in Scotland or to PN’s (Penalty Notices) received at a railway station car park.
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Whatapain
    • By Whatapain 12th Jan 19, 9:31 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Whatapain
    The notice is from the firm who works for Indigo as it comes Our Client : Indigo Park solution UK limited. It is not sent to my address but to the leasing company who is the legal owner I guess so they clearly access DVLA database. Nonetheless I can not appeal as the owner.. as I am not. I am not even the keeper. Just aomeone who was driving the car, parkerd it, paid for parking and got 11 penalties as their own payment app does not show all the info they oblige you to enter to create/add a new vehicule..
    • Whatapain
    • By Whatapain 12th Jan 19, 9:37 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Whatapain
    In the rejection letter I have the ITAL reference but it does not say it does not apply to railway stations. I have asked for POPla Codes either way and they have not replied anyway.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Jan 19, 9:43 PM
    • 2,801 Posts
    • 3,490 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    In the rejection letter I have the ITAL reference but it does not say it does not apply to railway stations. I have asked for POPla Codes either way and they have not replied anyway.
    Originally posted by Whatapain
    Should you remain dissatisfied with this decision, or have additional evidence, you may further your appeal to the Appeals Service within 28 days of receiving your rejection letter. Appeals may be submitted online at www.asparking.co.uk or by post at:

    Appeals Service (Parking)
    PO Box 267
    Petersfield
    GU32 9FH

    You’ll be issued with a 10 digit verification code, which you must use with your appeal to the Appeals Service. This is shown at the top of your rejection letter. The Appeals Service process does not apply in Scotland or to PN’s (Penalty Notices) received at a railway station car park.

    you have a penalty notice , you also have a code for a company that do not accept appeals for penalty notices

    like I said earlier , could be fun
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Whatapain
    • By Whatapain 12th Jan 19, 9:46 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Whatapain
    Indeed! Sounds like a very badly organised gang who makes up rules as they go along!
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