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  • FIRST POST
    • ThisSucks
    • By ThisSucks 29th Dec 18, 6:14 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 16Thanks
    ThisSucks
    Urgently need advice. Considering suicide :(
    • #1
    • 29th Dec 18, 6:14 PM
    Urgently need advice. Considering suicide :( 29th Dec 18 at 6:14 PM
    Following serious mental health issues that have had me in and out of hospital for the past year, I fell into serious rental arrears. My partner left me facing the entire rent alone and without an income.
    Fast-forward.... I was just starting to get back on my feet in terms of my health. Moved into a new, affordable property. My support worker had been helping me come up with a repayment plan for the rental arrears on the old place. Now received a "Statutory Demand" from the property company at the old place telling me they are applying to make me bankrupt.

    I know absolutely nothing about bankruptcy. Can anyone let me know how it would affect my life and what I should do next?

    I'm on virtually no income at all....as I am still not well enough to go back to my old job. I can only just barely afford to eat and keep utilities on. I don't own a car, property or any assets.

    What would anyone advise doing next? The amount owed is around £7,000.

    If I am made bankrupt, will they take the clothes off my back?

    How would an IVA differ and would that be something I could request instead?
Page 2
    • maxmycardagain
    • By maxmycardagain 6th Jan 19, 6:51 PM
    • 4,730 Posts
    • 3,757 Thanks
    maxmycardagain
    Now received a "Statutory Demand" from the property company at the old place telling me they are applying to make me bankrupt.
    ho ho ho, as if that will get them any money (though it will save you £680 fees....)

    frankly that makes lemmings look sane

    its all bluff
    Dont worry, be happy
    • maxmycardagain
    • By maxmycardagain 6th Jan 19, 6:52 PM
    • 4,730 Posts
    • 3,757 Thanks
    maxmycardagain
    It is a letter from a process server saying that he has tried to deliver a Statutory Demand and failed and that he's coming back on such and such a date
    Originally posted by ThisSucks
    be out
    Dont worry, be happy
    • ThisSucks
    • By ThisSucks 11th Jan 19, 4:01 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ThisSucks
    Hi all, just an update. The process server is due to serve the Statutory Demand next week. He's said that if I'm not in the company pursuing me will just enter my building and drop it in my letter box.

    Anyway, I've reached out to the property company and to the property company's solicitors with offers to enter into a repayment plan immediately, and explaining my situation, that I have no assets etc. They just completely ignore me.

    StepChange have accepted me for a Debt Management Plan which they can have up and running early February.

    As part of re-building my life I've been accepted to return to university part-time to qualify as a solicitor. I'm pretty sure that being made bankrupt will put an end to that. So sad.

    It seems the property company are determined to bankrupt me. StepChange said in total it will cost the property company around £4000 to make me bankrupt and having assessed my income and expenditure StepChange say at present I only have £10 per month disposable cash left. So, at most, that is all the property company would get off me if they bankrupt me and then after 12 months I'd be discharged.

    Very weird. It would actually serve me financially to just let them do it. But it would also completely ruin my future career and I'd have to let go of my place at university.
    • Willing2Learn
    • By Willing2Learn 11th Jan 19, 4:10 PM
    • 1,978 Posts
    • 1,539 Thanks
    Willing2Learn
    When you are at university, you can use Student Support Services to access mental health support and counselling to help make university a relatively stress-free, enjoyable and enriching environment for you.
    I work within the voluntary sector, supporting vulnerable people to rebuild their lives.

    I love my job

    • ThisSucks
    • By ThisSucks 11th Jan 19, 4:13 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ThisSucks
    Not sure you understood my last post. I am going back to university to obtain a law qualification and train as a solicitor. If I am made bankrupt I am not permitted to work as a solicitor and thus there's no point going to university.

    I already have access to therapy and other psychiatric support.

    When you are at university, you can use Student Support Services to access mental health support and counselling to help make university a relatively stress-free, enjoyable and enriching environment for you.
    Originally posted by Willing2Learn
    • Willing2Learn
    • By Willing2Learn 11th Jan 19, 4:18 PM
    • 1,978 Posts
    • 1,539 Thanks
    Willing2Learn
    A Law degree is so much more than just a pathway to being a solicitor. Having a law degree would open so many doors for you, that the possibilities could be quite overwhelming. A law degree is a stepping stone to a wide variety of career options

    The glass is always half full
    I work within the voluntary sector, supporting vulnerable people to rebuild their lives.

