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  • FIRST POST
    • lukesy123
    • By lukesy123 2nd Jan 19, 10:32 AM
    • 21Posts
    • 7Thanks
    lukesy123
    Parking solutions Limited- claim for over 700 !
    • #1
    • 2nd Jan 19, 10:32 AM
    Parking solutions Limited- claim for over 700 ! 2nd Jan 19 at 10:32 AM
    ***TOTAL PARKING SOLUTIONS LIMITED***

    Hello,

    I've only just come to find out about this forum and am seeking help with what is now claim against me for several PCN's. ( hopefully its not too late! )

    I have received a County Court claim form in the post after receiving 5 Private parking notices from Total Parking SolutionsLimiited - from the dates of 17/10/2017 to 13/12/2017.

    the form states a claim is being made against me for a total of 735.78. This breaks down to
    - "Amount claimed" 605.78
    - "Court fee" 60
    - "Legal representative costs" 70

    These parking notices were given to me in a Kingston university accommodation car park. I used the car park last year when i was studying at kingston college - at the time i believed the university and college were linked. some fellow students also used to park there and told me they had never had a problem. Obviously I continued to park there after the first notice was issued - i was led to believe nothing would happen.

    Over the course of around 14 months from receiving the first notice to writing this forum post, I received many letters from TPS asking for various amounts to be paid, then from BW LEGAL and now from the court.

    I took a visit to the car park recently and have realised all the signs are all new and now very different to when I parked there last year, making it difficult for me to mention this in my defence.

    I only recently found out about this forum and i fear it may be too late. I have followed the acknowledgement procedure and have until the 14th to submit my defence - This claim came to me over the Christmas period and i've been away making it very difficult to do anything.

    Can anybody guide me into writing a defence, over 700 seems like a ridiculous amount to pay for a car park that is almost always near empty.

    Thanks in advanced to any fellow users who may be able to help me and my case.
    Last edited by lukesy123; 02-01-2019 at 10:33 AM. Reason: Title update
Page 2
    • Redx
    • By Redx 3rd Jan 19, 5:48 PM
    • 21,798 Posts
    • 27,388 Thanks
    Redx
    generally speaking , they want too much data, data they are not entitled to under GDPR

    so the bare minimum is what you use, not all their nosey questions

    see this thread here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5849784

    you can give them the name , address , a suitable email for corresponding with , plus some form of proof of ID, this could be a pic of your DL, or Passport , or the MCOL form , or the V5C for example

    they have to know that you are you , by law (by that GDPR), before they release any data to you (it works both ways and the fines are serious money)

    I would not give out the following

    D.O.B.
    PHONE NUMBERS
    SHOE SIZE
    BANK CARD NUMBER
    PIN CODE
    MY MUMS MAIDEN NAME

    etc

    make your own mind up

    ps:- of course they read your posts, it would not be hard for them to match up what you are saying with the recent claims they issued, like on the DATE OF ISSUE, they may only have ONE , or half a dozen , etc

    this is why we tell people to use an anonymous name , like starship7 , and not to reveal any info like who was driving, it seems to fall on deaf ears as most people are on FBOOK and give out far too much info, to hackers, and to sc@mmers
    Last edited by Redx; 10-01-2019 at 3:58 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • lukesy123
    • By lukesy123 3rd Jan 19, 6:15 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    lukesy123
    of course, I cant remember who was driving
    • lukesy123
    • By lukesy123 3rd Jan 19, 6:18 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    lukesy123
    is their DPO right in refusing to give me certain parts of my SAR
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 3rd Jan 19, 6:35 PM
    • 13,590 Posts
    • 14,790 Thanks
    KeithP
    is their DPO right in refusing to give me certain parts of my SAR
    by anon
    If your Subject Access Request asked for non-personal data, then yes.

    Do the numbers in their reply refer to the numbers in post #7?

    For example, if you asked "3. Please provide me with evidence you have paid a debt collector / Legal representative.", then they can refuse to answer that as part of a SAR, as neither the question nor any possible answer contains any personal information.
    Last edited by KeithP; 03-01-2019 at 6:38 PM.
    .
    • lukesy123
    • By lukesy123 3rd Jan 19, 6:46 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    lukesy123
    yes it does refer to post #7.
    fair enough on that point. but how can they refuse to send me copies of all letters sent ... surely the letters contain my address on them so that counts as personal information.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 3rd Jan 19, 6:50 PM
    • 21,798 Posts
    • 27,388 Thanks
    Redx
    they should send you copies of the NTK etc that they sent you, especially if you asked for them in your SAR

