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  • FIRST POST
    • cmonbris
    • By cmonbris 1st Jan 19, 8:57 PM
    • 19Posts
    • 5Thanks
    cmonbris
    Letter of Claim
    • #1
    • 1st Jan 19, 8:57 PM
    Letter of Claim 1st Jan 19 at 8:57 PM
    I have read through the newbiez thread, and apologies if I have missed it, but please can someone confirm whether Letter Before Claim and Letter Of Claim are the same thing?

    My son has a letter OF claim from bw legal and I am trying to help him. It was received 17.12.18 with a response date of 19.1.19.

    It involves a fluttering ticket, which he is still in posession of, KBT Cornwall Ltd.

    Many thanks.
Page 1
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 1st Jan 19, 9:00 PM
    • 14,727 Posts
    • 16,917 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #2
    • 1st Jan 19, 9:00 PM
    • #2
    • 1st Jan 19, 9:00 PM
    Letter Before Claim and Letter Of Claim are the same thing.
    .
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 1st Jan 19, 9:01 PM
    • 23,378 Posts
    • 37,254 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #3
    • 1st Jan 19, 9:01 PM
    • #3
    • 1st Jan 19, 9:01 PM
    My son has a letter OF claim from bw legal and I am trying to help him. It was received 17.12.18 with a response date of 19.1.19.
    It's best if he comes here himself.

    A 30-day for response, so a formal LBC (short of us seeing the actual document).
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • cmonbris
    • By cmonbris 1st Jan 19, 9:10 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    cmonbris
    • #4
    • 1st Jan 19, 9:10 PM
    • #4
    • 1st Jan 19, 9:10 PM
    Unfortunately, he is going on holiday 3/1/19 returning 17/1/19.
    I am happy to do all I can to help him... and hopefully keep him up to speed through watts app and email ��
    • cmonbris
    • By cmonbris 1st Jan 19, 9:11 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    cmonbris
    • #5
    • 1st Jan 19, 9:11 PM
    • #5
    • 1st Jan 19, 9:11 PM
    He's at work tomorrow. I was going to try to put the SAR together for him before he flies out early Thursday morning, which would buy him more time.
    • cmonbris
    • By cmonbris 1st Jan 19, 9:13 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    cmonbris
    • #6
    • 1st Jan 19, 9:13 PM
    • #6
    • 1st Jan 19, 9:13 PM
    If i can work out how to attach document, would that help?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 1st Jan 19, 10:14 PM
    • 22,461 Posts
    • 28,477 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 1st Jan 19, 10:14 PM
    • #7
    • 1st Jan 19, 10:14 PM
    no, because you cannot attach documents on here


    copy and paste it from notepad
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Jetslick
    • By Jetslick 1st Jan 19, 11:48 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 99 Thanks
    Jetslick
    • #8
    • 1st Jan 19, 11:48 PM
    • #8
    • 1st Jan 19, 11:48 PM
    Get the SAR sent to the PPC. Once your son submits a SAR it is important and beneficial for him to then send a simple email to BW Legal informing them that he has sent their client a Subject Access Request (SAR), by email, directly to their data protection team. As they will be aware, he is legally entitled under data protection law to request the data relating to himself. Then, as he will still be awaiting their response for his SAR (for which the PPC have one calendar month to respond.) inform BW Legal, that under these circumstances, he requires a restriction of data processing and that the case should be put 'on hold'.

    If accepted, this should bide you more time for you to gather the evidence required to draft a defence for which the forum will help you with. If a restriction on data processing is refused, then let us know as this is unacceptable and you will then need to complain to the ICO (like I recently did).
    • cmonbris
    • By cmonbris 2nd Jan 19, 10:14 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    cmonbris
    • #9
    • 2nd Jan 19, 10:14 AM
    • #9
    • 2nd Jan 19, 10:14 AM
    Many thanks to everyone for their help. FI I have included a copy of the letter below.


    I will now complete the SAR and run it by my son when he gets home from work late this evening! I am very much of the opinion of involving our MP as, previously, I have found their help supportive and in light of recent (ish) parliamentary dscussions around paeking fines etc, feel it would be benficial to one and all.