    I love my job

    • ThisSucks
    • By ThisSucks 11th Jan 19, 5:08 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ThisSucks
    I already have a PPE degree (Philosophy, Politics & Economics) I wouldn't be returning to university for a law degree, but rather to do a conversion course that would allow me to use the degree I already have to go on to train as a solicitor.

    Like I said, it looks like bankruptcy would prevent me from being able to work in that profession. I'm not really understanding your replies to be honest.

    A Law degree is so much more than just a pathway to being a solicitor. Having a law degree would open so many doors for you, that the possibilities could be quite overwhelming. A law degree is a stepping stone to a wide variety of career options

    The glass is always half full
    Originally posted by Willing2Learn
    • John G Jones
    • By John G Jones 12th Jan 19, 7:20 AM
    • 103 Posts
    • 161 Thanks
    John G Jones
    Very weird. It would actually serve me financially to just let them do it. But it would also completely ruin my future career and I'd have to let go of my place at university.
    Originally posted by ThisSucks
    There are at least a couple of reasons why they would press ahead.

    One is that many people who claim to have no assets or slack in their SOA actually do have a bit (as shown by many of the SOAs posted on the site) and so when presented with bankruptcy manage to find enough for a repayment plan.

    The other reason is that no-one would believe that the threat was real if they backed off at the eleventh hour.

    Itís not personal, or vindictive, itís their last-ditch attempt to recover what they are owed so yes, if you cannot pay then Iím afraid that the law career and several others may be off the cards.
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 12th Jan 19, 2:53 PM
    • 13,235 Posts
    • 10,292 Thanks
    fatbelly
    It seems the property company are determined to bankrupt me. StepChange said in total it will cost the property company around £4000 to make me bankrupt and having assessed my income and expenditure StepChange say at present I only have £10 per month disposable cash left. So, at most, that is all the property company would get off me if they bankrupt me and then after 12 months I'd be discharged.
    Originally posted by ThisSucks
    Income Payment Orders have a minimum of £20 per month so they would get nothing.
    • ThisSucks
    • By ThisSucks 12th Jan 19, 3:00 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ThisSucks
    The Citizens Advice Bureau and Step Change seem to have a very different opinion from yours. They've pointed out that the property company will simply want to recoup as much of the money that's owed as possible. Making me bankrupt would cost them around £4,000 all in, including their legal fees. While technically I would be liable for some of those costs myself, I simply do not have any assets or disposable income. They've said no lawyer worth their salt would advise the property company to go ahead with bankruptcy unless they were 100% sure I owned significant assets or had a job where some of the salary could be taken.
    Since neither of these situations apply to me, the property company would be taking themselves from a situation where they are £7000 out of pocket, to a situation where they are £11,000 + out of pocket.
    Also, given that I actually used to live in a property owned by them, they were fully aware of my declining health and personal situation. I lived there for quite a while and was always a good payer with no issues at all, until my circumstances took such a change for the worst.
    Common sense should show that I'm not just an !!!!!!! who felt like living rent-free.

    There are at least a couple of reasons why they would press ahead.

    One is that many people who claim to have no assets or slack in their SOA actually do have a bit (as shown by many of the SOAs posted on the site) and so when presented with bankruptcy manage to find enough for a repayment plan.

    The other reason is that no-one would believe that the threat was real if they backed off at the eleventh hour.

    Itís not personal, or vindictive, itís their last-ditch attempt to recover what they are owed so yes, if you cannot pay then Iím afraid that the law career and several others may be off the cards.
    Originally posted by John G Jones
    • ThisSucks
    • By ThisSucks 12th Jan 19, 3:02 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ThisSucks
    So it's difficult to see how the property company would benefit from this at all then?
    They are extremely unpleasant people but even so, I'm not sure they'd choose bankruptcy just out of pure spite. They must imagine this benefits them in some way?