    IF YOU DIDNT ASK FOR THEM , SEND A REPLY ASKING FOR THEM

    you appear to have asked for them in point #5 in the first section , so they should have included them , they are the "relevant authority" , they issued them

    they are talking about point 5 in the second section in their reply
    Last edited by Redx; 03-01-2019 at 6:55 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • lukesy123
    • By lukesy123 3rd Jan 19, 6:54 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    lukesy123
    on another point, I have realised all the signs are different in this car park now, so how can I draft defence without seeing the old signs - as they are rightly refusing to send this to me as it doesn't contain any personal information.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 3rd Jan 19, 6:57 PM
    • 21,798 Posts
    • 27,388 Thanks
    Redx
    you will have to bring it up in your defence so you can talk about it later in your WS and skelly and possibly when you see their evidence

    as its not about you and your data, its the evidence stage that means you can insist it is provided for the judge to see in court, and for you to comment on

    prior to GDPR you didnt see anything until the WS and evidence stage, with little time to prepare

    by asking for it now under the PaP oct 2017 rules, you can tell the court they have failed to provide the info and so you cannot act on it


    this "game" you are in has nothing to do with parking , its about the civil court MCOL claim system and they are playing it like concert pianists, whereas you cannot find the C note. they have hooked their fish and are playing it on the end of the line , giving a bit , taking a bit , and setting the hook ready for the gaff later on
    Last edited by Redx; 03-01-2019 at 7:01 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 3rd Jan 19, 7:30 PM
    • 13,590 Posts
    • 14,790 Thanks
    KeithP
    on another point, I have realised all the signs are different in this car park now, so how can I draft defence without seeing the old signs - as they are rightly refusing to send this to me as it doesn't contain any personal information.
    Originally posted by anon
    Why not ask them to send you pictures of the signs as they were on the day in question?

    They are only 'right' because you asked them that question as part of a Data Subject Access Request.
    .
    • lukesy123
    • By lukesy123 10th Jan 19, 10:21 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    lukesy123
    defence draft - please have a look guys
    1.1. The Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of vehicle registration number XXXXXXX on the material date.
    1.2. The Defendant denies that the original Claim by the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all and should thus be dismissed.
    1.3. The Particulars of Claim state that the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply ordering the PCN Sum to be paid within a set time period. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5. Further, the particulars of the claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached.
    1.4. The Particulars of Claim fail to state that the Defendant is the Registered keeper / Driver of the Vehicle XXXXXXX, rendering it unclear what legal basis this claim is brought to the Defendant.
    1.5. Due to the sparseness of the Particulars of Claim, it is also unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct.
    1.6. Further and in the alternative, it is denied that the claimant's signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them.
    1.7. The terms on the Claimant's signage are also displayed in a font which is too small to be read from a passing vehicle, and are in such a position that anyone attempting to read the tiny font would be unable to do so easily. It is, therefore, denied that the Claimant's signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract.
    1.8. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation. As a third party agent, the Claimant may not pursue any charge, unless specifically authorised by the principal. The Defendant has the reasonable belief that the Claimant does not have the authority to issue charges on this land in their own name, and that they have no right to bring any action regarding this claim.
    1.9. The Claimants solicitors; BW Legal, are known to be a serial issuer of generic claims similar to this one, with no due diligence, no scrutiny of details nor even checking for a true cause of action. HMCS have identified over 100 similar poorly produced claims and the solicitor's conduct in many of these cases is believed to go against Public Interest.
    1.10. The Defendant believes the term for such conduct is Robo-claims which as previously stated is against the public interest It also demonstrates a disregard for the dignity of the court and is unfair on unrepresented consumers.
    1.11. The Defendant has reason to believe that this is a claim that will proceed without any facts or evidence supplied until the last possible minute, to his significant detriment as an unrepresented Defendant.
    1.12. The Claimant has produced no evidence as to who parked the vehicle. Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 there is no presumption in law as to who parked a vehicle on private land nor does there exist any obligation for a keeper to name a driver. I choose to defend this claim as the registered keeper, as is my right.
    1.13. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper. The Particulars of Claim state the sum of 375 being moneys due from the defendant to the claimant in respect of multiple Parking charge Notices (PCN's) and The claimant also claims 200 contractual costs pursuant to the PCN Terms and conditions. Given that 5 PCNs were issued, each one amounts to a cost of 75 with a total of 375, The claim amounts to 605.78 (not including Court Costs and Legal Fees) - The Defendant believes this is a clear attempt at Artificial Inflation for Over-recovery and as stated before, no legally binding contract was entered, so the Defendant invites the Court to dismiss this claim.
    1.14. The defendant denies the claim in its entirety voiding any liability to the claimant for all amounts claimed due to the aforementioned reasons. It is submitted that the conduct of the Claimant is wholly unreasonable and vexatious. As such, the Defendant is keeping a note of my wasted time/costs in dealing with this matter.
    1.15. In summary, it is the Defendant's position that the claim discloses no cause of action, is without merit, and has no real prospect of success. Accordingly, the Court is invited to strike out the claim of its own initiative, using its case management powers pursuant to CPR 3.4.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jan 19, 2:46 PM
    • 68,527 Posts
    • 80,756 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The numbering makes no sense, so just use 1, 2, 3, etc.