    Is this a good time to involve the MP or should it be done at a later stage?



    Our Client: KBT Cornwall Ltd t/a Armtrac Security

    Account Number:
    Date of Contravention: July 2018
    Balance Due: 160.00
    Vehicle Registration:
    Contravention Description: Ticket incorrectly displayed face down
    Contravention Location:

    We have been instructed by KBT Cornwall Ltd t/a Armtrac Security to commence legal action in the form of issuing a Claim against you in the County Court in respect of the above debt. If payment or a response is not received before 19 January 2019, we are instructed to issue a Claim against you in the County Court without further notice. If you dispute this debt, please tell us why so that we can help resolve this matter.

    Estimated Claim
    Such legal action may result in you being liable for court fees, solicitors' costs and statutory interest which are estimated below.

    Enclosures
    Enclosed with this letter are:
    • Information Sheet a sheet explaining what to do next, including how to avoid Court action
    • Reply Form: a form to complete and return containing four sections.
    • Income and Expenditure Form: a form to complete and return to outline your financial circumstances.

    Principal Debt+ Initial Legal Costs 160.00
    Estimated Interest 3.55
    Estimated Court Fees 25.00
    Estimated Solicitors' Costs 50.00
    Estimated Total 238.55

    What You Need To Do Now
    Payment of 160.00 or your reasons for non payment are required by 19th January 2019 to avoid the above legal action. If you are unable to pay the Balance in full, Our Client is willing to enter into a payment arrangement which is affordable for you taking into account your financial circumstances.

    How to get in touch
    Online - Manage your account at (amended as cannot post with links) bwlegal.co.uk. you can complete the reply form and your income and expenditure online, make a payment, set up an affordable payment arrangement and speak to us by webchat.

    Speak to us or email us - Call us today on 0113 323 4479 or email us at (amended as cannot post with links) bwlegal.co.uk to discuss this matter with one of our helpful team.

    By post- Complete and return the attached Reply Form to us at the address at the foot of this letter by I9 January 2019.

    Statement of Account
    The following summary statement shows the transactions applied to your account since the PCN was issued by Our Client:
    statement For the Period: July 2018 to December 2018
    Principal Balance 100.00
    total Payments 0.00
    total Adjustments 0.00
    total Interest 0.00
    total Debt Recovery Costs 60.00
    Current Balance 160.00

    Our Client's entitlement to the total Debt Recovery Costs referred to in the table above is expressed in the Terms and Conditions, which you accepted upon entering the Site. Such costs are recoverable in any event under the relevant Parking Code(s) of Practice.

    Warning of Court Proceedings
    lf payment or a response is not received from you by 19th January 2019 we are instructed to issue a County Court Claim without further reference to you, together with applying the interest, fees and costs highlighted on the previous page.

    If payment or a response is not received following a County Court Claim, a County Court Judgment ("CCJ") may be entered against you. lf a CCJ were to be entered, it would be recorded on your credit file for 6 years unless you pay the Judgment debt in full within a month of the CCJ being entered. A CCJ on your credit file may affect your ability to obtain future credit.

    If a CCJ were to be entered and you were to fail to comply with the CCJ order, we may apply to the County Court to take further enforcement action which you would be notified of separately.

    We look forward to hearing from you.
    Our helpful team would like to work with you to reach a solution without the need for court proceedings to be issued and it is therefore important that you get in touch before 19 January 2019.

    Yours faithfully

    BW Legal
    Last edited by cmonbris; 02-01-2019 at 10:16 AM. Reason: Typos!
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 2nd Jan 19, 11:16 AM
    • 13,040 Posts
    • 13,358 Thanks
    The Deep
    Fluttering ticket PCNs are invariably a scam, they could so easily be avoided by putting glue of the back. They are certainly not a breach of contract worthy of a judge awarding them 100 damages imo, how have the PPC been damaged?

    IMO they will lose hands down in court. Take the matter up with your MP and read up on CPR27.14(2)(g) costs for unreasonable behaviour.

    It is the will of Parliament that these scammers be put out of business.