    Income Payment Orders have a minimum of £20 per month so they would get nothing.
    Originally posted by fatbelly
    • elsien
    • By elsien 12th Jan 19, 3:10 PM
    • 18,098 Posts
    • 46,145 Thanks
    elsien
    SRA handbook:

    5.2
    If you have been declared bankrupt, entered into any individual voluntary arrangements (IVA) or have had a County Court Judgment issued against you it will raise a presumption that there has been evidence that you cannot manage your finances properly and carefully.

    Guidance note

    (i)
    The following might help to establish confidence in your ability to run your business/carry out your role in the business effectively and in accordance with proper governance and sound financial and risk management principles:

    (a)
    the bankruptcy/IVA/County Court Judgment occurred many years ago and there is evidence of subsequent sound financial management and conduct to show that creditors have been repaid;

    (b)
    you were affected by exceptional circumstances beyond your control which you could not have reasonably foreseen.


    Any chance of appealing on those grounds, if it comes to it?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • ThisSucks
    • By ThisSucks 12th Jan 19, 3:18 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ThisSucks
    Looks like that would be a possibility.

    I'll still try my best to prevent this becoming a bankruptcy though -

    SRA handbook:

    5.2
    If you have been declared bankrupt, entered into any individual voluntary arrangements (IVA) or have had a County Court Judgment issued against you it will raise a presumption that there has been evidence that you cannot manage your finances properly and carefully.

    Guidance note

    (i)
    The following might help to establish confidence in your ability to run your business/carry out your role in the business effectively and in accordance with proper governance and sound financial and risk management principles:

    (a)
    the bankruptcy/IVA/County Court Judgment occurred many years ago and there is evidence of subsequent sound financial management and conduct to show that creditors have been repaid;

    (b)
    you were affected by exceptional circumstances beyond your control which you could not have reasonably foreseen.


    Any chance of appealing on those grounds, if it comes to it?
    Originally posted by elsien
    • John G Jones
    • By John G Jones 12th Jan 19, 3:47 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 161 Thanks
    John G Jones
    The Citizens Advice Bureau and Step Change seem to have a very different opinion from yours. They've pointed out that the property company will simply want to recoup as much of the money that's owed as possible. Making me bankrupt would cost them around £4,000 all in, including their legal fees. While technically I would be liable for some of those costs myself, I simply do not have any assets or disposable income. They've said no lawyer worth their salt would advise the property company to go ahead with bankruptcy unless they were 100% sure I owned significant assets or had a job where some of the salary could be taken.
    Since neither of these situations apply to me, the property company would be taking themselves from a situation where they are £7000 out of pocket, to a situation where they are £11,000 + out of pocket.
    Also, given that I actually used to live in a property owned by them, they were fully aware of my declining health and personal situation. I lived there for quite a while and was always a good payer with no issues at all, until my circumstances took such a change for the worst.
    Common sense should show that I'm not just an !!!!!!! who felt like living rent-free.
    Originally posted by ThisSucks
    Yes, a volunteer in CAB probably does have a different opinion to someone working in finance. While they mean well they are often not the best informed or most qualified.

    Itís the same case with step change.

    Why does their reasoning matter to you anyway? Iíve given you a clear reason why they may go ahead. Iíve actually given you two.

    If you genuinely are in serious trouble with debts then I donít see that going to university is likely to be possible or sensible for a while.

    Leaving aside the work that you canít do, what work do you think that you could manage? Warehouse work, bar work, serving in a shop, delivery driving?

    You need to find something that you can manage to see if you can avoid bankruptcy, while continuing to work with your support network to sort out your health issues.
    • John G Jones
    • By John G Jones 12th Jan 19, 3:49 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 161 Thanks
    John G Jones
    So it's difficult to see how the property company would benefit from this at all then?
    They are extremely unpleasant people but even so, I'm not sure they'd choose bankruptcy just out of pure spite. They must imagine this benefits them in some way?
    Originally posted by ThisSucks
    How are they unpleasant? They just want to get what they are owed.

    I think that it is not helping you, personalising it in this way, making it seem that they are out to harm you. They really wonít be, they want to recover the money you owe them, nothing more.

    I think that if you understand this it will help, as at the moment you feel as though they are picking on you.