    You need a Statement of Truth at the end, and a signature & date.

    Lots of repetition in the version you've used and it doesn't give any facts:
    1.4. The Particulars of Claim fail to state that the Defendant is the Registered keeper / Driver of the Vehicle XXXXXXX, rendering it unclear what legal basis this claim is brought to the Defendant.
    1.5. Due to the sparseness of the Particulars of Claim, it is also unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought,
    I would start again, using bargepole's concise defence template from the NEWBIES thread which is so much easier to comment on and for you to adapt with a piece about the facts of the case and what the defence actually is about.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • lukesy123
    • By lukesy123 10th Jan 19, 7:36 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    lukesy123
    Ok I remove the repetition - thanks for that tip ... I can see what you mean.

    These are facts ? Otherwise I’m not sure what else I can add
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jan 19, 11:06 PM
    • 68,527 Posts
    • 80,756 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Don't use that template at all. Have a look at bargepole's one in the NEWBIES thread post #2.and you will see how much easier it is to read and the facts flow in a more structured but concise way than your one.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 12-01-2019 at 12:42 AM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • lukesy123
    • By lukesy123 11th Jan 19, 7:21 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    lukesy123
    IN THE COUNTY COURT

    CLAIM No: XXXXX

    BETWEEN:

    TOTAL PARKING SOLUTIONSLIMITED (Claimant)

    -and-

    XXXXX (Defendant)

    ________________________________________
    DEFENCE
    ________________________________________

    1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

    2. The Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of vehicle registration number XXXXX on the material date(s).

    3. The Particulars of Claim state that the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply ordering the PCN Sum to be paid within a set time period. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5. Further, the particulars of the claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached.

    4. Due to the sparseness of the particulars, it is unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct.

    5. Further and in the alternative, it is denied that the claimant's signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them.

    6. The terms on the Claimant's signage are also displayed in a font which is too small to be read from a passing vehicle; and is in such a position that anyone attempting to read the tiny font would be unable to do so easily. It is, therefore, denied that the Claimant's signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract.

    7. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.

    8. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case 75 per PCN. The claim includes an additional 200, for which no calculation or explanation is given, and which appears to be an attempt at artificial inflation leading to double recovery.

    9. The Defendant believes that this is a claim that will proceed without any
    facts or evidence supplied until the last possible minute, to his significant detriment as an unrepresented Defendant.

    10. The Claimant has produced no evidence as to who parked the vehicle. Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 there is no presumption in law as to who parked a vehicle on private land.

    11. In summary, it is the Defendant's position that the claim discloses no cause of action, is without merit, and has no real prospect of success. Accordingly, the Court is invited to strike out the claim of its own initiative, using its case management powers pursuant to CPR 3.4.




    I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.


    Name:

    XXXXX

    Signature:

    XXXXX

    Date:

    XXXXX
    • LoneStarState
    • By LoneStarState 11th Jan 19, 11:42 AM
    • 60 Posts
    • 105 Thanks
    LoneStarState
    Lukesy123

    That defence states you were both keeper and driver (and was also the case in your earlier draft defence) and yet in an earlier post, you've stated you don't remember who was driving. Might want to reconsider what's been put if you've taken a template and modified. If you were the driver at the material time and it doesn't hamper your defence in any way then so be it but just wanted you to be aware of what you put.
    • lukesy123
    • By lukesy123 13th Jan 19, 9:10 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    lukesy123
    AMENDED ... will email it to them in the morn
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jan 19, 9:37 PM
    • 21,798 Posts
    • 27,388 Thanks
    Redx
    dont forget to sign and date it like post #10 tells you to


    unsigned would be a waste of time and energy
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • lukesy123
    • By lukesy123 12th Feb 19, 6:43 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    lukesy123
    Ok now I’ve received a questionaire in the post along with a small paragraph from the court confirming they received my defence
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 12th Feb 19, 9:36 AM
    • 4,310 Posts
    • 3,442 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    That's your DQ, check NEWBIE post # 2 for how to complete it.
    • lukesy123
    • By lukesy123 13th Feb 19, 7:20 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    lukesy123
    Ok, will fill out and update the thread accordingly ... thanks !
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