    Hopefully that will take place in the near future. The Bill has passed through the HOC without hitch, and goes to the Lords soon. In the meantime involve your MP, the poor dears are buckling under the weight of complaints about these scammers. Read this one which I wrote earlier

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

    Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Third Reading in late November, and, with a fair wind, will become Law next year.

    All three readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 6-7 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.
    Last edited by The Deep; 02-01-2019 at 11:21 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • cmonbris
    • By cmonbris 4th Jan 19, 3:12 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    cmonbris
    "if the car park was Pay and Display, ALWAYS ALWAYS ask for a PDT machine record from that day, of payments made (VRNs can be partially redacted but insist on getting this and follow it up if they refuse). You want the PDT machine record if it;s an PDT machine car park"


    I'm just finishing the SAR - Ive looked in the acronyms but couldnt find PDT. This was Pay and Display. Are all Pay and Dislays PDTs?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 4th Jan 19, 4:13 PM
    • 14,727 Posts
    • 16,917 Thanks
    KeithP
    PDT = Pay and Display Ticket.
    .
    • cmonbris
    • By cmonbris 5th Jan 19, 8:20 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    cmonbris
    Thanks Keith - not Pacific Daylight Time then!

    Now to complete SAR and letter to MP (hope he can find time for my letter amidst Brexit!)
    • cmonbris
    • By cmonbris 9th Jan 19, 11:54 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    cmonbris
    I received a response to the SAR

    Regarding the request for the PDT machine record from the day in question, of payments made.

    The response I have received is:

    This information will not be supplied – we do not have this information. Pay & Display machines at this site are not owned by Armtrac security services.

    Please advise whether/how I should pursue this further and, also, whether the NTK shoukd follow a specific format?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Jan 19, 11:15 PM
    • 72,078 Posts
    • 84,429 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Only if your case hinges on using the PDT machine records, to prove payment was made (not needed if you have the PDT).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • cmonbris
    • By cmonbris 16th May 19, 7:56 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    cmonbris
    I have received now received a claim form (small claims court) and, having read the thread to remind myself of procedures, it seems I first have to return the Acknowledgement of service and then put the defence together.


    I've not been able to see a thread that is supportive with defence with 'fluttering ticket', I wold be grateful if someone was able to point me in the direction of one if I have missed it.


    I have also received a response from my MP who makes reference to the Parking (Code of Practice) Act but suggests I seek professional legal advice "to assess whether I have strong enough grounds".


    So - Acknowledgement of service letter in the post and I am endeavouring to put together the Defence statement and would be grateful for any suitable links.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th May 19, 8:36 PM
    • 72,078 Posts
    • 84,429 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Try searching the forum for something like 'defence ticket dashboard'.

    Or even 'Armtrac claim' (we have loads of them and lots are about this issue!).

    What's the issued date of the claim?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • cmonbris
    • By cmonbris 16th May 19, 8:44 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    cmonbris
    Thank you Coupon -Mad. My computer literacy is not brilliant! I was trying to search for fluttering but must have been doing something wrong as it brought back ' no searches'. I also wondered if there was a way / need to change title of thread as this is now Small Claim Court
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th May 19, 8:55 PM
    • 14,727 Posts
    • 16,917 Thanks
    KeithP
    As Coupon-mad asked:
    What's the issued date of the claim?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th May 19, 8:56 PM
    • 72,078 Posts
    • 84,429 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You can't edit on a phone, but can do ADVANCED EDIT on a PC or laptop (under the post you want to edit) and then you will be able to edit the title.

    Sometimes that's not possible, if the post is too old, but try it.


    HOW TO USE THE FORUM SEARCH FUNCTION:

    Hit your 'Back' button to get back to the forum thread list. Or us FORUM JUMP which appear twice, top & bottom, on the right of EVERY page.

    On the bar just above the threads you'll see the 'Search' function (not the box at the top of the page, you are not searching the whole of MSE).

    Click on the 'Advanced Search' button and on the following page place your keyword(s) in the 'Search By Keyword(s)' and make sure the 'Show Results As' button (at the foot of the window) is changed from 'Threads' to 'Posts'.

    Now try your search term.

    Now try the other two I suggested.

    ALWAYS search for POSTS, never 'threads'.

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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