    I wish you well.
    • SusieT
    • By SusieT 12th Jan 19, 3:58 PM
    • 286 Posts
    • 407 Thanks
    SusieT
    It may well be worth you getting citizens advice, or if you can afford it a solicitor to write to them and you keep a copy of a letter stating that as they are aware you got into arrears not because you did not want to pay or because you could not manage your money, but because of your partner leaving, your health and being in and out of hospital, that your case worker was helping set up a plan etc. Also that you are intending to attend university in order to become and work as a solicitor, doing this would enable you to enter into a repayment agreement with them. If they make you bankrupt they would lose all the fees and the amount owing as you have no property that could be sold, and you are living on benefits.
    By doing that you may well be able to argue against the bankruptcy with the court, and if they did go ahead you would have evidence for the SRA that you had tried everything to fight it, and that you had fully intended to pay it back, so there may still be a way to become a solicitor.
    Credit card debt - NIL
    Home improvement loans 41,000 now 30,130 26% paid original finish dates 2025 and 2027
    Mortgage 100,000 now 64,513 35% paid
    • ThisSucks
    • By ThisSucks 12th Jan 19, 4:04 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ThisSucks
    This is all very sound advice. Thank you.

    It may well be worth you getting citizens advice, or if you can afford it a solicitor to write to them and you keep a copy of a letter stating that as they are aware you got into arrears not because you did not want to pay or because you could not manage your money, but because of your partner leaving, your health and being in and out of hospital, that your case worker was helping set up a plan etc. Also that you are intending to attend university in order to become and work as a solicitor, doing this would enable you to enter into a repayment agreement with them. If they make you bankrupt they would lose all the fees and the amount owing as you have no property that could be sold, and you are living on benefits.
    By doing that you may well be able to argue against the bankruptcy with the court, and if they did go ahead you would have evidence for the SRA that you had tried everything to fight it, and that you had fully intended to pay it back, so there may still be a way to become a solicitor.
    Originally posted by SusieT
    • ThisSucks
    • By ThisSucks 12th Jan 19, 4:07 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ThisSucks
    I said that the property company consists of a number of very unpleasant people, not that pursuing a debt that's owed makes a person unpleasant.

    I lived in property owned by this company for a number of years and have witnessed the way they treat tenants, run their company etc over the years, so I'm quite well placed to judge what sort of people they are. Way before I fell into hardship, back when my rent was always paid on time or even early, I would still have described the people running this company as deeply unpleasant....

    I'm sure (or at least I presume) that you are trying to help but unfortunately your posts come across as missing the point for the most part.

    How are they unpleasant? They just want to get what they are owed.

    I think that it is not helping you, personalising it in this way, making it seem that they are out to harm you. They really wonít be, they want to recover the money you owe them, nothing more.

    I think that if you understand this it will help, as at the moment you feel as though they are picking on you.

    I wish you well.
    Originally posted by John G Jones
    • ThisSucks
    • By ThisSucks 12th Jan 19, 4:12 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ThisSucks
    Forgot to add, I've spoken to Citizens Advice, who referred me to their specialist debt team.
    Their view is that I should continue with the Debt Management Plan StepChange has accepted me into

    It may well be worth you getting citizens advice, or if you can afford it a solicitor to write to them and you keep a copy of a letter stating that as they are aware you got into arrears not because you did not want to pay or because you could not manage your money, but because of your partner leaving, your health and being in and out of hospital, that your case worker was helping set up a plan etc. Also that you are intending to attend university in order to become and work as a solicitor, doing this would enable you to enter into a repayment agreement with them. If they make you bankrupt they would lose all the fees and the amount owing as you have no property that could be sold, and you are living on benefits.
    By doing that you may well be able to argue against the bankruptcy with the court, and if they did go ahead you would have evidence for the SRA that you had tried everything to fight it, and that you had fully intended to pay it back, so there may still be a way to become a solicitor.
    Originally posted by SusieT
    • elsien
    • By elsien 12th Jan 19, 10:39 PM
    • 18,098 Posts
    • 46,145 Thanks
    elsien
    Jeez.

    Find a fee paying company to rip you off, then emigrate.
    Interesting perspective.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
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